The Student Room Group

Dad jailed for giving dying daughter medicinal cannabis.

Scroll to see replies

Original post by The_Mighty_Bush
If you think using ad-hominem attacks is the way to go then I'm not going to continue debating with you.


Whatever you have to do that allows you to ignore the fact that marijuana smoke contains 3 times as much tar and 5 times as much carbon monoxide.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to let people get away with spouting complete bull****, and you should be ashamed for doing so.

I'm not speaking without experience or demanding prohibition. I think marijuana should be legal, and in my adult life I've probably spent about 3 cumulative years smoking weed everyday.

People should be able to smoke it if they want, but don't pretend it's not harmful when smoked regularly or heavily, it clearly is. And it clearly interferes with brain function, people become slower, less able to make fine distinctions, less able to concentrate. If that's how someone wants to live their life, so be it. But don't try to convince other people it's just this harmless herb
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by young_guns
Whatever you have to do that allows you to ignore the fact that marijuana smoke contains 3 times as much tar and 5 times as much carbon monoxide.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to let people get away with spouting complete bull****, and you should be ashamed for doing so.

I'm not speaking without experience or demanding prohibition. I think marijuana should be legal, and in my adult life I've probably spent about 3 cumulative years smoking weed everyday.

People should be able to smoke it if they want, but don't pretend it's not harmful when smoked regularly or heavily, it clearly is. And it clearly slows down brain function.

The tone of this post is improved so I'll reply to this one.

I don't agree that I spouted "complete bull****" and I think you are attacking a position that I don't hold, which is fair enough as you can't know that I don't believe that Marijuana is completely harmless.

Marijuana smoke may have 3 times as much tar as cigarettes but that doesn't mean that there aren't alternative ways of taking in THC which don't involve any kind of smoking.

I haven't read into all the science of the link between mental illness and weed but I have read literature on the subject which is critical of the conclusion that Marijuana smoking causes psychosis.

In any case I think this is a minor error in the scheme of things when you consider the lies and misinformation that have been peddled to the population by governments to support the prohibitionist policy.
Original post by The_Mighty_Bush

Marijuana smoke may have 3 times as much tar as cigarettes but that doesn't mean that there aren't alternative ways of taking in THC which don't involve any kind of smoking.


And I would encourage anyone who ingests marijuana to find some alternative method, like eating or vaporising it. It is deeply misguided to underplay the health risks of heavy smoking of cannabis.

I haven't read into all the science of the link between mental illness and weed but I have read literature on the subject which is critical of the conclusion that Marijuana smoking causes psychosis.


That's a rather unsophisticated view of it. It mightn't cause it, but very likely to aggravate an underlying condition or act as the catalyst for something to which people have a predisposition.

It's also the case that the evidence for this link is becoming stronger in the scientific literature, not weaker. In particular, the strongest link for which we have evidence is that the earlier someone starts smoking cannabis, particularly in those early teenage years, the higher their incidence of major depressive disorders in later life. It's highly irreponsible to dismiss that out of hand particularly given children shouldn't be taking cannabis anyway

And it tallies with what I know from my own experience and that of friends of mine; that when I was a heavy cannabis smoker, I developed a panic attack condition which got quite bad. I gave up cannabis and I haven't had a panic attack for years (and I'd never had them before I took it up). It's also my experience that for a significant subset of people, marijuana does make them paranoid, self-conscious or anxious, but they accept it as a side-effect rather than taking the hint. And it ruins someone's productivity, their ability to discern fine distinctions (try reading a 100-page High Court case when you're a heavy, everyday smoker.)

In any case I think this is a minor error in the scheme of things when you consider the lies and misinformation that have been peddled to the population by governments to support the prohibitionist policy.


I disagree. Government misinformation doesn't justify pro-marijuana misinformation. I view marijuana the same way I'd view cigarettes (and while it might not kill people in the same way, it also ruins people's motivation and productivity in a way that cigarettes don't).
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by young_guns
It seems the one who can't read an abstract is you. That study says that occasional or low cumulative marijuana use was not associated with adverse affects on the pulmonary system.

It does not say that heavy marijuana use is not associated with adverse affects on the pulmonary system.


I can read abstracts, and I knew that. That is why I said it found the same results as the other abstract which was also to that effect. :rolleyes:
Original post by young_guns
It's not near as bad, it's far worse.

Cannabis has significantly more tar in it than tobacco, as well as other harmful chemicals.

http://adai.uw.edu/marijuana/factsheets/respiratoryeffects.htm


'It's far worse', despite the fact: "However no consistent association has been found between marijuana smoking and measures of airway dysfunction" (From your own article).

Can you say the same for cigarettes? No, not really http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/121/13/1518.long

"Light and intermittent smoking carry nearly the same risk for cardiovascular disease as daily smoking."

And of course heavier use has more chances of causing damage. Just like heavy use of literally anything will cause damage in some way or another. :facepalm:

You're really going to have to try harder than this in order to persuade me.


Reply 105
Original post by SarcasticMel
No you don't. A judge can do his job and judge.


That second sentence really didn't make much sense


Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 106
Original post by young_guns
I just looked it up and it seems that's correct about aspirin, but it's also the case that the guidance seems to be that yo shouldn't give aspirin to children.

That kind of understanding is what you get when you have the benefit of medical research. No such research exists forgiving cannabis to children so you might as well beplaying Russian roulette with their health


Original post by n00
Much like dietary supplements. So..... should parents that give their child aspirin or dietary supplements be punished?


Well??
Original post by Wade-
That second sentence really didn't make much sense


Posted from TSR Mobile


How so? The judge has to "judge" whether the person should be punished even if he broke a law. Consider kids trespassing unknowingly. A judge can see and look ok the sign is old it was dark they have no history of civil disobedience, for the sake of the court to save money and not to ruin the kids future over this, I dismiss the case. Something like that.

Of course marijuana is not quite the same as trespassing, but the point is in this situation I am of the opinion the judge should have "judged" this case to have no merit, the father to not require punishment.
Reply 108
Original post by SarcasticMel
How so? The judge has to "judge" whether the person should be punished even if he broke a law. Consider kids trespassing unknowingly. A judge can see and look ok the sign is old it was dark they have no history of civil disobedience, for the sake of the court to save money and not to ruin the kids future over this, I dismiss the case. Something like that.

Of course marijuana is not quite the same as trespassing, but the point is in this situation I am of the opinion the judge should have "judged" this case to have no merit, the father to not require punishment.


Firstly a judges job is not really to judge. They can throw a case out but that would rarely happen in a criminal trial as the CPS would be unlikely to take such a frivolous case to court and a decent solicitor would do the same. Whether or not someone has done something illegal is for a jury or magistrates to decide, they judge if someone has done something wrong.

I don't think you really understand how frivolous a case has to be for a judge to throw it out, this case is very worthy regardless of whether you agree with the law or not. The father factually supplied an illegal drug to a minor and in doing so he knew he was breaking the law thus he has both mens rea and actus reus. I don't imagine either or these were particularly difficult for the CPS to demonstrate and thus at first instance they would have had a strong case
Original post by Wade-
Firstly a judges job is not really to judge. They can throw a case out but that would rarely happen in a criminal trial as the CPS would be unlikely to take such a frivolous case to court and a decent solicitor would do the same. Whether or not someone has done something illegal is for a jury or magistrates to decide, they judge if someone has done something wrong.

I don't think you really understand how frivolous a case has to be for a judge to throw it out, this case is very worthy regardless of whether you agree with the law or not. The father factually supplied an illegal drug to a minor and in doing so he knew he was breaking the law thus he has both mens rea and actus reus. I don't imagine either or these were particularly difficult for the CPS to demonstrate and thus at first instance they would have had a strong case


I'm not saying it will or does happen. But that it should. And he can just say he acted in good faith and not send him to jail.
Reply 110
Original post by SarcasticMel
I'm not saying it will or does happen. But that it should. And he can just say he acted in good faith and not send him to jail.


1. He didn't, he acted knowing what he was doing was illegal
2. If a jury says he is guilty a judge will have to impose some punishment inline with sentencing guidelines


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Wade-
1. He didn't, he acted knowing what he was doing was illegal
2. If a jury says he is guilty a judge will have to impose some punishment inline with sentencing guidelines


Posted from TSR Mobile


1. Same way you can kill someone in good faith (i.e. self defense), they can decide he acted in good faith helping his daughter.

I mean I appreciate the law doesn't work that way, but I am saying it should. Why even have judges if they can't do exactly this.
Reply 112
Original post by SarcasticMel
1. Same way you can kill someone in good faith (i.e. self defense), they can decide he acted in good faith helping his daughter.

I mean I appreciate the law doesn't work that way, but I am saying it should. Why even have judges if they can't do exactly this.


Well as long as you didn't use excessive force that wouldn't be illegal so it's different. Killing another person is not illegal if it's in self defence, supplying someone with marijuana is illegal regardless of the circumstances. Judges aren't there to change the law, they're primarily there to direct a jury, oversee a trial and decide on sentencing


Posted from TSR Mobile

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending