Best Scottish University?
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Original post by alexs2602
If you had read my other posts you'd have seen that I meant for the old fee system which applies to me, which is a disgrace because £3.3k pa is an absolute bargain. Cheaper than your living costs. I also said that the new fees are a bit more dodgy.
Well congratulations for you, but I don't really see what is to be gained by giving advice based on outdated circumstances? In today's environment, university costs £9k a year. Anything before that is irrelevant.
And 27 to 36? A lot of people do a 3 year course, I'm doing a 4 year but I'm in the minority so 27 really. Don't apply your silly 4 year structure to us automatically
In many professions, eg most types of Engineering, doing an intergrated Masters is pretty much essential so you can become chartered; otherwise you have to waste much more time post-uni to qualify for chartership. In the two professions I'm most interested in, ChemEng and Acturial work, doing a masters would be very much preferred. Not to mention the even longer courses for medicine, vet and architecture.
Please, ranking tables are notoriously wrong. St Andrews 3rd? Gimme a break. It goes Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick, Imperial, Bristol. That top 5 is pretty much undisputed. Then it tends to go Bath, Durham, UCL which may differ in order 
slightly according to the person but I've never heard of any other university entering that top 8. Only then might you get a Scottish uni. I've never seen Edinburgh in the top 15 for maths, perhaps top 20 or so.
slightly according to the person but I've never heard of any other university entering that top 8. Only then might you get a Scottish uni. I've never seen Edinburgh in the top 15 for maths, perhaps top 20 or so.Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were basing this off of virtual data rather than an actual ranking system. Not that you're wrong, but making bold claims that no Scottish uni is in the top ten without actually specifying how you're quantifying this top ten is somewhat dubious.
Also, even if you are right, it may interest you, as a mathematician, to learn that 8 is actually less than 10. And as to you never having 'seen' Edinburgh in the top 10, again, exactly what top 10 is this?
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by alexs2602
If you had read my other posts you'd have seen that I meant for the old fee system which applies to me, which is a disgrace because £3.3k pa is an absolute bargain. Cheaper than your living costs. I also said that the new fees are a bit more dodgy. And 27 to 36? A lot of people do a 3 year course, I'm doing a 4 year but I'm in the minority so 27 really. Don't apply your silly 4 year structure to us automatically
Please, ranking tables are notoriously wrong. St Andrews 3rd? Gimme a break. It goes Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick, Imperial, Bristol. That top 5 is pretty much undisputed. Then it tends to go Bath, Durham, UCL which may differ in order slightly according to the person but I've never heard of any other university entering that top 8. Only then might you get a Scottish uni. I've never seen Edinburgh in the top 15 for maths, perhaps top 20 or so.
Please, ranking tables are notoriously wrong. St Andrews 3rd? Gimme a break. It goes Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick, Imperial, Bristol. That top 5 is pretty much undisputed. Then it tends to go Bath, Durham, UCL which may differ in order slightly according to the person but I've never heard of any other university entering that top 8. Only then might you get a Scottish uni. I've never seen Edinburgh in the top 15 for maths, perhaps top 20 or so.
No this is with all due respect wrong.
i) Cambridge and Oxford are the top 2 that is the only truly undisputed fact
ii) Next down generally people go with the Good London colleges (ICL, UCL, LSE) but this is by no means undisputed
iii) The likes of Warwick, Durham, S.t Andrews are pretty much un differentiable, while possibly contesting the likes of UCL. Ergo this is VERY disuputed with no clear winner.
iiii) Bristol and Bath are often slightly lower down than the above, again though its always disuputed.
I would argue the top 8 are: Cambridge, Oxford, ICL, LSE, UCL, Durham, Warwick, s.t Andrews. In that order however beyond the first 2 its impossible for anyone to say for sure.
Original post by Domeface
Well congratulations for you, but I don't really see what is to be gained by giving advice based on outdated circumstances? In today's environment, university costs £9k a year. Anything before that is irrelevant.
I wasn't giving [much] advice iirc. I was criticising people who made the decision with the old fee systerm for the most part.
In many professions, eg most types of Engineering, doing an intergrated Masters is pretty much essential so you can become chartered; otherwise you have to waste much more time post-uni to qualify for chartership. In the two professions I'm most interested in, ChemEng and Acturial work, doing a masters would be very much preferred. Not to mention the even longer courses for medicine, vet and architecture.
Don't give me all that, I could keep going all day about this. You're talking about the minority of degrees. 4 years is standard in Scotland but in the rest of the UK 3 years is. There's such a long list of 3 year degrees I wouldnt bothere arguing if I were you. You think I don't know about these courses? Look at my post count, look at my post history. I've read a lot about uni courses. I know that the courses you've mentioned tend to last 5 years but I also know that almost everyone nowadays tends to go for a BSc/BA. Sure there are people who do masters but they're quite heavily outweighed by the latter
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were basing this off of virtual data rather than an actual ranking system. Not that you're wrong, but making bold claims that no Scottish uni is in the top ten without actually specifying how you're quantifying this top ten is somewhat dubious.
Also, even if you are right, it may interest you, as a mathematician, to learn that 8 is actually less than 10. And as to you never having 'seen' Edinburgh in the top 10, again, exactly what top 10 is this?
Also, even if you are right, it may interest you, as a mathematician, to learn that 8 is actually less than 10. And as to you never having 'seen' Edinburgh in the top 10, again, exactly what top 10 is this?
I can't remember the link but there's a different ranking system created by an academic which is actually very useful using research funding among other criteria. The thing is that most newspaper ranking tables use crappy measures which in the long run are misleading. Satisfication rates in particular are the worst things to base your decision on. Graduate prospects is a bit annoying too because while a degree may help you get a job after university that doesn't mean it'll be a good job so who really cares about that stat?
Generally speaking the top 8 I gave is more academic based. The biggest problem is that everyone is looking for something different so ranking tables are just a horrible thing to base your decisions on. There are very few things which rankings should be based on and academics is one of them, grade requirements is kind of another since all work set is based on the ability of the entire group. The decision should also be based on what you think of the university after the open day because no one can tell you whether you'll like a certain campus until after you've been there. 8 is less than 10? Wow, you can count. I only didn't include the next two because after then it gets a lot more subjective. I've often heard people say my university is 10th for example, but others say Manchester, Exeter etc.
Original post by Smack
You do not appear to understand how a newspaper ranking table works if you are calling it wrong.
A ranking table consists of a list of data attributed to each university (e.g. student satisfaction, graduate employment rate), and then a weightings system to decide which data is the most important. Universities are then ranked according to their score.
A newspaper league table does not have to coincide with your own subjective opinions (which is heavily subjective; if you think that there is an "undisputed" top 5 then you are much more ignorant than I thought). And just because it does not, you cannot call it "wrong": it's very childish and reveals your ignorance of how they work.
A ranking table consists of a list of data attributed to each university (e.g. student satisfaction, graduate employment rate), and then a weightings system to decide which data is the most important. Universities are then ranked according to their score.
A newspaper league table does not have to coincide with your own subjective opinions (which is heavily subjective; if you think that there is an "undisputed" top 5 then you are much more ignorant than I thought). And just because it does not, you cannot call it "wrong": it's very childish and reveals your ignorance of how they work.
Troll or idiot. See above. I can call it wrong if I feel the criteria is not very useful to prospective students when choosing their university.
Original post by QuantumOverlord
No this is with all due respect wrong.
i) Cambridge and Oxford are the top 2 that is the only truly undisputed fact
ii) Next down generally people go with the Good London colleges (ICL, UCL, LSE) but this is by no means undisputed
iii) The likes of Warwick, Durham, S.t Andrews are pretty much un differentiable, while possibly contesting the likes of UCL. Ergo this is VERY disuputed with no clear winner.
iiii) Bristol and Bath are often slightly lower down than the above, again though its always disuputed.
I would argue the top 8 are: Cambridge, Oxford, ICL, LSE, UCL, Durham, Warwick, s.t Andrews. In that order however beyond the first 2 its impossible for anyone to say for sure.
i) Cambridge and Oxford are the top 2 that is the only truly undisputed fact
ii) Next down generally people go with the Good London colleges (ICL, UCL, LSE) but this is by no means undisputed
iii) The likes of Warwick, Durham, S.t Andrews are pretty much un differentiable, while possibly contesting the likes of UCL. Ergo this is VERY disuputed with no clear winner.
iiii) Bristol and Bath are often slightly lower down than the above, again though its always disuputed.
I would argue the top 8 are: Cambridge, Oxford, ICL, LSE, UCL, Durham, Warwick, s.t Andrews. In that order however beyond the first 2 its impossible for anyone to say for sure.
Just to be sure, you know I'm talking about maths... right? I'm not talking about in general. LSE for example is very good but doesn't offer straight maths, only a joint honours with econ.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by alexs2602
Just to be sure, you know I'm talking about maths... right? I'm not talking about in general. LSE for example is very good but doesn't offer straight maths, only a joint honours with econ.
Okay then of course it will be slightly different for Maths, However I would argue that beyond Oxbridge/Warwick it is still very difficult to differentiate the following universities:
ICL
UCL
Durham
st Andrews
Bristol
Bath
Okay I would say ICL nudges towards the top on this list, however this is still quite subjective, taking into account all the evidence available I think the best we can say is that they are all very good universities with no clear winner (apart from Oxbridge and Warwick)
Original post by alexs2602
Don't give me all that, I could keep going all day about this. You're talking about the minority of degrees. 4 years is standard in Scotland but in the rest of the UK 3 years is. There's such a long list of 3 year degrees I wouldnt bothere arguing if I were you. You think I don't know about these courses? Look at my post count, look at my post history. I've read a lot about uni courses. I know that the courses you've mentioned tend to last 5 years but I also know that almost everyone nowadays tends to go for a BSc/BA. Sure there are people who do masters but they're quite heavily outweighed by the latter
Lol, 'look I have a high post-count I obviously know everything' k.
And yes, I'm aware that most people only do a three year degree; that doesn't change the fact that there are a significant number of people doing 4 years or more and this paying £36k+, making my analysis of the fees being 27-36k perfectly valid; never did I say that the £36k group was in the majority.
I can't remember the link but there's a different ranking system created by an academic which is actually very useful using research funding among other criteria. The thing is that most newspaper ranking tables use crappy measures which in the long run are misleading. Satisfication rates in particular are the worst things to base your decision on. Graduate prospects is a bit annoying too because while a degree may help you get a job after university that doesn't mean it'll be a good job so who really cares about that stat?
Generally speaking the top 8 I gave is more academic based. The biggest problem is that everyone is looking for something different so ranking tables are just a horrible thing to base your decisions on. There are very few things which rankings should be based on and academics is one of them, grade requirements is kind of another since all work set is based on the ability of the entire group. The decision should also be based on what you think of the university after the open day because no one can tell you whether you'll like a certain campus until after you've been there. 8 is less than 10? Wow, you can count. I only didn't include the next two because after then it gets a lot more subjective. I've often heard people say my university is 10th for example, but others say Manchester, Exeter etc.
I'll edit in a reply to this later, don't have time atm.
Original post by silkybhoy67
not sure how good aberdeen uni is, theyre entry requirements are pretty low. tho thats prob coz of the location of aberdeen tho and not the uni.
Aberdeen is a great university!!!
It is the 5th oldest university in the UK, and has a fantastic reputation. It is within the top 150 universities in the world, and the city itself is the oil capital of the UK.
I would agree with you that its low entry requirements are down to its location, as a lot of people from England would be unwilling to come this far up north. Oh well, more fool them for missing out on a great university!!
Original post by alexs2602
That's disgraceful quite frankly.
And that's subjective. I don't believe that any Scottish uni makes an appearance in the maths top 10, for example. So someone who's v intelligent but perhaps not Oxbridge intelligent will miss out on the likes of Warwick, Imp, Bristol, Bath, UCL, Durham etc because of stubbornness?
And that's subjective. I don't believe that any Scottish uni makes an appearance in the maths top 10, for example. So someone who's v intelligent but perhaps not Oxbridge intelligent will miss out on the likes of Warwick, Imp, Bristol, Bath, UCL, Durham etc because of stubbornness?
Actually, I think Scotland is fantastic for universities!!! We are a tiny country, our entire population is roughly six million, yet we have five universities in the top 200 universities in the world? I think that is a great achievement.
Consider this: The population of England is 51 million, so therefore there are 8.5 times more people in England, yet, there are just 23 universities from England in the top 200 universities of the world (give or take a few, I may have miscounted). Therefore, there are just 4-5 times more universities in England in the top 200 than in Scotland.
Therefore, in proportion to population size, we in Scotland are actually more spoilt for choice in world-class universities than those in England.
Original post by Alt__x
Actually, I think Scotland is fantastic for universities!!! We are a tiny country, our entire population is roughly six million, yet we have five universities in the top 200 universities in the world? I think that is a great achievement.
Consider this: The population of England is 51 million, so therefore there are 8.5 times more people in England, yet, there are just 23 universities from England in the top 200 universities of the world (give or take a few, I may have miscounted). Therefore, there are just 4-5 times more universities in England in the top 200 than in Scotland.
Therefore, in proportion to population size, we in Scotland are actually more spoilt for choice in world-class universities than those in England.
Consider this: The population of England is 51 million, so therefore there are 8.5 times more people in England, yet, there are just 23 universities from England in the top 200 universities of the world (give or take a few, I may have miscounted). Therefore, there are just 4-5 times more universities in England in the top 200 than in Scotland.
Therefore, in proportion to population size, we in Scotland are actually more spoilt for choice in world-class universities than those in England.
Well at least that was a cohesive argument compared to everyone else but it still doesn't address the fact that most if not all rankings aren't worth the electricity used to show them(or the paper they're printed on). Sure we like to think that global rankings are correct especially if they show a British uni in the top 100 or 200 but we may see some there but not another we would expect so how reliable is your anecdote?
I'll guess at St Andrews, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and perhaps Stirling being the 5 that featured in the top 200. However when you think about it do you really think there are only 23 English unis that 'rank' higher than those? I reckon St Andrews and Edinburgh would probably rank in my top 20 max but then how do you argue that Glasgow through Stirling are the only other unis between that and the next 5 English unis?
Let me clear something up a second, I'm not saying all Scottish unis are bad - far from it. But I was saying that it's ignorant and at least was a bit silly not to consider more than just Scottish unis. If I was applying to St Andrews then I'd want to apply to a number of universities within 10, 15 universities of it ideally. It all boils down to ignorance and pigheadedness. I would say the same of people who only wanted to apply to London. If you're really smart you can get away with it in London though, just about although I wouldn't advise it. Most people aren't smart enough to do that anyway.
Also did it ever occur to you that it doesn't matter if you're 'spoilt for choice' in comparison to England? You're just over the border, it's not all that far so why let boundaries stop you from applying to a university? I would understand it if England(or wales) were overseas but we aren't.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by DontWantYourBloodMoney
Well I would say it's entirely on the subject rather than the university, for example some courses are only offered in certain scottish universities (eg. Pharmacy is offered in very few) and my course (PPE) is only offered in Stirling. St Andrews is very good for traditional subjects such as english etc but strathclyde or glasgow is probably better for sciences. As for medicine, St Andrews medicine degrees take a year longer than other scottish universities for whatever reason (possibly the lack of a practising hospital), so Edinburgh is quicker for that degree. I wouldn't really pay attention to rankings all that much, but rather go and see the universities and see which ones you prefer. If I hadn't gone to Stirling I would have taken my offer from Edinburgh over St Andrews, but that's just me.
your right about the fact that it does take a year longer to study medicine. But then that is counteracted by the fact that you gain two degrees. MBChb & Bsc(hons) . Plus only Oxbridge and Imperial college london offer this 6 year degree as well as St Andrews.
Original post by alexs2602
Also did it ever occur to you that it doesn't matter if you're 'spoilt for choice' in comparison to England? You're just over the border, it's not all that far so why let boundaries stop you from applying to a university? I would understand it if England(or wales) were overseas but we aren't.
Also did it ever occur to you that it doesn't matter if you're 'spoilt for choice' in comparison to England? You're just over the border, it's not all that far so why let boundaries stop you from applying to a university? I would understand it if England(or wales) were overseas but we aren't.
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I don't know or remember who's posted what and when. However I think we have already covered this:
For a Scottish student, Scotland has many very good universities (compared to it's population as well), quite of a few of which are considered 'world class' (whatever that means) which they can attend for free (tuition wise). While some English universities may be a better choice, they may not be worth thousands of pounds more. YOu could add being further away from home and somewhere different into the mix, but even with those it may not be worth the extra money.
Do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
Hey guys, I've been reading this topic but I haven't found a specific answer for what I was looking for.
I am currently an IB student from Portugal and I am thinking about studying in Scotland for Economics.
I would simply like to know what university(ies) is(ar) the best at this course, if any of them are better than each other of course!
Thanks!
I am currently an IB student from Portugal and I am thinking about studying in Scotland for Economics.
I would simply like to know what university(ies) is(ar) the best at this course, if any of them are better than each other of course!
Thanks!
Hi there, I think I can help you out.
Quick thing first, you into football at all? I'm a massive Benfiquista
Anyway Economics is a great subject and Scotland is an excellent place for EU applicants to study, not least because it's free but the education is also some of the best in the world.
In my opinion, the best four economic schools are located at the University of Edinburgh, University of St Andrews, University of Glasgow and Heriot-Watt university.
Edinburgh is located right at the centre of Scotland's capital. Very professional economic school although it is very difficult to get in.
St Andrews is in the countryside of Fife. It's falling down league tables and very socially limited as you're hours away from our two main cities. I wouldn't recommend this choice.
Glasgow is a consistently good uni with the second ranked school of Economics in Scotland. Offers very flexible degrees and is the most social city in Scotland with cheap bars and regular gigs.
However my recommendation is Heriot-Watt. It's in Edinburgh just outside the city centre and the uni is flying up league tables and was named the most improved uni of the year in 2011. The Economic school is 4 in the UK and 1st in Scotland, and it's in a prime location right outside the city centre of our capital.
Hope this helps and good luck
Quick thing first, you into football at all? I'm a massive Benfiquista
Anyway Economics is a great subject and Scotland is an excellent place for EU applicants to study, not least because it's free but the education is also some of the best in the world.
In my opinion, the best four economic schools are located at the University of Edinburgh, University of St Andrews, University of Glasgow and Heriot-Watt university.
Edinburgh is located right at the centre of Scotland's capital. Very professional economic school although it is very difficult to get in.
St Andrews is in the countryside of Fife. It's falling down league tables and very socially limited as you're hours away from our two main cities. I wouldn't recommend this choice.
Glasgow is a consistently good uni with the second ranked school of Economics in Scotland. Offers very flexible degrees and is the most social city in Scotland with cheap bars and regular gigs.
However my recommendation is Heriot-Watt. It's in Edinburgh just outside the city centre and the uni is flying up league tables and was named the most improved uni of the year in 2011. The Economic school is 4 in the UK and 1st in Scotland, and it's in a prime location right outside the city centre of our capital.
Hope this helps and good luck
Thanks for the response! And yes, I'm very into football, but I support the best team of the country, FCPorto obviously! ahaha
Anyway, I also share your opinion that Scotland is a great place to study in, and I've heard that the social life and just the environment is just awesome!
I have indeed been looking at all those universities that you've mentioned and I am highly considering applying to most of them.
I have contacted Heriot-Watt though, and unfortunately they apparently require 29 points and Maths at Higher Level (which I don't do simply because it's way too advanced for an economics course in my opinion).
St. Andrews requires a high amount of points (38), and for me its too much for an economics course.
I'm applying for both Edinburgh and Glasgow because many people have told me that it's worth it due to the good solid courses they offer.
Moreover, i'm applying to Dundee and Stirling, the latter being a "safe" choice for me.
Thanks for the answer and keep them coming!
Anyway, I also share your opinion that Scotland is a great place to study in, and I've heard that the social life and just the environment is just awesome!
I have indeed been looking at all those universities that you've mentioned and I am highly considering applying to most of them.
I have contacted Heriot-Watt though, and unfortunately they apparently require 29 points and Maths at Higher Level (which I don't do simply because it's way too advanced for an economics course in my opinion).
St. Andrews requires a high amount of points (38), and for me its too much for an economics course.
I'm applying for both Edinburgh and Glasgow because many people have told me that it's worth it due to the good solid courses they offer.
Moreover, i'm applying to Dundee and Stirling, the latter being a "safe" choice for me.
Thanks for the answer and keep them coming!
Original post by Tams80
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I don't know or remember who's posted what and when. However I think we have already covered this:
For a Scottish student, Scotland has many very good universities (compared to it's population as well), quite of a few of which are considered 'world class' (whatever that means) which they can attend for free (tuition wise). While some English universities may be a better choice, they may not be worth thousands of pounds more. YOu could add being further away from home and somewhere different into the mix, but even with those it may not be worth the extra money.
Do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
For a Scottish student, Scotland has many very good universities (compared to it's population as well), quite of a few of which are considered 'world class' (whatever that means) which they can attend for free (tuition wise). While some English universities may be a better choice, they may not be worth thousands of pounds more. YOu could add being further away from home and somewhere different into the mix, but even with those it may not be worth the extra money.
Do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
"many very good".... sorry, maybe we haven't different definitions of many. 5, iirc, is not many. Get over it, you have some, but not enough that you should really risk applying to only unis in Scotland.... well, at least on the old tuition fee system - the new system doesn't apply to me, hence I don't care. Also "quite a few considered 'world-class'" - St Andrews and Edinburgh? Glasgow is good, not quite world class. 2 is not quite a few. No shame in admitting it, stop being so arrogant. On the old tuition fee system tuition fees didn't really account for as much as people made out really - I spend more on accommodation(inc food). Well, that's(While some English universities may be a better choice.... more.) a vague statement isn't it? I appreciate the distance from home argument a bit.... if you have the choice(like I do) but you don't; not really. You have the Scottish unis and then the nearest good unis are Durham then... Newcastle, right(I'm asking because of my geographical knowledge)? That's only two more unis... oh sorry, 'quite a few' more unis by your definition.
I won't hesitate to admit that Scotland has good unis but Scottish people seem to have this over-inflated sense of how good they actually are, and are too stubborn to admit that they don't have as many good unis as they'd like to have.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by alexs2602
"many very good".... sorry, maybe we haven't different definitions of many. 5, iirc, is not many. Get over it, you have some, but not enough that you should really risk applying to only unis in Scotland.... well, at least on the old tuition fee system - the new system doesn't apply to me, hence I don't care. Also "quite a few considered 'world-class'" - St Andrews and Edinburgh? Glasgow is good, not quite world class. 2 is not quite a few. No shame in admitting it, stop being so arrogant. On the old tuition fee system tuition fees didn't really account for as much as people made out really - I spend more on accommodation(inc food). Well, that's(While some English universities may be a better choice.... more.) a vague statement isn't it? I appreciate the distance from home argument a bit.... if you have the choice(like I do) but you don't; not really. You have the Scottish unis and then the nearest good unis are Durham then... Newcastle, right(I'm asking because of my geographical knowledge)? That's only two more unis... oh sorry, 'quite a few' more unis by your definition.
I won't hesitate to admit that Scotland has good unis but Scottish people seem to have this over-inflated sense of how good they actually are, and are too stubborn to admit that they don't have as many good unis as they'd like to have.
I won't hesitate to admit that Scotland has good unis but Scottish people seem to have this over-inflated sense of how good they actually are, and are too stubborn to admit that they don't have as many good unis as they'd like to have.
But pro rata to population, two world class in Scotland roughly equates to twenty world class in England and five good to fifty good in England. I suspect you will be hard pressed to find 20 world class universities in England , you might find fifty good universities in England but some would be of no better calibre than Stirling, Dundee and Heriot Watt so that will raise the comparable tarriff to eighty.Accordingly I think we have every right to be proud of our Universities
Its also good to remember that we had four universities when England only had two, Durham is so nouveau.
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