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    (Original post by splitstriker)
    The only reason medics get the title doctor is because of their academic training...not because of their medical emergency training.
    That is a highly contentious suggestion. It may be for both reasons, though far less to do with academia, for the reasons mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, medical graduates are never going to be stripped of the title. This is about dentists.
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    (Original post by Jonty99)
    But other professions have to undergo a lot of learning and training, such as Lawyers and Engineers, and they don't get called "Doctor".

    So I'm not sure the title "doctor" is just about a high level of learning. Obviously the PhD Doctor was for that, but I don't think "medical doctor referred to as Dr because he's a medic" is due to a high level of learning.

    (Original post by electricjon)
    That is a highly contentious suggestion. It may be for both reasons, though far less to do with academia, for the reasons mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, medical graduates are never going to be stripped of the title. This is about dentists.
    These are both excellent points...

    As I look at it more and more, dentists seem to slightly fall out of the categories that medics and phd graduates fall into. I think I need to look more into why almost exclusively in the world there is such a huge debate over this matter in the UK.

    Thanks for the debate, it's given me a lot of opinions to think about.
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    The title doctor in that sense implies a doctorate degree, which qualifies the holder to teach in their specific field. As we've established though, undergraduate medical and dental degrees only give you bachelors degrees, sometimes masters, but not doctorate level, regardless of the length of training. Architects study for 7 years to get a BA - by that argument they have just as much right to the title. It's still misleading though. It's less misleading for a dentist or vet to use the term admittedly, given their basis in healthcare, but still misleading to the general public's perception of the title doctor. Even regarding it as a doctorate (which it isn't) - do all dentists hold academic teaching roles at universities? No.



    All healthcare professions practise within their limitations: nurses, paramedics, therapists etc. Is it appropriate for a dentist to respond to an emergency? Well that depends on their individual abilities as well as the nature of the emergency, but is your range of competencies enough to qualify the title doctor?

    No I don't know what's in a dental emergency drug box. It's not in my job role, nor am I claiming to be a dentist (yet). I'm sure I could reasonably guess what would be in one though. Besides, I'm not saying you don't have a unique role and specialist knowledge far and beyond what I know. Are there specific emergencies than only a dentist can handle, which a medically trained doctor could not? And if so, does your unique ability to help in those situations qualify you to the title doctor?

    Either way you look at it (medically or academically), there personally just isn't enough evidence to support the title. I can thoroughly appreciate where you're coming from. But that isn't enough for me.
    Yes we are trained in handling medical emergencies. Fits, asthma attacks, cardiac arrests, angina, anaphylaxis etc. at a level appropriate to a community setting, not a hospital setting. If you don't even know how much training a dentist receives (as you seem to believe it is BLS and nothing more) or even what is in their drug box, how can you make a judgement on their competency?

    And in any case, the title doctor is not exclusively about handling medical emergencies, your opinion is that is what it should be, but it's not!

    I hope you realise when you start dental school just how much clinical medicine and medical emergencies training you get


    (Original post by splitstriker)
    These are both excellent points...

    As I look at it more and more, dentists seem to slightly fall out of the categories that medics and phd graduates fall into. I think I need to look more into why almost exclusively in the world there is such a huge debate over this matter in the UK.

    Thanks for the debate, it's given me a lot of opinions to think about.
    GDC over-regulation. They've nothing better to do with my £600 annual retention fee.

    In every other country in the world dentists are called Dr. Which is going to cause major hassle if UK graduates can't call themselves Dr and EU ones can.

    As I said, I don't use the title, I find it too formal and don't think it fosters a good patient-dentist relationship, but I think the choice should be there.
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    (Original post by Magnanimity)
    Yes we are trained in handling medical emergencies. Fits, asthma attacks, cardiac arrests, angina, anaphylaxis etc. at a level appropriate to a community setting, not a hospital setting. If you don't even know how much training a dentist receives (as you seem to believe it is BLS and nothing more) or even what is in their drug box, how can you make a judgement on their competency?

    And in any case, the title doctor is not exclusively about handling medical emergencies, your opinion is that is what it should be, but it's not!

    I hope you realise when you start dental school just how much clinical medicine and medical emergencies training you get
    Excellent point. I am forgetting that a community setting is completely different and I am in no means well placed to make such judgements about the competency of dentists. And I look forward to dental school and seeing how much emergency training you receive. In fact, I imagine that you do get more exposure than medics. Certainly on my course I didn't do that much, as previously alluded to.

    I still maintain my opinion that the general public's understanding of the title doctor connects it exclusively to medical graduates. Maybe not on the emergency argument. Perhaps it is more that medics study a much broader curriculum of human disease and therefore have more translatable skills and knowledge for the general public to appreciate. Dentists, whilst sharing a lot of the medical curriculum initially, quickly begin to specialise and advance much more rapidly to senior level than their medical counterparts. With that comes greater responsibility and arguably justifies the inflated pay structure. Medics on the other hand graduate with a very basic and broad knowledge base, before spending the next 10-20 years of their career training in their chosen specialty before getting to the same level as dentists in terms of experience, responsibility and pay. But then again, to me, that is what being a doctor is all about - serving, helping and healing people and society, lifelong learning, personal and professional development, and a lot of other values that I'm sure are shared by dentists. All of them? Maybe some have alternative agendas but do they really do what a "doctor" should?

    And I, like most of my medical colleagues, use the title doctor. Sometimes I'll say "I'm Jon, one of the doctors," some people say "I'm Dr so-and-so," but regardless of how - each and every time we do introduce ourselves to a patient, we have to say what our name is and what our job is. We can't just say "Hi I'm Steve" and get on with it - not only would that be unprofessional, we might be confused for a nurse, paramedic, porter, or worst of all... a student. Dentists can get away with it, because you're entirely surrounded by dental equipment and it's sort of implied as soon as the patient walks through the door.

    Ultimately, medical doctors can lose the title by becoming surgeons. Then they go back to being Mr/Mrs/Miss. Some surgeons regard that as a mark of respect and superiority, trumped only by Professor/Sir/Lord. If you call a surgeon Dr it is considered seriously bad form. Yet dentists are surgeons, or at least, their degree does say Bachelor of Dental Surgery, so why are we squabbling about the title doctor when you could call yourself Mr/Mrs/Miss and then claim the moral high ground over doctors?

    Personally I'm going for the title Duke, though Earl will be fine.
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    They're too busy poking utensils in my mouth for me to ask them
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    Excellent point. I am forgetting that a community setting is completely different and I am in no means well placed to make such judgements about the competency of dentists. And I look forward to dental school and seeing how much emergency training you receive. In fact, I imagine that you do get more exposure than medics. Certainly on my course I didn't do that much, as previously alluded to.

    I still maintain my opinion that the general public's understanding of the title doctor connects it exclusively to medical graduates. Maybe not on the emergency argument. Perhaps it is more that medics study a much broader curriculum of human disease and therefore have more translatable skills and knowledge for the general public to appreciate. Dentists, whilst sharing a lot of the medical curriculum initially, quickly begin to specialise and advance much more rapidly to senior level than their medical counterparts. With that comes greater responsibility and arguably justifies the inflated pay structure. Medics on the other hand graduate with a very basic and broad knowledge base, before spending the next 10-20 years of their career training in their chosen specialty before getting to the same level as dentists in terms of experience, responsibility and pay. But then again, to me, that is what being a doctor is all about - serving, helping and healing people and society, lifelong learning, personal and professional development, and a lot of other values that I'm sure are shared by dentists. All of them? Maybe some have alternative agendas but do they really do what a "doctor" should?

    And I, like most of my medical colleagues, use the title doctor. Sometimes I'll say "I'm Jon, one of the doctors," some people say "I'm Dr so-and-so," but regardless of how - each and every time we do introduce ourselves to a patient, we have to say what our name is and what our job is. We can't just say "Hi I'm Steve" and get on with it - not only would that be unprofessional, we might be confused for a nurse, paramedic, porter, or worst of all... a student. Dentists can get away with it, because you're entirely surrounded by dental equipment and it's sort of implied as soon as the patient walks through the door.

    Ultimately, medical doctors can lose the title by becoming surgeons. Then they go back to being Mr/Mrs/Miss. Some surgeons regard that as a mark of respect and superiority, trumped only by Professor/Sir/Lord. If you call a surgeon Dr it is considered seriously bad form. Yet dentists are surgeons, or at least, their degree does say Bachelor of Dental Surgery, so why are we squabbling about the title doctor when you could call yourself Mr/Mrs/Miss and then claim the moral high ground over doctors?

    Personally I'm going for the title Duke, though Earl will be fine.
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    (Original post by Joseppea)
    They're too busy poking utensils in my mouth for me to ask them
    Next time ask before or after he/she has poked utensils in your mouth.
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    (Original post by Malsy)
    i don't understand you; neither sentence; not one bit.
    I think it's because Americans have a running joke that British people have bad teeth, like when the drunken clam gets burnt down in family guy and a British person buys it and he's drawn with bad teeth, and in Austin powers too
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    I just call him Joe.
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    stil dnt get it
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentist
    "A dentist, also known as a 'dental surgeon', is a doctor that specializes in the diagnosis prevention and treatment of diseases and conditions of the oral cavity."
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    Excellent point. I am forgetting that a community setting is completely different and I am in no means well placed to make such judgements about the competency of dentists. And I look forward to dental school and seeing how much emergency training you receive. In fact, I imagine that you do get more exposure than medics. Certainly on my course I didn't do that much, as previously alluded to.

    I still maintain my opinion that the general public's understanding of the title doctor connects it exclusively to medical graduates. Maybe not on the emergency argument. Perhaps it is more that medics study a much broader curriculum of human disease and therefore have more translatable skills and knowledge for the general public to appreciate. Dentists, whilst sharing a lot of the medical curriculum initially, quickly begin to specialise and advance much more rapidly to senior level than their medical counterparts. With that comes greater responsibility and arguably justifies the inflated pay structure. Medics on the other hand graduate with a very basic and broad knowledge base, before spending the next 10-20 years of their career training in their chosen specialty before getting to the same level as dentists in terms of experience, responsibility and pay. But then again, to me, that is what being a doctor is all about - serving, helping and healing people and society, lifelong learning, personal and professional development, and a lot of other values that I'm sure are shared by dentists. All of them? Maybe some have alternative agendas but do they really do what a "doctor" should?

    And I, like most of my medical colleagues, use the title doctor. Sometimes I'll say "I'm Jon, one of the doctors," some people say "I'm Dr so-and-so," but regardless of how - each and every time we do introduce ourselves to a patient, we have to say what our name is and what our job is. We can't just say "Hi I'm Steve" and get on with it - not only would that be unprofessional, we might be confused for a nurse, paramedic, porter, or worst of all... a student. Dentists can get away with it, because you're entirely surrounded by dental equipment and it's sort of implied as soon as the patient walks through the door.

    Ultimately, medical doctors can lose the title by becoming surgeons. Then they go back to being Mr/Mrs/Miss. Some surgeons regard that as a mark of respect and superiority, trumped only by Professor/Sir/Lord. If you call a surgeon Dr it is considered seriously bad form. Yet dentists are surgeons, or at least, their degree does say Bachelor of Dental Surgery, so why are we squabbling about the title doctor when you could call yourself Mr/Mrs/Miss and then claim the moral high ground over doctors?

    Personally I'm going for the title Duke, though Earl will be fine.
    Great post. Could not agree more with everything

    I hope you enjoy dental school. I'm hoping, if I can afford it financially, to go back to med school and go on to specialise in oral med (although I have heard they are removing the need for the med degree soon) However I think I'll hang out in general practice for a while to get some money together.

    I really admire you for shooting for maxfax. If you need any help with dentistry related stuff at any point, give me a shout
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    AFAIK in the medical arena the title Mr holds higher esteem than Dr and as surgeons dentists are entitled to call themselves Mr, as would a hospital consultant.

    As it stands dentists also have the right to call themselves Dr. Whether this is appropriate or not is another question. Also whether it will remain this way is not certain.
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    I don't know what I call mine.. I had a replacement consultant at the orthodontics and she thought I called her a nurse and had a bit of a hissy fit and went on one a bit saying she's a doctor not a nurse.. (I didn't call her a nurse in the first place :sigh:)
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    (Original post by mel0n)
    I don't know what I call mine.. I had a replacement consultant at the orthodontics and she thought I called her a nurse and had a bit of a hissy fit and went on one a bit saying she's a doctor not a nurse.. (I didn't call her a nurse in the first place :sigh:)
    Medics tend to think like that, they have a superiority complex, however need to get off their high horse. I don't think dentists mind whether you call them Dr, Mr/Mrs/Ms or by their first name, they are pretty chilled out and can down/up to the patients level.
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    (Original post by grad-bds)
    Medics tend to think like that, they have a superiority complex, however need to get off their high horse. I don't think dentists mind whether you call them Dr, Mr/Mrs/Ms or by their first name, they are pretty chilled out and can down/up to the patients level.
    I don't think doctors have a superiority complex :P

    They seem to be the one of the only consistently nice type of person out there.
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    I think they do have the right to the title Dr, but I just call my dentist by his first name
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    'Oi. You.'

    That's how I get his attention
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    Medical doctors study for 5 years and get called doctors why shouldn't dentist the first 2 years is the same as medicine....I think.
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    Maybe it's like surgeons? Where they get to a certain point and become Mr/Mrs/Miss etc. again? *shrugs*
 
 
 
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