Are you voting for Ukip?

This working class are probaly just ex Tory voters who don't want their money stolen by the government

Perfectly rational position, Thatcher ingratiated much of the working class to the Tories by making them property owners. Our no tax on minimum wage policy helps them more than anyone else. Do you want your money stolen by the government to pass on to EU bureaucrats and foreign dictators?

Reply 101

Nickbonista

3

Original post by Gott

Precisely, that is a traditional Tory mentality, which the conservatives reject for some reason, the same reason that they have gravitated to the centre right

It is interesting, the Tories fought '01 and '05 on tax, Europe and immigration and were slaughtered, UKIP campaign on same fronts and are rising, especially in the areas that would never elect Tories. It's primarily down to the legacy of Thatcher in my opinion, her name is still poison even among UKIP voters in much of the north. But rationally, our policies help the working classes, so it's no surprise to see them supporting a party that represents their views and concerns, and will enhance their prospects and prosperity.

Reply 102

молодой гений

7

Original post by biodesign

If you do not vote for UKIP that is fine.

Please though understand what UKIP immigration policy is.

They want a point-based system similar to Australia, where we decide the numbers and skills.

As mentioned it is actually a much more ethical and fairer playing field.

Yeah mate, but Aussie immigration policy is a) designed to increase their population, and b) has led to a 24-26% foreign-born population.

In the UK that figure is at 12% currently.

Reply 103

Nickbonista

3

Original post by молодой гений

Yeah mate, but Aussie immigration policy is a) designed to increase their population, and b) has led to a 24-26% foreign-born population.

In the UK that figure is at 12% currently.

The principle stands to judge people based on skills and suitability to live and work in Britain. Also, you may have noticed Australia have a lot of space to play with, whereas as we are the most crowded country in Europe.

Reply 104

Stacy93

12

I'd rather hack off my right hand with a rusty knife than put a cross next to ukip on a ballot form!!

Reply 105

молодой гений

7

Original post by Nickbonista

The principle stands to judge people based on skills and suitability to live and work in Britain. Also, you may have noticed Australia have a lot of space to play with, whereas as we are the most crowded country in Europe.

Most of Aussie land is unliveable, though. You notice how they all live along the west coast in a line? (except Perth)

Please don't spread blatant lies on the internet. I think you'll find that the most crowded country in Europe is the Netherlands, followed by Belgium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density

The UK is 3rd, or 51st in the world. Closely followed by Liechtenstein and Germany.

Reply 106

Nickbonista

3

Original post by молодой гений

Most of Aussie land is unliveable, though. You notice how they all live along the west coast in a line? (except Perth)

Please don't spread blatant lies on the internet. I think you'll find that the most crowded country in Europe is the Netherlands, followed by Belgium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density

The UK is 3rd, or 51st in the world. Closely followed by Liechtenstein and Germany.

If we're going to be pedantic, most people live on the eastern coast of Australia. 3rd most crowded is still high enough to be considered crowded. And as I said, you can't fault the principle the policy is based on.

Reply 107

biodesign

Original post by молодой гений

Yeah mate, but Aussie immigration policy is a) designed to increase their population, and b) has led to a 24-26% foreign-born population.

In the UK that figure is at 12% currently.

Us adopting an Australian point-based system does not mean we will implicate it the same way.

Britain is incredibly densely populated and has an open door to unskilled labour from EU member states.

So a point-based system would be open to the entire world, not the current favourtism of EU member states.

So unless you mean.. we will use the system in exactly the same way as the Australians. (Given the recent astonishing immigration levels of the UK) and the fact over 70% of the British population want it reduced I don't see the relevance as we have different needs to Australia.

Reply 108

HawkEyeArcher

10

Original post by jf1994

Exist?

You were quick to announce TSR is full of Tory supporters, while the Greens are gaining momentum.

Reply 109

Nickbonista

3

Original post by Gott

It is one thing to want a UKIP government and another to make a tactical error which would be so disastrous (Miliband)

Sure, if I lived in a marginal that was on the line (not the ones the Tories barely won in 2010 and are bound to lose, bye bye Anna Soubry ) I may tactically vote Tory to keep labour out. But in safe Tory, Tory lib dem marginals, or anywhere in the north, UKIP will be the main opposition. In the north it's vote Tory get labour. And long term, if you want UKIP to replace the Tories or labour and form governments, a few years of an unwanted government is little in comparison to prolonged stagnation of the two current main parties.

Reply 110

comptroller

6

https://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz

Reply 111

Nickbonista

3

Original post by Gott

This is what would make me vote UKIP but I'm not sure

First past the post means that unless a change in support is on the scale of a tidal wave, like 1945 or 1997, the change will happen slowly. What we're seeing now is the free market of democracy in action; the two main parties are being outflanked on either side, and people are abandoning their brand allegiances and voting with their heads. I would happily go through 5 years of Miliband's take on austerity, if it meant we got a fair referendum and possibly a UKIP government in 2020. The second places for UKIP in this election are just as important as the first, see here.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/sebastian-payne/2015/03/five-things-i-learnt-after-going-behind-the-scenes-with-ukip/
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9461352/as-the-election-nears-ukip-is-getting-serious-about-its-strategy/

Reply 112

Lionheart96

11

Original post by spurs9393

There is nothing racist or stereotypical about wanting control of our borders

Posted from TSR Mobile

Whats a border?

Reply 113

Nickbonista

3

Original post by Lionheart96

Whats a border?

I didn't know socialists don't have dictionaries.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/border

Reply 114

Nickbonista

3

Original post by Gott

I suppose so, I tend to find my true sympathies are with the Peter Hitchens 'obiturist' school of thought anyway

Absolutely, the Tories cannot renegotiate with the EU (nobody can, you're in or out) and are only offering a referendum to keep their party together. A Miliband government will have to make the same cuts after winning on an anti-austerity platform, so will become extremely unpopular. The future is bright for UKIP, so long as we gain a foothold and platform to build on this time round. I accept to a lot of potential voters UKIP aren't perfect, but we are a battering ram against the main two parties, and would secure a fair referendum. Then hypothetically, two natural parties of the left and right would rise, instead of the two we have now whose purpose and goals are simply to be elected, not to represent views or concerns.

Reply 115

Lionheart96

11

Original post by Nickbonista

I didn't know socialists don't have dictionaries.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/border

What makes a border a border?
Who decides where to draw an imaginary line?
If you were walking from france into spain, would you be a ble to tell when you crossed a border if there were no signs to indicate it?

Reply 116

Vertigo_descent

21

Most likely - I prefer them to the Tories. They're about as close to a classical liberal/libertarian party in the UK as it will get, so I like them on that ground.

Test results...

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 117

michael90cr

2

Original post by TCA2b

Most likely - I prefer them to the Tories. They're about as close to a classical liberal/libertarian party in the UK as it will get, so I like them on that ground.

Test results...

You say they are closest to classic liberalist in the UK. What UKIP policies do you view a libeterian? I would personaly see the lib-dems as more libiterian( as they advocate for more freedom: decriminilisation of certain drugs, open borders) and compared to the Conservatives as I havent seen any UKIP policy isn't more libiterian but I am intrested to hear what you think

Reply 118

Nickbonista

3

Original post by michael90cr

You say they are closest to classic liberalist in the UK. What UKIP policies do you view a libeterian? I would personaly see the lib-dems as more libiterian( as they advocate for more freedom: decriminilisation of certain drugs, open borders) and compared to the Conservatives as I havent seen any UKIP policy isn't more libiterian but I am intrested to hear what you think

We're fiscally and foreign policy-wise more libertarian, but socially more conservative than the definitive libertarian.

Reply 119

Nickbonista

3

Original post by Lionheart96

What makes a border a border?
Who decides where to draw an imaginary line?
If you were walking from france into spain, would you be a ble to tell when you crossed a border if there were no signs to indicate it?

Usually borders develop around physical features like mountains or rivers, and deserts, as groups of people can coalesce in between these features, and develop into a society with a common culture, language, history, and government. They also mean the society has a defence against others, as they have to cross mountains, rivers, or deserts to reach them.

Examples are the Pyrenees since you mention France and Spain (there are regions of crossover like Navarre and Andorra, but the principle stands), the Czech lands being borderd by the Carpathian and Sudeten mountains (among others), meaning they've had an almost continual existence within the same borders with a period being part of the Austrian Empire, and Egypt being bordered by deserts to the East, West, and South, and forming along the Nile Valley. A river example is the Tweed separating Scotland and England for hundreds of years.

As for knowing when you've crossed a border, the physical features are usually a kick-off, as I explained, you're likely to have crossed something significant like a mountain range. Culture-wise, there are obviously solvent effects on a border as almost non are completely impervious, but the language is likely to be if not different entirely, then a different dialect. Architecture will likely be different, people's religious traditions, diet, military traditions, laws, need I continue?

These links may prove useful, hope I cleared that up :smile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geopolitics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology

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