SCITT vs PGCE for teacher training? Advice needed!
heya
i'm looking into becoming a primary school teacher, and was wondering if it's better to do PGCE or a SCITT(?) course.
I don't really understand the difference? do you get better qualification from university or school? which is better paid or the hardest?
I'm looking at maybe teach first but i hear you can get put in really horrible schools and that its really stressful!
does anybody have advice on where to start/ other good courses? or should i just apply to uni?
thanks in advance for the advice
i'm looking into becoming a primary school teacher, and was wondering if it's better to do PGCE or a SCITT(?) course.
I don't really understand the difference? do you get better qualification from university or school? which is better paid or the hardest?
I'm looking at maybe teach first but i hear you can get put in really horrible schools and that its really stressful!
does anybody have advice on where to start/ other good courses? or should i just apply to uni?
thanks in advance for the advice
Scroll to see replies
In the long run, it makes no difference which you do. You still end up with QTS and the ability to be a teacher.
In the short term, a PGCE is basically like being at university, but you take several weeks out at a time to do placements in schools. On the SCITT course, you will spend the majority of your time in school and only a small proportion of it doing training outside of the classroom.
They are different, and it really depends on what you prefer. I chose a SCITT because I wanted to be in the classroom most of the time. For the length of the course, I spent maybe 95% of that in the classroom. It started of easy-going, where I would teach a lesson a week, or take groups of children for specific lessons. By the end, I was teaching 80% of the lessons that I was in the classroom for. Whilst I obviously didn't do a uni-based course, I did still do a PGCE as well, so it isn't impossible to have a PGCE by doing a SCITT.
Recently, also, there has been the suggestion that people who train through SCITTs and school-based methods are more likely to remain in the profession than those who train through uni-based courses...
All in all, it makes no difference in terms of your qualifications and employability - that is affected by you and your personality. It makes a difference only based on which course you choose and the reasons you choose it. It's all up to you!
In the short term, a PGCE is basically like being at university, but you take several weeks out at a time to do placements in schools. On the SCITT course, you will spend the majority of your time in school and only a small proportion of it doing training outside of the classroom.
They are different, and it really depends on what you prefer. I chose a SCITT because I wanted to be in the classroom most of the time. For the length of the course, I spent maybe 95% of that in the classroom. It started of easy-going, where I would teach a lesson a week, or take groups of children for specific lessons. By the end, I was teaching 80% of the lessons that I was in the classroom for. Whilst I obviously didn't do a uni-based course, I did still do a PGCE as well, so it isn't impossible to have a PGCE by doing a SCITT.
Recently, also, there has been the suggestion that people who train through SCITTs and school-based methods are more likely to remain in the profession than those who train through uni-based courses...
All in all, it makes no difference in terms of your qualifications and employability - that is affected by you and your personality. It makes a difference only based on which course you choose and the reasons you choose it. It's all up to you!
One deciding factor for me to do a SCITT was the placements. On a PGCE Uni based course you get assigned a placement. Location wise, you could have a massive commute that adds loads of time and cost to your day. This could add a load of stress to the whole process.
With a SCITT, whilst you cannot guarantee what school you will be at, they tend to work in alliances of a group of schools that are close together and these are listed on their website. So you can be pretty certain that it will be one of these schools you are at (though you have to do time in 2 schools). You can often spend a few days in the schools to count as experience for your course, so you can get a feel for the school.
I did experience in 3 schools, 1 I would never want to train at, 1 that was OK and 1 head and shoulders above the others. Fortunately I got into that school for my course.
Whilst doing Experience, I spoke to some NQT's and one told me they found doing thier PGCE placements hard because they were the only 1 in the school, so found it hard to fit in and had no one to help them through the experience. With the SCITTs I looked at, you would never be in that situation.
From day 1 I will be known as an Associate Teacher, not a student or a trainee, in an effort to be more inclusive and to help with respect from students, another positive. Also because I will be in and around the school lots, it will be easier to get to know the pupils.
From what I have also read on here, the pressure whilst on a PGCE placement to get on with your contact at the school is immense, because you rely on them for a reference. Yet no/little pressure on is that contact to produce an employed teacher creates an uneven relationship, which the Student relies on. This can be very stressfull if the Student feels they are being unfairly treated as they dont want to criticise the person who will give them a reference.
With a SCITT, they want to advertise they get 100% employment to keep attracting new Students, so there is a more 2 way relationship to keep Students happy and not be unfair. A bad reference could mean they dont hit their target employment and so dont attract as many Students going forwards.
Hth
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With a SCITT, whilst you cannot guarantee what school you will be at, they tend to work in alliances of a group of schools that are close together and these are listed on their website. So you can be pretty certain that it will be one of these schools you are at (though you have to do time in 2 schools). You can often spend a few days in the schools to count as experience for your course, so you can get a feel for the school.
I did experience in 3 schools, 1 I would never want to train at, 1 that was OK and 1 head and shoulders above the others. Fortunately I got into that school for my course.
Whilst doing Experience, I spoke to some NQT's and one told me they found doing thier PGCE placements hard because they were the only 1 in the school, so found it hard to fit in and had no one to help them through the experience. With the SCITTs I looked at, you would never be in that situation.
From day 1 I will be known as an Associate Teacher, not a student or a trainee, in an effort to be more inclusive and to help with respect from students, another positive. Also because I will be in and around the school lots, it will be easier to get to know the pupils.
From what I have also read on here, the pressure whilst on a PGCE placement to get on with your contact at the school is immense, because you rely on them for a reference. Yet no/little pressure on is that contact to produce an employed teacher creates an uneven relationship, which the Student relies on. This can be very stressfull if the Student feels they are being unfairly treated as they dont want to criticise the person who will give them a reference.
With a SCITT, they want to advertise they get 100% employment to keep attracting new Students, so there is a more 2 way relationship to keep Students happy and not be unfair. A bad reference could mean they dont hit their target employment and so dont attract as many Students going forwards.
Hth
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SCITT > PGCE purely on the fact you are in a classroom. I do understand govt pressures to 'train' teachers, and you can make a better teacher by training, but nothing beats pure experience in the classroom imo. SCITT provides you with more. (I'd also recommend you look at TeachFirst though, all qualifications are stressful. What is so stressful about TF though is there is no 'easing' in period so the first term is usually very difficult. becomes easier though)
Depending on the provider, there is no difference between university led and school led. One needs to use this distinction rather than PGCE vs SCHITT because PCGE is an academic qualification and QT status is what allows you to be a teacher. Many SCHITT providers will also give you a PGCE.
The difference therefore boils down to the provider. A university will offer lectures and days in university. A SCHITT provider will do most of their training on site. The main difference however, is that if you go via university, you have no idea where you will end up or who your mentor will be. Going SCHITT you will at the very least have an idea about which schools you will be working at.
I have gone School Direct which is basically the same as the university led way, but I know which school I will be at so get the benefit of both without the rather old-fashioned way of assessment used by my school on their SCHITT trainees, but at the same time I get all the efficiency of an Outstanding school covering all the bases with awesome administrative efficiency. By comparison, my university led peers are one of 600 and are having a bit of a hard time.
So it is horses for courses but SCHITT and School Direct definitely benefit from a bit more certainty in terms of where you train.
Good luck!
PS - Avoid Teach First. You are literally thrown in at the deep end and either sink or swim.
The difference therefore boils down to the provider. A university will offer lectures and days in university. A SCHITT provider will do most of their training on site. The main difference however, is that if you go via university, you have no idea where you will end up or who your mentor will be. Going SCHITT you will at the very least have an idea about which schools you will be working at.
I have gone School Direct which is basically the same as the university led way, but I know which school I will be at so get the benefit of both without the rather old-fashioned way of assessment used by my school on their SCHITT trainees, but at the same time I get all the efficiency of an Outstanding school covering all the bases with awesome administrative efficiency. By comparison, my university led peers are one of 600 and are having a bit of a hard time.
So it is horses for courses but SCHITT and School Direct definitely benefit from a bit more certainty in terms of where you train.
Good luck!
PS - Avoid Teach First. You are literally thrown in at the deep end and either sink or swim.
Hey everyone!
Thanks for the replies!
I've decided to apply for a 2 year SCITT course called Teach in qualified. im hoping to hear from some others who have applied for the course/ are on the course.
It looks good, salaried and gradual over two years. with training days in the holidays.
What do guys think? any advice would be greatxx
Thanks for the replies!
I've decided to apply for a 2 year SCITT course called Teach in qualified. im hoping to hear from some others who have applied for the course/ are on the course.
It looks good, salaried and gradual over two years. with training days in the holidays.
What do guys think? any advice would be great
xxFrom the quick google I just did, QTS without a PGCE is fine if you dont want to teach outside England or Wales.
What subject are you doing?
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What subject are you doing?
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Original post by Sarahxxkeane
heya
i'm looking into becoming a primary school teacher, and was wondering if it's better to do PGCE or a SCITT(?) course.
I don't really understand the difference? do you get better qualification from university or school? which is better paid or the hardest?
I'm looking at maybe teach first but i hear you can get put in really horrible schools and that its really stressful!
does anybody have advice on where to start/ other good courses? or should i just apply to uni?
thanks in advance for the advice
i'm looking into becoming a primary school teacher, and was wondering if it's better to do PGCE or a SCITT(?) course.
I don't really understand the difference? do you get better qualification from university or school? which is better paid or the hardest?
I'm looking at maybe teach first but i hear you can get put in really horrible schools and that its really stressful!
does anybody have advice on where to start/ other good courses? or should i just apply to uni?
thanks in advance for the advice
Are you interested in just becoming a classroom teacher, or are you interested in pedagogy, educational policy, learning strategies and psychology etc etc?
If the former, the SCITT will do. If the latter, then a PGCE is better - it is a Level 7 academic qualification, after all. The difference is a bit like a nurse and a doctor - both can treat a range of common ailments, but the doctor has a lot more knowledge about the mechanism of the disease, options for treatment and possibly outcomes. The nurse has just learnt one way to deal with it, and uses that as an adequate treatment because it just 'seems to work'. A crude analogy. but you understand the point.
Original post by bob0079
From the quick google I just did, QTS without a PGCE is fine if you dont want to teach outside England or Wales.
What subject are you doing?
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What subject are you doing?
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Just Primary in general not secondary, so not one subject
Original post by Reality Check
Are you interested in just becoming a classroom teacher, or are you interested in pedagogy, educational policy, learning strategies and psychology etc etc?
If the former, the SCITT will do. If the latter, then a PGCE is better - it is a Level 7 academic qualification, after all. The difference is a bit like a nurse and a doctor - both can treat a range of common ailments, but the doctor has a lot more knowledge about the mechanism of the disease, options for treatment and possibly outcomes. The nurse has just learnt one way to deal with it, and uses that as an adequate treatment because it just 'seems to work'. A crude analogy. but you understand the point.
If the former, the SCITT will do. If the latter, then a PGCE is better - it is a Level 7 academic qualification, after all. The difference is a bit like a nurse and a doctor - both can treat a range of common ailments, but the doctor has a lot more knowledge about the mechanism of the disease, options for treatment and possibly outcomes. The nurse has just learnt one way to deal with it, and uses that as an adequate treatment because it just 'seems to work'. A crude analogy. but you understand the point.
I just want to be a Primary teacher, I'm not great at phycology unfortunately x
Original post by Sarahxxkeane
I just want to be a Primary teacher, I'm not great at phycology unfortunately x
OK - but perhaps you should know that there's a HUGE amount of psychology and learning strategy work in Early Years.
SCITT might suit you more if you're less academically-minded and just want to be a classroom teacher, but pedagogy and academic research will stand you in better stead to hone your craft of teaching.
At the end of mine they have a parter Uni so I can get a PGCE accreditation if I want, as I do all the same work and profile building apparently.
the provider is called Teach in Qualified, they're a little like premier pathways but train you the whole time and seem to be more supportive in general?
hopefully anyway
the provider is called Teach in Qualified, they're a little like premier pathways but train you the whole time and seem to be more supportive in general?
hopefully anyway
I wouldnt do it.
It looks like it is set up by a recruitment agency, so I question what they know about Teacher Training.
The first 12 months as a TA doesnt seem needed, IMO. If a Primary PGCE can do the course in 12 months, why do 2 years of training, for a lower qualification? 12 months is hard enough, 2 years would be too long for me.
Yes, I understand the Financial side, but I would rather pay for the course, and the added costs, knowing what I was going to get out of it, knowing in 12 months I have a PGCE and QTS.
The first 12 months could be almost like slave labour. Your being a TA, with minimal training, but what if there is an issue? What comeback do you have? If you quit the TA job are you off the course? What if you get all the really crappy jobs because you cant quit?
I would also ask What do the recruitment company get out of it? How do they make money? Cos they will only be doing this for a profit. What if they go bust?
What do UCAS say about it? Why is it not run through them? Who awards the qualification?
Can you speak to someone on the course? Someone who has finished the course? Someone who has dropped out?
£15k as a wage is not much after tax, NI etc. Yes, much than £9k fees and student loans, but enough to live on? You wont get a student loan on top of this. How far for the commute? Cost of that?
Maybe I am being too negative, but these are the questions I would be asking.
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It looks like it is set up by a recruitment agency, so I question what they know about Teacher Training.
The first 12 months as a TA doesnt seem needed, IMO. If a Primary PGCE can do the course in 12 months, why do 2 years of training, for a lower qualification? 12 months is hard enough, 2 years would be too long for me.
Yes, I understand the Financial side, but I would rather pay for the course, and the added costs, knowing what I was going to get out of it, knowing in 12 months I have a PGCE and QTS.
The first 12 months could be almost like slave labour. Your being a TA, with minimal training, but what if there is an issue? What comeback do you have? If you quit the TA job are you off the course? What if you get all the really crappy jobs because you cant quit?
I would also ask What do the recruitment company get out of it? How do they make money? Cos they will only be doing this for a profit. What if they go bust?
What do UCAS say about it? Why is it not run through them? Who awards the qualification?
Can you speak to someone on the course? Someone who has finished the course? Someone who has dropped out?
£15k as a wage is not much after tax, NI etc. Yes, much than £9k fees and student loans, but enough to live on? You wont get a student loan on top of this. How far for the commute? Cost of that?
Maybe I am being too negative, but these are the questions I would be asking.
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Is there anything stopping you doing a Scitt/Teach first or regular PGCE?
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Original post by bob0079
I wouldnt do it.
It looks like it is set up by a recruitment agency, so I question what they know about Teacher Training.
The first 12 months as a TA doesnt seem needed, IMO. If a Primary PGCE can do the course in 12 months, why do 2 years of training, for a lower qualification? 12 months is hard enough, 2 years would be too long for me.
Yes, I understand the Financial side, but I would rather pay for the course, and the added costs, knowing what I was going to get out of it, knowing in 12 months I have a PGCE and QTS.
The first 12 months could be almost like slave labour. Your being a TA, with minimal training, but what if there is an issue? What comeback do you have? If you quit the TA job are you off the course? What if you get all the really crappy jobs because you cant quit?
I would also ask What do the recruitment company get out of it? How do they make money? Cos they will only be doing this for a profit. What if they go bust?
What do UCAS say about it? Why is it not run through them? Who awards the qualification?
Can you speak to someone on the course? Someone who has finished the course? Someone who has dropped out?
£15k as a wage is not much after tax, NI etc. Yes, much than £9k fees and student loans, but enough to live on? You wont get a student loan on top of this. How far for the commute? Cost of that?
Maybe I am being too negative, but these are the questions I would be asking.
Posted from TSR Mobile
It looks like it is set up by a recruitment agency, so I question what they know about Teacher Training.
The first 12 months as a TA doesnt seem needed, IMO. If a Primary PGCE can do the course in 12 months, why do 2 years of training, for a lower qualification? 12 months is hard enough, 2 years would be too long for me.
Yes, I understand the Financial side, but I would rather pay for the course, and the added costs, knowing what I was going to get out of it, knowing in 12 months I have a PGCE and QTS.
The first 12 months could be almost like slave labour. Your being a TA, with minimal training, but what if there is an issue? What comeback do you have? If you quit the TA job are you off the course? What if you get all the really crappy jobs because you cant quit?
I would also ask What do the recruitment company get out of it? How do they make money? Cos they will only be doing this for a profit. What if they go bust?
What do UCAS say about it? Why is it not run through them? Who awards the qualification?
Can you speak to someone on the course? Someone who has finished the course? Someone who has dropped out?
£15k as a wage is not much after tax, NI etc. Yes, much than £9k fees and student loans, but enough to live on? You wont get a student loan on top of this. How far for the commute? Cost of that?
Maybe I am being too negative, but these are the questions I would be asking.
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I've been looking into this course also, and i just called them asking these questions (almost all of them anyway). My friend is already on it. He said they dont put you in a school randomly you have to meet the school first, and you train for the first two terms then start teaching at the end of the first year. There's training days every half term and you get an in school mentor which the school has to provide (apparently). It's run using a SCITT provider who also award the QTS status. i can also apply for PGCE qualification if i need to at the end of it. My friend said the SCITT provider are pretty on the ball and he likes them, after he tried doing a simlar thing with premier pathways.
Who is the SCITT provider?
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Original post by bob0079
Not enough experience/ not high enough grades for teach first, I did apply to them first. PGCE isn't a very good bursary for Primary and don't really want to pay the extra tuition fees. Didn't get accepted to st Mary's where I applied.
Then make sure you ask lots of questions and are happy with the answers. Get in touch with UCAS/whichever Govt scheme is currently helping with recruitment. See what they say.
Go into it with your eyes open and make sure that you are confortable with the setup.
Good Luck!
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Go into it with your eyes open and make sure that you are confortable with the setup.
Good Luck!
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