2010 applicants....APPLICATIONS, INTERVIEWS, OFFERS [Mark 2]

should shooting/hunting even happen??

YES!!!!!! :p:

i could argue my way for hours but i guess its because of where i live, where ive grown up. But to be fair, ive seen it, ive done it, ive been involved for years and i love it, i do alot of outside reading on these subjects and know alot about it including opposing views. so i think my opinion is a lot more justified than people that havnt seen/done it and dont understand, YES it has alot to do with tradition but both shooting and hunting have changed HUGELY in the last 10 years and ive seen all those changes take place.

oh and thought id mention i got asked at glasgee "How can you be involved in shooting animals when you want to be a vet and care for them?"
it also came up at bristol and liverpool as i openly told both interviewers im involved in shooting and country sports :biggrin:

good luck at RVC harrisboy!!!!!

Reply 823

Talon19921992

Rachhyyyy

should shooting/hunting even happen??

YES!!!!!! :p:

i could argue my way for hours but i guess its because of where i live, where ive grown up. But to be fair, ive seen it, ive done it, ive been involved for years and i love it, i do alot of outside reading on these subjects and know alot about it including opposing views. so i think my opinion is a lot more justified than people that havnt seen/done it and dont understand, YES it has alot to do with tradition but both shooting and hunting have changed HUGELY in the last 10 years and ive seen all those changes take place.

Falconry, on the other hand has hardly changed at all! (apart from the use of transmitters to track down lost birds! and perhaps movement from use of the common buzzard to the wonderful Harris) To be fair though, we are probably bogged down in tradition a lot more than those who shoot, and the training of birds doesn't really need to be changed.

Are people less against falconry because it appears more natural than shooting, or have you just decided not to comment?!? :p:

I know I always bring it up! :p:

But it would certainly be interesting to know your opinion on this!!!

Reply 824

oaktrees

Edinburgh rejection :frown:

Still, 2 out of 4 interviews isn't bad this year, especially when i thought my work ex was a bit shoddy compared to all you lot! I wonder why they kept me hanging on so long to do it though! Still, Bristol in a couple of weeks, I am excited and realistic about that.

Missed all the rest of the debates last night, but have learnt a lot from reading all your opinions! I'm going to look further into tail docking, but as someone (I think Emily?) said, I would like to see some statistics from Scotland's blanket ban in a few years time to see whether that has had an effect on the number of dogs being brought in because they have got their tails caught. At the moment though, to me the evidence suggests that for working dogs it remains the most sensible option.

Reply 825

oaktrees

Edinburgh rejection :frown:

Still, 2 out of 4 interviews isn't bad this year, especially when i thought my work ex was a bit shoddy compared to all you lot! I wonder why they kept me hanging on so long to do it though! Still, Bristol in a couple of weeks, I am excited and realistic about that.

Missed all the rest of the debates last night, but have learnt a lot from reading all your opinions! I'm going to look further into tail docking, but as someone (I think Emily?) said, I would like to see some statistics from Scotland's blanket ban in a few years time to see whether that has had an effect on the number of dogs being brought in because they have got their tails caught. At the moment though, to me the evidence suggests that for working dogs it remains the most sensible option.

Sorry Oaktrees :frown:

Did you get an interview for Ed?

Yay for Bristol :smile:

I hope it goes well :smile:

Reply 826

penelopehardwich

Hello.

New to posting on TSR but have been following for a while. I'm a graduate student with offers from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Bristol - just waiting to see how I got on at Nottingham (think it went very well).

Lots of good debating going on. Thought I'd give my thoughts - I am not a 'townie' and have been involved in country life so I'm not a crazy bunny hugger!!

Docking - I support a total ban. The evidence for tail injury appears to me to be very anecdotal. Is there any published data on incidence of injury in working dogs? I know of a couple of papers on non-working breeds which show injury isn't a major problem - hence the ban. Suppose we will just have to wait for data from Scotland to come out. Just because a handful of dogs get injured tails doesn't justify chopping off all dogs tails does it? Dogs have evolved with a tail so if it was such a problem to have one surely docked tails would naturally have evolved? I know tails stick out but so do legs and ears - I am sure working spaniels ears must get pulled, cut, injured but is anyone saying we must chop them off too? If the risk of injury is so great then by choosing to shoot aren't you are causing unnecessary suffering to the dog (if you didn't want it injured you shouldn't put it in danger). You (and your dog) has a choice - you don't have to shoot!

I got asked about whether I'd dock at one of my interviews too. I said I wouldn't. If the client insisted I'd tell them it was illegal and if they did it what the penalties would be. I'd then get straight on the phone to the RSPCA and report them (only joking :yep:

)

Shooting: I personally don't see why you'd want to shoot if you had the choice not to. Suppose if you eat what you shoot you could argue the birds had a better life than farmed poultry - but do they? Rearing conditions and practices often cause unnecessary suffering to commercially reared game birds (I did work experience on a pheasant rearing unit) so I'd always opt for a free-range chicken over a game bird. Would shooters say it is OK to go to a free range turkey unit and blast them with shot when it is scientifically proven that this is not a humane method of slaughter? I really don't know why anyone would want to blast a bird out of the sky - if you really can't live without blasting something why not go for a clay pigeon instead! Drag hunters have adapted so why can't shooters.

Hawking: I've not actually been out hawking to know anything about how the quarry are killed but I assume it is all pretty quick. My concern here isn't so much with the quarry but with the hawks themselves. Again, having done work experience at a falconry centre I really don't see the justification in keeping birds of prey in captivity. DEPRESSING! Yes I know if the birds are in work they get taken out for a couple of hours flight but is this enough to allow them to express their natural behaviour. There is nothing sadder than seeing a bird of prey in an aviary sitting on a perch flapping its wings every now and again! Keeping birds for falconry also encourages taking birds illegally from the wild. There might be very good bird of prey keepers but at my centre they took in rescue birds which were bought by owners and just tethered to a perch for 24 hours a day. Not much of a life if you ask me! Don't get me started on keeping canaries and budgies as pets....

Disbudding: The research shows that even when local anaesthetics are used there is some discomfort after the procedure. However, I do appreciate having horned stock can cause safety and welfare problems on a farm. I think the way forward is to breed for polled cattle - that way the majority of disbudding can be prevented. Prevention is better than cure!

Anyway, thought I'd add that into the debate.
Penny x

Reply 827

Talon19921992

penelopehardwich

Hawking: I've not actually been out hawking to know anything about how the quarry are killed but I assume it is all pretty quick. My concern here isn't so much with the quarry but with the hawks themselves. Again, having done work experience at a falconry centre I really don't see the justification in keeping birds of prey in captivity. DEPRESSING! Yes I know if the birds are in work they get taken out for a couple of hours flight but is this enough to allow them to express their natural behaviour. There is nothing sadder than seeing a bird of prey in an aviary sitting on a perch flapping its wings every now and again! Keeping birds for falconry also encourages taking birds illegally from the wild. There might be very good bird of prey keepers but at my centre they took in rescue birds which were bought by owners and just tethered to a perch for 24 hours a day. Not much of a life if you ask me! Don't get me started on keeping canaries and budgies as pets....

Anyway, thought I'd add that into the debate.
Penny x

That was probably the most detailed first post I have ever seen!!! :p:

The welfare of birds of prey varies from centre to centre. I support my centre hugely, they do a great job! Regarding the death of quarry, not quick, so the falconer intervenes and makes it quick (respect for quarry etc).

Regarding the birds, I believe if a bird can be flown then it must, with nearly all the birds I have worked with, if they are trainable they are flown. You will also know having worked in a centre that birds have their annual moult. Centres do not generally fly birds that are in moult, they are therefore kept in aviaries (should be the correct size with significant visual stimulation).

I completed a course that taught me everything I needed to know to keep, train, hunt and look after my own bird. I personally believe that there should be a lisencing system, by which people have to have completed a course to own a bird and this would solve the problem of bad falconers because I am not denying they do exist.

Frankly with our birds, they can fly off if they don't like the system and some indeed do.

Edit: I have tried to address all the points you brought up, but haven't got time to phrase it correctly now! Got a driving test now sooo...

Reply 828

I don't know much about falconry, but it seems to be just another form of bloodsport, of which I cannot see is of any necessity. You have even said yourself that the kill is not quick, and the falconer must assist in the process. The birds are kept in captivity, and are trained to perform tasks againt their will. It may seem a more natural form of sport, but it can no way be veiwed as the bird having a free life. And as the new poster said, it is depressing to see the bird tied up, making attempt to flap its wings.
Both the kill and the bird are suffering.

I know my view may seem pretty thin. But as I said, I don't know much about it, and haven't ever tried it, but have viewed it being carried out.

Reply 829

sami4132

penelopehardwich

Docking - I support a total ban. The evidence for tail injury appears to me to be very anecdotal. Is there any published data on incidence of injury in working dogs? Just because a handful of dogs get injured tails doesn't justify chopping off all dogs tails does it? Dogs have evolved with a tail so if it was such a problem to have one surely docked tails would naturally have evolved? I know tails stick out but so do legs and ears - I am sure working spaniels ears must get pulled, cut, injured but is anyone saying we must chop them off too? If the risk of injury is so great then by choosing to shoot aren't you are causing unnecessary suffering to the dog (if you didn't want it injured you shouldn't put it in danger). You (and your dog) has a choice - you don't have to shoot!

I got asked about whether I'd dock at one of my interviews too. I said I wouldn't. If the client insisted I'd tell them it was illegal and if they did it what the penalties would be. I'd then get straight on the phone to the RSPCA and report them (only joking :yep:

)

Hawking: I've not actually been out hawking to know anything about how the quarry are killed but I assume it is all pretty quick. My concern here isn't so much with the quarry but with the hawks themselves. Again, having done work experience at a falconry centre I really don't see the justification in keeping birds of prey in captivity. DEPRESSING! Yes I know if the birds are in work they get taken out for a couple of hours flight but is this enough to allow them to express their natural behaviour. There is nothing sadder than seeing a bird of prey in an aviary sitting on a perch flapping its wings every now and again! Keeping birds for falconry also encourages taking birds illegally from the wild. There might be very good bird of prey keepers but at my centre they took in rescue birds which were bought by owners and just tethered to a perch for 24 hours a day. Not much of a life if you ask me! Don't get me started on keeping canaries and budgies as pets....

Disbudding: The research shows that even when local anaesthetics are used there is some discomfort after the procedure. However, I do appreciate having horned stock can cause safety and welfare problems on a farm. I think the way forward is to breed for polled cattle - that way the majority of disbudding can be prevented. Prevention is better than cure!

Anyway, thought I'd add that into the debate.
Penny x

Okay, woah, lots of debating going on, I like it! I guess I need to stay on TSR longer into the night to get involved :wink:

Here are a few of my views and some more things to consider / ask yourself:

I don't support tail docking because as Penny said, there just doesn't seem to be enough evidence out there to support the claims that not docking even working breeds will cause severe injuries later on.
I deffinately don't support docking for aesthetic purposes.
With working breeds, because so many are now being kept as family pets, i think it's just too difficult to really assess whether the dog will truely be used as a working dog (if they are it might be advisable to dock in some breeds, depending on the work, like you said Rachy). Also, although I would always want to trust the owners that come to me as a vet, you can't be sure if they are really going to use the dog for work, or are just telling you that because they want the tail docked for whatever personal reasons (overall breed conformation, aesthetics etc.)
I also think it's really good of everyone to be open enough to consider the information that will hopefully come out of Scotland :smile:

On another note, what you said Penny about evolution etc. I don't think you can really look at this issue from that pov because we have pretty much created new behaviours in dogs because we've bred so many different breeds. As Rachy said, spaniels have hunting bred into their character, but haven't had the tail bred out of them because that doesn't seem to be possible (genes, alleles etc won't go into it :eek:

). So spaniels are pretty different to wolves in terms of their hunting techniques so the evolution part of the discussion, i dunno how appropraite it is...

Shooting and hawking I know too little about so i won't comment until I've researched more...although I think if people are ok with keeping horses in stables and dogs in houses (true, longer domestication period, more used to it, but still), then keeping birds in aviaries isn't that far away from these practices, so I don't think that can be argued as cruel if you agree with these other housing practices...

Dehorning in calves I don't have an issue with. i've seen it done on numerous occasions and the calves never seemed too stressed by it or in too much pain. They were sedated for the proceedure and trotted off back to their holding pens afterwards much the same as they were before, so I don't see that it causes too much pain and seems a better option than the damage that could be caused later due to close contact between animals in barns. That being said, i've also spoken to some farmers who don't dehorn and they don't have that many issues...but because, according to my subjective observations, the proceedure doesn't seem to cause that much suffering I'm not against it. But I do fully agree that breeding the horns out is a good way to prevent dehorning in the first place :wink:

Finally, on the complimentary medicine issue, I don't really agree with homeopathic medicines, because I think they can cause prolonged suffering for an animal because they are often less strong and take more time to work than modern medicines. However, I think that physiotherapy for arthritic joints and after surgery is very good as it helps to ensure good mobility and makes sure that no further muscle damage is caused by the animal wrongly using muscle groups after surgery (saw a case of a lab who had knee surgery and then didn't want to put weight back on its leg and ended up with shorted muscles in that leg because owners didn't want physiotherapy from the start, now the physio is helping only really minimally and slowly, which could have been prevented...)

there, comment away!

Reply 830

Would the farm that I went to still be termed Beef farming even though the farmer only had a relatively small amount of cattle (i'm going to say 80 or so), as had lost many due to the F&M outbreak in 2007?

Farmer did say something about sending some cows off to abatoir, but it didn't seem to be a constant thing. So I am kinda confused. Don't want to put it down as beef farm if it is not, because I could potentially get myself into an awkward situation in the interview, where I don't know much about it. :s-smilie:

Reply 831

starfall

woah lots of debating!
sorry about the ed rejection oaktrees :frown:

does anyone know what email address ur ment to use to tell nottingham if you wnated to take up their offer of a course transfer? coz i forgot to email them and i want them to update my ucas :p:

Reply 832

Kurzyk

5

My interview is still like a week and a half away but Im already panicking cause I hate getting lost. T_T So to anyone who has had an interview in Nottingham or knows Nottingham:

How do you get from the Nottingham train station to the Sutton Bonington Campus? D:

Reply 833

starfall

woah lots of debating!
sorry about the ed rejection oaktrees :frown:

does anyone know what email address ur ment to use to tell nottingham if you wnated to take up their offer of a course transfer? coz i forgot to email them and i want them to update my ucas :p:

I was considering taking it up anyway, even though I would not go there. But went to check what I had to do yesterday on the letter, and it saying in bold that the offer for course transfer expires on the 12 feb at 17.00.
So I don't know if it is possible to ask anymore.
You are just meant to write to the school of biosciences, should be on the letter. If you can't find it, I will go check mine for you. Let me know :smile:

Also, why on earth would you need to??! You have an unconditional!!!!!! :smile:

Reply 834

but i reckon most people breeding dogs in scotland (working spaniels and HPR's) will just bring them to england to dock them so the data wont show anything at all!!!!!!

Reply 835

ViolinGirl

Would the farm that I went to still be termed Beef farming even though the farmer only had a relatively small amount of cattle (i'm going to say 80 or so), as had lost many due to the F&M outbreak in 2007?

Farmer did say something about sending some cows off to abatoir, but it didn't seem to be a constant thing. So I am kinda confused. Don't want to put it down as beef farm if it is not, because I could potentially get myself into an awkward situation in the interview, where I don't know much about it. :s-smilie:

wel was he farming beef animals??? sorry but what else is it if its not a beef farm? was he rearing calves and selling them at a young age? tbh if it wasnt a dairy farm and had beef breed cattle then its a beef farm really unless u want to get really techinal with beef rearing units and so on... im guessing he had a small herd of suckler cows selling for beef.

sorry oaktrees :frown:

but u have bristol to look forward and u did better than me last year with 2 interviews, not bad at all :smile:

Reply 836