An &quot;intermediate&quot; tier should be brought back for GCSE maths

Discussions with employers have revealed that there is too much confusion with mathematics grades - a C can mean almost anything. So will a 5 under the new grading system. What they prefer is:

1. A qualification (not a GCSE) based around arithmetic, money calculations, and everyday maths.

2. A qualification (a GCSE) based around real maths - like algebra, trigonometry etc.

Every student will take #1 regardless of their ability, but only higher ability students will take #2 as it will only be available at higher level.

Reply 3

Original post by Arran90

Discussions with employers have revealed that there is too much confusion with mathematics grades - a C can mean almost anything. So will a 5 under the new grading system. What they prefer is:

1. A qualification (not a GCSE) based around arithmetic, money calculations, and everyday maths.

2. A qualification (a GCSE) based around real maths - like algebra, trigonometry etc.

Every student will take #1 regardless of their ability, but only higher ability students will take #2 as it will only be available at higher level.

So they prefer Functional Skills maths and GCSE maths?

The IB already do something similar with their Diploma Programme's new maths curriculum, but this is more for A Level-standard maths.

@Sir Cumference I like this idea. Time to bump the thread.

Reply 4

Original post by Tolgarda

So they prefer Functional Skills maths and GCSE maths?

Yes. Higher level is designed to prepare students for the A Level and Level 3 courses, or for students who desire knowledge of real maths or want a career that uses real maths, whereas if students want a job working in a restaurant or as a carpet fitter then most employers are only interested in their numeracy ability and not how good they are at 3D trigonometry or factorising polynomials.

It's horses for courses and the old CSE and O Level qualifications provided two good horses for these different courses that the GCSE doesn't.

Reply 5

Original post by Arran90

Yes. Higher level is designed to prepare students for the A Level and Level 3 courses, or for students who desire knowledge of real maths or want a career that uses real maths, whereas if students want a job working in a restaurant or as a carpet fitter then most employers are only interested in their numeracy ability and not how good they are at 3D trigonometry or factorising polynomials.

It's horses for courses and the old CSE and O Level qualifications provided two good horses for these different courses that the GCSE doesn't.

Functional Skills = good substitute for CSE.

GCSE = substitute for O Level.

Reply 6

Original post by Tolgarda

GCSE = substitute for O Level.

Not at foundation or the now defunct intermediate levels. They were intended as the replacements for the CSE.

Reply 7

Original post by Arran90

Not at foundation or the now defunct intermediate levels. They were intended as the replacements for the CSE.

Okay, but you can't deny that Functional Skills is the CSE substitute.

Reply 8

Original post by Tolgarda

Okay, but you can't deny that Functional Skills is the CSE substitute.

True. However my proposal is to have it, or a similar qualification:

1. As a recognised qualification by employers for basic jobs.

2. Every secondary school student to take the exam regardless of their ability.

3. The maths GCSE is only available at higher level and is only taken by students who are of sufficiently high ability and have an interest in learning real maths.

Reply 9

Take into account that when intermediate level existed it was a bit more advanced than today's foundation level with a few real maths topics, and the old foundation level was just primary school maths and easier than the KS2 SATS exam.

It could be argued that today's foundation level superseded the old intermediate level, and the old foundation level has been discontinued as a GCSE.

Reply 10

999tigger

19

Disagree you should have 3 maths exams, but think the foundation should have the scope to go up to 6, which is whats needed for A level.

Reply 11

999tigger

19

They arent given a choice though.

Reply 12

1st superstar

22

Original post by Sir Cumference

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/276110 (not created by me)

For 9-1 GCSE maths in England there are two exams:

Foundation: Available grades U, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Higher : Available grades U, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

For the higher paper, 50% of the marks are targeted at grades 4-6 and 50% are targeted at grades 7-9. This has meant that grade 4/5 students are not able to demonstrate their ability in over half of the paper and this has led to grade boundaries of below 20% for grade 4. However hard an exam is, getting less than 20% does not demonstrate enough mathematical ability to achieve a passing grade in my opinion.

Some may argue that this is what the foundation paper is designed for but when schools are seeing such low boundaries for the higher paper you can understand why they would choose it for their grade 4/5 students.

Proposal : create an intermediate paper (like there has been in the past). Possible structure

Foundation: Available grades U, 1, 2, 3, 4
Intermediate : Available grades U, 4, 5, 6, 7
Higher : Available grades U, 6, 7, 8, 9

Possible downsides : cost, more confusion, more U grades and retakes

good idea (but obviously make it so that a 4 is a "Strong pass" but 3 is still not a pass)

A 4 isn't a fail, a 4 is a pass.

Reply 14

Muttley79

Original post by Sir Cumference

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/276110 (not created by me)

For 9-1 GCSE maths in England there are two exams:

Foundation: Available grades U, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Higher : Available grades U, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

For the higher paper, 50% of the marks are targeted at grades 4-6 and 50% are targeted at grades 7-9. This has meant that grade 4/5 students are not able to demonstrate their ability in over half of the paper and this has led to grade boundaries of below 20% for grade 4. However hard an exam is, getting less than 20% does not demonstrate enough mathematical ability to achieve a passing grade in my opinion.

Some may argue that this is what the foundation paper is designed for but when schools are seeing such low boundaries for the higher paper you can understand why they would choose it for their grade 4/5 students.

Proposal : create an intermediate paper (like there has been in the past). Possible structure

Foundation: Available grades U, 1, 2, 3, 4
Intermediate : Available grades U, 4, 5, 6, 7
Higher : Available grades U, 6, 7, 8, 9

Possible downsides : cost, more confusion, more U grades and retakes

The old Intermediate was not structured like that; the grades were more like E,D,C, B.

It's the weighting between different graded questions that's causing a challenge for 3/4/5/6 students

Reply 15

Original post by 999tigger

Disagree you should have 3 maths exams, but think the foundation should have the scope to go up to 6, which is whats needed for A level.

Except that almost all colleges only admit students onto mathematics (and often physics) A Level courses who have studied mathematics to higher level at GCSE (or can otherwise demonstrate knowledge and proficiency) because knowledge of real maths topics from the higher level is essential in order to study these A Levels.

Reply 16

999tigger

19

Original post by Arran90

Except that almost all colleges only admit students onto mathematics (and often physics) A Level courses who have studied mathematics to higher level at GCSE (or can otherwise demonstrate knowledge and proficiency) because knowledge of real maths topics from the higher level is essential in order to study these A Levels.

Except this is theoretical and JCQ would simply alter the content to take that into account. Thanks though.

Reply 17

Original post by 999tigger

Except this is theoretical and JCQ would simply alter the content to take that into account. Thanks though.

Like make the intermediate level have 90% of the curriculum content of the current higher level with questions of similar difficulty. That's the only way that it will adequately prepare students for the A Level course.

The higher level will have to be altered as a result and include additional topics including several of those from the existing A Level syllabus such as calculus.

IMO the reformed higher level mathematics GCSE is the most academically rigorous syllabus since the days of O Levels in the 1980s and is possibly more so than the IGCSE is.

Reply 18