Graduate Entry Medicine 2017
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Original post by paniking_and_not_revising
I try to focus on the fact that I tend to do better in exams that I feel went badly.
Oh god. I know. A day is going to feel like eternity.
What does everyone think about Jeremy Hunt's plans to introduce more places for med students? I mean he says it's to tackle GP shortages but aren't we just going to end up with more people running around after surgiery and more people not wanting to do primary care?
I really hope it results in more places for grad entry medicine though.
Oh god. I know. A day is going to feel like eternity.
What does everyone think about Jeremy Hunt's plans to introduce more places for med students? I mean he says it's to tackle GP shortages but aren't we just going to end up with more people running around after surgiery and more people not wanting to do primary care?
I really hope it results in more places for grad entry medicine though.
Hard to say how it may effect GEM, I think the places will be for undergrads personally, and the effects will be minimal when spread across all the UK med schools. More worrying is the conscription proposition of 4 years compulsory NHS service before any posts can be taken abroad. Personal choice, family changes, partners careers and of course training opportunities would all have to be put on hold for a 4 year minimal service, 2 years F1 and F2 and into ST. Medicine is not the armed forces. I served in the Army, the idea that I may have left and attempted to enter medicine only to run into the same 4 year minimum service requirements is almost painfully laughable! Doctors are getting treated like dirt in the UK and it's getting worse.
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Yh. Was just reading that too. I think it's a great idea. More places in the future for med school. Hopefully we will all get the chance to become doctors in the end. It makes sense. Especially after brexit. More vacancies in gp and hospital for doctors. I can only see the role of a doctor in health care become Increasingly more important. Considering all other cuts in other parts of the nhs. Good news
Original post by Peace4life
Yh. Was just reading that too. I think it's a great idea. More places in the future for med school. Hopefully we will all get the chance to become doctors in the end. It makes sense. Especially after brexit. More vacancies in gp and hospital for doctors. I can only see the role of a doctor in health care become Increasingly more important. Considering all other cuts in other parts of the nhs. Good news
Don't jump the gun, it most definitely isn't good news at this stage.
Remember who you are dealing with here. More med school positions are proposed (key word, proposed) but are medical schools prepared for this? Will it result in more clinical placements to accommodate them? Will more med school places necessarily mean more F1 posts, or increased competition for those that already exist? More places are great - but they need to increase places across the entire training spectrum to make it succeed, not just offer more staring gates to an already crowded race track. Time will tell if Hunt has any little tricks up his sleeve and I have no doubt that he does.
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Original post by Themightylaa
Don't jump the gun, it most definitely isn't good news at this stage.
Remember who you are dealing with here. More med school positions are proposed (key word, proposed) but are medical schools prepared for this? Will it result in more clinical placements to accommodate them? Will more med school places necessarily mean more F1 posts, or increased competition for those that already exist? More places are great - but they need to increase places across the entire training spectrum to make it succeed, not just offer more staring gates to an already crowded race track. Time will tell if Hunt has any little tricks up his sleeve and I have no doubt that he does.
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Remember who you are dealing with here. More med school positions are proposed (key word, proposed) but are medical schools prepared for this? Will it result in more clinical placements to accommodate them? Will more med school places necessarily mean more F1 posts, or increased competition for those that already exist? More places are great - but they need to increase places across the entire training spectrum to make it succeed, not just offer more staring gates to an already crowded race track. Time will tell if Hunt has any little tricks up his sleeve and I have no doubt that he does.
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My first thought was fantastic but then it was great, more suicidal and depressed doctors. And with us now most likely leaving the EU, I hope the 4 year courses don't continue to get phased out. Would be a shame if it didn't lead to more 4 year places though
I wonder why the DoH doesn't just the specialties struggling to recruit more attractive. I'm not even a med student or doctor know and the thought of psychiatry makes me feel dead on the inside. Is he going to force the new medical students to go into the specialties struggling to recruit like A&E, GP...
It seems like Hunt had a deadline for a new idea, stayed up until 3am, got tired and just wrote down the first half-arsed idea that occurred to him.
In regards to the 4 year service, I don't think it's the worst idea but the new contract along with being forced to work in the NHS is horrible. This is going to do nothing but decrease morale and make doctors even more determined to leave the country.
However, I'm even more convinced that the NHS is going to be privatised with the introduction of insurance companies. I mentioned this to a friend a few years ago and we both thought it'd never happen but it looks more and more likely that the government will hand healthcare over to the private sector to pay for the training of these new doctors so they don't have to take on the burden. And if the NHS budget isn't increased and not sold off to the private sector, how will the NHS cope with having to pay and train more doctors.
Original post by Themightylaa
Don't jump the gun, it most definitely isn't good news at this stage.
Remember who you are dealing with here. More med school positions are proposed (key word, proposed) but are medical schools prepared for this? Will it result in more clinical placements to accommodate them? Will more med school places necessarily mean more F1 posts, or increased competition for those that already exist? More places are great - but they need to increase places across the entire training spectrum to make it succeed, not just offer more staring gates to an already crowded race track. Time will tell if Hunt has any little tricks up his sleeve and I have no doubt that he does.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Remember who you are dealing with here. More med school positions are proposed (key word, proposed) but are medical schools prepared for this? Will it result in more clinical placements to accommodate them? Will more med school places necessarily mean more F1 posts, or increased competition for those that already exist? More places are great - but they need to increase places across the entire training spectrum to make it succeed, not just offer more staring gates to an already crowded race track. Time will tell if Hunt has any little tricks up his sleeve and I have no doubt that he does.
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Absolutely. Increasing the number of F1/2 posts in accordance with the number of graduates from medical school is an obvious step, but our dear health secretary doesn't have a very good track record of addressing obvious issues that don't benefit him personally. While I'm worried about the proposed 4 year conscription (most doctors have stayed on to work in the UK immediately after registering anyway, although more and more are being tempted away given the current conditions), I'm more worried about the possibility that doctors will be forced into specialties they were never interested in. The extra medical school places are going to be introduced in order to fill vacancies in the less popular specialties after all, and if they intend to force you into working for the NHS for four years minimum, is that the only limit of what they can impose on you?
It feels like a very poorly disguised slap in the face.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Peace4life
Yh. Was just reading that too. I think it's a great idea. More places in the future for med school. Hopefully we will all get the chance to become doctors in the end. It makes sense. Especially after brexit. More vacancies in gp and hospital for doctors. I can only see the role of a doctor in health care become Increasingly more important. Considering all other cuts in other parts of the nhs. Good news
I echo the user above. It's the typical Hunt flashy idea without solving the underlying crisis.
Does he wonder why we don't have enough doctors. It's not just an issue of not training enough, we have terrible retention. The nhs is becoming a more unappealing place to work (and being forced to work for four years,at whatever terms they dictate, is not an appealing prospect).
What's going to happen to all these new medical students? Are the existing universities going to be able to cater for increased numbers (with little notice really). Do we need new medical schools? Are there enough placements? I know there are plenty of hospitals but not all are in reasonable distance of a medical school. Are we just going to ship these extra students to existing placements and have them fight over learning opportunities. Are we going to be able to maintain standards of training with 25% more students.
And what about afterwards. Hunt hasn't announced that foundation jobs will be increased. And say everyone sticks out their four years of indentured servitude, there certainly aren't enough specialty posts, so you're going to end up with a huge bottleneck for reg posts.
There are already huge vacancies in gp. The simple thing is, it's an unattractive career to many. Is Hunt going to dictate that these extra students have to become GP? Or be forced in to specialties with huge gaps. How far is he going to go?
As grads I would seriously warn you against signing up to a four year service. Medicine really isn't all sunshine and roses and you'll want to have the freedom to leave if you want.
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Original post by ForestCat
I echo the user above. It's the typical Hunt flashy idea without solving the underlying crisis.
Does he wonder why we don't have enough doctors. It's not just an issue of not training enough, we have terrible retention. The nhs is becoming a more unappealing place to work (and being forced to work for four years,at whatever terms they dictate, is not an appealing prospect).
What's going to happen to all these new medical students? Are the existing universities going to be able to cater for increased numbers (with little notice really). Do we need new medical schools? Are there enough placements? I know there are plenty of hospitals but not all are in reasonable distance of a medical school. Are we just going to ship these extra students to existing placements and have them fight over learning opportunities. Are we going to be able to maintain standards of training with 25% more students.
And what about afterwards. Hunt hasn't announced that foundation jobs will be increased. And say everyone sticks out their four years of indentured servitude, there certainly aren't enough specialty posts, so you're going to end up with a huge bottleneck for reg posts.
There are already huge vacancies in gp. The simple thing is, it's an unattractive career to many. Is Hunt going to dictate that these extra students have to become GP? Or be forced in to specialties with huge gaps. How far is he going to go?
As grads I would seriously warn you against signing up to a four year service. Medicine really isn't all sunshine and roses and you'll want to have the freedom to leave if you want.
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Does he wonder why we don't have enough doctors. It's not just an issue of not training enough, we have terrible retention. The nhs is becoming a more unappealing place to work (and being forced to work for four years,at whatever terms they dictate, is not an appealing prospect).
What's going to happen to all these new medical students? Are the existing universities going to be able to cater for increased numbers (with little notice really). Do we need new medical schools? Are there enough placements? I know there are plenty of hospitals but not all are in reasonable distance of a medical school. Are we just going to ship these extra students to existing placements and have them fight over learning opportunities. Are we going to be able to maintain standards of training with 25% more students.
And what about afterwards. Hunt hasn't announced that foundation jobs will be increased. And say everyone sticks out their four years of indentured servitude, there certainly aren't enough specialty posts, so you're going to end up with a huge bottleneck for reg posts.
There are already huge vacancies in gp. The simple thing is, it's an unattractive career to many. Is Hunt going to dictate that these extra students have to become GP? Or be forced in to specialties with huge gaps. How far is he going to go?
As grads I would seriously warn you against signing up to a four year service. Medicine really isn't all sunshine and roses and you'll want to have the freedom to leave if you want.
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Maybe Hunt's hoping that if there's a surplus of applicants and a lack of posts then they'll settle for GP-land.
It's actually made me nervous that doctors will be forced to work for 4 years.What if someone gets sick after university. Will they be forced to pay back the NHS their training costs because they aren't fit to work? Will he then force women who have children to pay the NHS for taking maternity leave?
Hunt literally epitomises the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Would we have a choice in whether or not we have to do 4 year mandatory service? I can't afford to pay all the fees and stuff myself.
Original post by paniking_and_not_revising
Maybe Hunt's hoping that if there's a surplus of applicants and a lack of posts then they'll settle for GP-land.
It's actually made me nervous that doctors will be forced to work for 4 years.What if someone gets sick after university. Will they be forced to pay back the NHS their training costs because they aren't fit to work? Will he then force women who have children to pay the NHS for taking maternity leave?
Hunt literally epitomises the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Would we have a choice in whether or not we have to do 4 year mandatory service? I can't afford to pay all the fees and stuff myself.
It's actually made me nervous that doctors will be forced to work for 4 years.What if someone gets sick after university. Will they be forced to pay back the NHS their training costs because they aren't fit to work? Will he then force women who have children to pay the NHS for taking maternity leave?
Hunt literally epitomises the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Would we have a choice in whether or not we have to do 4 year mandatory service? I can't afford to pay all the fees and stuff myself.
You wouldn't be able to practice medicine anywhere else without serving the 4 years. I don't know if that would mean you couldn't leave medicine at all, or just if you leave the country.
Yeah, all of those are things to think about. You would still get maternity leave, but I imagine you would still have to complete four years worth of time, even if its spread over long for mat leave etc.
Original post by ForestCat
You wouldn't be able to practice medicine anywhere else without serving the 4 years. I don't know if that would mean you couldn't leave medicine at all, or just if you leave the country.
Yeah, all of those are things to think about. You would still get maternity leave, but I imagine you would still have to complete four years worth of time, even if its spread over long for mat leave etc.
Yeah, all of those are things to think about. You would still get maternity leave, but I imagine you would still have to complete four years worth of time, even if its spread over long for mat leave etc.
So he's going to force doctors to stay in the country. I imagine that would make morale worse for the younger junior doctors who upon escaping the 4 year period would be more likely to want to leave and then wouldn't we be in the same situation as we are now? Only difference would be even more doctors looking to leave.
This government is managing to do the impossible, make medicine look like a bad career choice.
Time will tell.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Themightylaa
We must be careful of misinformation at this early stage. Has anyone seen evidence that not completing the 4 years service will result in a repayment of education fees? Or that you 'can't leave medicine'? From what I've heard so far the 4 years refers specifically to not taking overseas jobs. That basically means staying in the NHS obviously unless you use the degree for other means. Many of us would be doing this anyway... but I haven't heard anything about having to repay fees if you leave the career early.
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Yes, most people would be. But there is a difference between choosing to continue to work for the NHS and not having any other option. As it stands the NHS is the monopoly employer of Doctors in this country, so it would be a case of staying in the NHS or not practicing medicine for those first four years. No one knows if leaving medicine altogether will trigger any kind of fine, although I doubt it would. It is a deterrant to leaving to go overseas.
I think that the option of an fy3 year, or taking time off early on to travel/work abroad/locum (usually in your chosen speciality in order to gain experience for future applications) is more popular than people realise. But again, it comes down to have the freedom to decide where you want to work. Doctors already have very little choice in that (with national applications and yearly location moves), and now Hunt wants to give them even less. How much must we sacrifice?
And who is to say those 4 years will be under a favourable contract. If they can tie people in, or else they face a massive fine, they can basically dictate all terms. We have all seen the fallout of this new contract. Hunt (or whoever the health secretary is at the time) could eadily turn round and impose whatever ******** contract he wants on the 2023 graduates and they will have absolutely no leg to stand on as they are tied to the NHS.
And yes, its all conjecture at this point, but given Hunt's track record, I think we are allowed to fear the worst. And to encourage applicants to think long and hard before signing up to this. I certainly would not.
Original post by paniking_and_not_revising
So he's going to force doctors to stay in the country. I imagine that would make morale worse for the younger junior doctors who upon escaping the 4 year period would be more likely to want to leave and then wouldn't we be in the same situation as we are now? Only difference would be even more doctors looking to leave.
This government is managing to do the impossible, make medicine look like a bad career choice.
This government is managing to do the impossible, make medicine look like a bad career choice.
All it will do is shift the problem. It won't be of any benefit. You will just get people leaving with more experience under their belts, and thus more attractive to other countries.
If I didn't want to be a doctor, I'd probably laugh at the stupidity of all this.
Hey guys 
,
I am considering applying to KCL A100(5yrs) course as my last choice. Is it a wise choice since I only managed 670 in the UKCAT
On the other hand, I am predicted to achieve a first in my degree.
,I am considering applying to KCL A100(5yrs) course as my last choice. Is it a wise choice since I only managed 670 in the UKCAT
On the other hand, I am predicted to achieve a first in my degree.
Original post by paniking_and_not_revising
If I didn't want to be a doctor, I'd probably laugh at the stupidity of all this.
I've been told after getting into medicine, in hindsight, the applications process seems like a very small thing. I hope i get to realise that feeling!
Guys, we all know we would jump to the chance of studying medicine right now if we were offered it and we were told to work for 4 years in the NHS. Who wouldn't? At the end if the day, you've achieved your dream, so forget hunt and forget all the plans. At the end., its medicine afterall
Original post by Tsar101
Hey guys ,
I am considering applying to KCL A100(5yrs) course as my last choice. Is it a wise choice since I only managed 670 in the UKCAT
On the other hand, I am predicted to achieve a first in my degree.
,I am considering applying to KCL A100(5yrs) course as my last choice. Is it a wise choice since I only managed 670 in the UKCAT
On the other hand, I am predicted to achieve a first in my degree.
Will this be high enough? Im not questioning or anything just wondering..seeing as Kings is very heavy UKCAT even for the 5 year? They also do not care if u are 2:1 or 1st so that doesn't add to advantages...
what are ur a LEVEL?
Original post by GavinJR
I've been told after getting into medicine, in hindsight, the applications process seems like a very small thing. I hope i get to realise that feeling!
Lol same here. I may whinge a bit every now and then as a doctor but I'd probably still not want to change it for anything else if faced with the option.
Hey guys, I'm considering applying for the 4 year course at KCL.
I have achieved a 2:1 in Biomedical Sciences and got a UKCAT of 750. I've done 6 months of volunteering on a hospital ward, but apart from that I haven't done any relevant work experience or volunteering. I'm also applying for the 5 year course at KCL.
What are my chances like?
I have achieved a 2:1 in Biomedical Sciences and got a UKCAT of 750. I've done 6 months of volunteering on a hospital ward, but apart from that I haven't done any relevant work experience or volunteering. I'm also applying for the 5 year course at KCL.
What are my chances like?
I have a first in my degree (graduated this year) but UKCAT was average 675 so not sure how I will get on with getting an interview. Hoping that I've achieved my degree already helps me out a bit!
Does anyone know whether Barts or Southampton look at personal statement? As I don't think Warwick or Nottingham do so not sure whether I need to worry in making it great
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