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    No, if someone wants to wear it they should be allowed to.
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    cvu;'
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    And how exactly would such a ban be enforceable? Or is this just a 'point-making' exercise?
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    Interesting to note, the Grand Mosques of France are supporting behind the ban. And were more explicit in their condemnation of the niqab than the President. It would lead into some kind of theological dispute in which the government picks sides.
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    I strongly disagree that full face veils should be forbidden, for all the reasons that others have given for disagreeing. And because it would mean that you'd have to ban the wearing of these delightful creations, too:




    (If you're itching to knit yourself one, the patterns can be downloaded here: http://www.outsapop.com/2008_01_01_archive.html)
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    (Original post by HDS)
    No, however it should be treated in exactly the same way as a balaclava or motorcycle helmet.
    How are they treated :confused: With antibiotics :lolwut: ?
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    (Original post by Earthly)
    It’s an impossible situation. I’m more than happy for a woman to wear it if she genuinely wants to and it makes her feel comfortable, after all it’s not hurting anyone. But I don’t like fact that some men impose it on women. I don’t think wearing them should be banned, but I think an effort should be made to address the pressure some women are faced with.
    Agreed. :yep:
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    (Original post by dmae)
    I think Muslim people should wear vader masks instead of face veils.
    Yes
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    (Original post by Jeester)
    Ban the veil and you should ban every other religous symbol. Which I'm all for.
    Anti-religious persecution is just as bad as religious persecution.
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    (Original post by Cinematographic)
    The face veil's popularity is part of the growth in Fundamentalism and the abandonment of Classical Islam. The sad truth is most Muslims have no idea of the difference between the two.

    As to the broader question...No I wouldn't 'ban' it. It's illiberal and gives the fundies. something to martyr themselves over.
    Nice and logical will rep tomorrow. Well yeah I agree what's the point doing this kind of futile, authoritarian thing when it could have consequences on your national security. I'am actually for banning it in schools an hospitals etc. but in public banning it becomes stupid and illogical.
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    It wont get banned, and why should it,
    Why do people always talk about the veil when they dont adopt the veil themselves?
    Don't be so utterly ignorant.
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    I don't think a full on ban is fair as we are supposed to be a free country - even though I hate the bloody things myself. Each to their own. Its no different to guys who walk around with their jeans hanging off their bums so you can see their underwear, it's a personal choice, even if the majority of others don't like it.

    However, saying that it shouldn't be full on banned - if I can't walk around a shopping centre with my hood up without being told to remove it or having a security guard follow me around then yes - the veil should certainly be banned in places like that. Double standards. And I've seen it, I've been told to take my hood down as I was walking into a shopping centre from the rain outside and planning to walk straight through the centre and out the other side back into the rain. I asked why, I was told it was for security purposes and the benefit of other shoppers. In front of me was a Muslim lady wearing a full head scarf, with only her eyes visible and she wasn't stopped. Can anyone honestly say that is fair?
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    (Original post by Eiz)
    I don't think a full on ban is fair as we are supposed to be a free country - even though I hate the bloody things myself. Each to their own, but I think its demeaning to the person wearing it and rude to the person they are having a conversation with. But whatever. Its no different to guys who walk around with their jeans hanging off their bums so you can see their underwear, it's a personal choice, even if the majority of others don't like it.

    However, saying that it shouldn't be full on banned - if I can't walk around a shopping centre with my hood up without being told to remove it or having a security guard follow me around then yes - the veil should certainly be banned in places like that. Double standards. And I've seen it, I've been told to take my hood down as I was walking into a shopping centre from the rain outside and planning to walk straight through the centre and out the other side back into the rain. I asked why, I was told it was for security purposes and the benefit of other shoppers. In front of me was a Muslim lady wearing a full head scarf, with only her eyes visible and she wasn't stopped.
    I think that's fair.

    It has no link to the Islam of South Asia, just as it has not link to the practices of (largely north African arabs) French Muslims. As a result, most women who do wear it do so themselves and are not forced into it. They have essentially rejected their own traditions in favour of a Saudi gulf custom. That's the most worrying aspect.
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    (Original post by MaceyThe)
    There's clear orders to kill homosexuals in the Bible, but we've banned that.....
    And there's nothing in the Qur'an about wearing a burka.
    True, but I wish people would treat the veil issue on its own, instead of complicating it with unnecessary ideas about another party's religious views.

    From a liberty-preserving point of view, one could argue that people should be allowed to wear these veils because it is part of their belief system (in this case religion) to do so. Just because it is not Qur'anically required doesn't mean that society can justify banning it because it will still have a big impact on the women who wear veils. And who are we / the de facto secular State to tell people what their personal religious views are.

    Don't ban the veil for Muslims; don't ban it for individuals who desire to wear one, whether it is required by Islam is a whole other debate (though I would agree with you that it is not - women are not meant to be veiled during Hajj, the Muslim pilgrimage ffs!).
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    (Original post by Cinematographic)
    I think that's fair.
    Can you explain why you think its fair? The security guard said I had to take my hood down so other shoppers felt secure and so the security cameras could see my face. The cameras could see my face better with my hood up - since a hood doesn't cover your face - than they could see the lady with the veil as all you could see was her eyes.
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    (Original post by a.posteriori)
    Anti-religious persecution is just as bad as religious persecution.
    Huh?
    How is it?
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    (Original post by Eiz)
    Can you explain why you think its fair? The security guard said I had to take my hood down so other shoppers felt secure and so the security cameras could see my face. The cameras could see my face better with my hood up - since a hood doesn't cover your face - than they could see the lady with the veil as all you could see was her eyes.
    I meant I thought your point was fair.

    Despite being Muslim myself. I and my family are not fans of the burqha/niqab. I think it's fair to restrict it on the grounds of security. However, as much as I despise the garment. I am against a public ban.
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    True, but I wish people would treat the veil issue on its own, instead of complicating it with unnecessary ideas about another party's religious views.

    From a liberty-preserving point of view, one could argue that people should be allowed to wear these veils because it is part of their belief system (in this case religion) to do so. Just because it is not Qur'anically required doesn't mean that society can justify banning it because it will still have a big impact on the women who wear veils. And who are we / the de facto secular State to tell people what their personal religious views are.

    Don't ban the veil for Muslims; don't ban it for individuals who desire to wear one, whether it is required by Islam is a whole other debate (though I would agree with you that it is not - women are not meant to be veiled during Hajj, the Muslim pilgrimage ffs!).
    Agreed. However in regard to say private spaces. Do shopping malls, banks, have the right to restrict it?
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    (Original post by Cinematographic)
    I meant I thought your point was fair.

    Despite being Muslim myself. I and my family are not fans of the burqha/niqab. I think it's fair to restrict it on the grounds of security. However, as much as I despise the garment. I am against a public ban.
    Ah, sorry I'd edited my post as you replied to add 'Can anyone say that this is fair?' onto the end, I didn't look to see when you'd replied, so it read like you were saying 'yes, it's fair'.

    I'm on the same stance as you, obviously - except for the being a Muslim part. I think it should be restricted but not banned outright. And the double standards should certainly be cut - the 'its part of my religion' excuse isn't an excuse when it comes to public safety and security.
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    No, we can do better than the French and we should set the better example
 
 
 
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