Maths in University without Further Maths Watch

bband
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Hi,
How many people get into top universities without studying Further Maths during A levels for a course like "Maths and Economics"?
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gianthead
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I know further maths isn't always considered essential even by the best maths courses.If you're taking it they may lower the grades for your other subjects but if you aren't you could still get into cambridge or bristol, that's for just maths, I don't know about maths with economics, but I'd imagine they'd be easier rather than harder to get into.
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nepali_babu
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well some people say its really important but i dont think it is. it does help with your application cos havin f maths basically means your transcition to the uni level maths will be easier. but its not a necessity. well i got a place at UCL without it. then again they did ask for AAA..not sure if they do it to everyone or just people without Fmaths. but either way..u can stil get in so dont worri
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Wrangler
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I think the key is - if your school offers it, why would you not take it? A top University would be concerned if you didn't do Further Maths, even though your school offers it - afterall, you're applying to study Maths for 3-4yrs!

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apd35
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(Original post by Wrangler)
I think the key is - if your school offers it, why would you not take it? A top University would be concerned if you didn't do Further Maths, even though your school offers it - afterall, you're applying to study Maths for 3-4yrs!
:ditto:

I was just about to type exactly the same thing, then noticed it had already been said, also,if your school doesn't over further Maths, no university in the country is going to not accept you because of it.
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gianthead
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(Original post by Wrangler)
I think the key is - if your school offers it, why would you not take it? A top University would be concerned if you didn't do Further Maths, even though your school offers it - afterall, you're applying to study Maths for 3-4yrs!
you might only decide to do uni maths while you're studying your A-levels! not everyone feels destined to do their chosen uni subject from the moment of GCSE!
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KayBee
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I considered doing FMaths but at the time was planning I was on course to do Medicine so I didn't. Now I'm at Newcastle doing Maths and kinda wished I'd done it (It would have beaten Biology anyday) but I don't feel disadvantaged because I didn't do it.
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apd35
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If you have a good reason why you didn't do further Maths when offered, e.g. planning to do medicine, it may not go against you so much, but the question will definitely go through a admissions tutors mind, why didn't they do further Maths? At non-interviewing Universities, they may just assume your school didn't offer it, but at interviewing unis (e.g. Oxbridge), you may get asked that question.
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tinaphilip
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well I don't think further maths is an issue at all. I don't do further maths at college. I think after your grades its all down to your personal statement. They're not going to take some1 just coz they do further maths, its definitely an advantage but I think there are other factors that are more important.
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angster
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Hi,

I'm studying mathematics at university with an A-level backgroud of mathematics, economics and german. Although I got 3 As, it goes without saying that the more exposure to the advanced mathematical concepts you have before you enter university to study maths, the easier the transition will be. I notice that Warwick and Imperial among others ask students without further maths to look at and perhaps do(?) Advanced Extension or STEP papers as preparation for university mathematics. Saying that, university mathematics is conceptually different due to the fact that the courses have a strong emphasis on proofs which certainly get overlooked to a great extent in normal a-level mathematics but you get a bit more experience at dealing with proofs in further maths.
University mathematics without a further maths background will mean that the course will seem incredibly daunting at first. We spend the first semester going through most of the further maths stuff anyway but obviously you're asked to absorb the further maths syllabus at uni in a shorter time span relative to A-Level. It's not really the complexity of the work in the first semester that is difficult, more the amount of new things you need to familiarise yourself with. If you come to university without further maths but with good a-level grades, don't expect an easy ride. I think universities ask for higher grades in non-further maths applicants because they want people with a proven record of diligence and hard work in their school studies who will be able to handle and ultimately take in the barrage of new and unfamiliar theorems and conjectures relatively quickly. The first semester is very testing, as it was for me but eventually if you work assiduously and enjoy what you study, you should get to grips with the course eventually and then make inroads and excel in the actual post-further maths (university maths) stuff. Make sure to read through some of the further maths material in the holidays prior to the start of university if you're serious about wanting to study it. It does get quite fun and interesting after a while once you understand what you're doing.

Angad
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tinaphilip
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hey thanks that was helpful. kings is my 2nd choice by the way. so myt see u there this yr! lol well on that note, is the course at say imperial different from that at kings? Heard somehwere that the maths course at imperial is more challenging compared to other uni's. obviously excluding oxford and cam...
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AlphaNumeric
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(Original post by gianthead)
you might only decide to do uni maths while you're studying your A-levels! not everyone feels destined to do their chosen uni subject from the moment of GCSE!
Then why not take it up in your second year of 6th form?

For lower end Unis it wouldn't be so important - but at the top end, I think they'd be a little concerned.

EDIT - this is Wrangler btw, just posting from AlphaNumeric's computer!
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Wrangler
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Oops, on my account now...

Also, if your school offers Further Maths, and you're taking Maths - it's more a case of deciding not to take Further Maths, than deciding to take it.
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bband
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I contacted Imperial University about this issue and they said:

"we do make offers to students that are not taking Further Mathematics if they make it clear in their personal statement that their school did not offer it. Try to study some of the Further Mathematics material in your own time if you can. About 80% of our current first year have Further Mathematics, so those with single maths do find the first term a struggle!"

I was offered Further Maths by my school but only if I study it without any classes in my freetime (with some after school help). Would it be truthfull of me to say in my Personal Statement that "My School Didn't offer Further Maths".

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silent ninja
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So your school offers further maths but there are no classes? lol
You wouldnt be lying if you said they didn't offer it. Well, not imo.
Why dont you just do an AS in F.Maths in your own time? That shouldnt be too taxing.
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bband
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I have asked my Maths teacher today if I can start Further Maths now as private study. She said she will think about it.
Is there a way I can do it as private study is she says NO.
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AlphaNumeric
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Either pay a tutor or be prepared to work alone and pay to be put in for the exams in your school (or in another school perhaps?)
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RichE
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(Original post by bassamband)
I have asked my Maths teacher today if I can start Further Maths now as private study. She said she will think about it.
Is there a way I can do it as private study is she says NO.
Thanks
Whereabouts in the country are you? The MEI Further Maths Network might be able to help you if it's set up in that area.
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ssmoose
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Then why not take it up in your second year of 6th form?
A lot of schools wont let you do this, because the original further maths people will be so far ahead and it would be too difficult for a maths applicant (even the ones to top end unis for maths, warwick, notts, london, etc) to catch up and get the grades they wish. I would only consider trying to catch up the further maths if you have your heart said on oxbridge.
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Wrangler
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(Original post by ssmoose)
A lot of schools wont let you do this, because the original further maths people will be so far ahead and it would be too difficult for a maths applicant (even the ones to top end unis for maths, warwick, notts, london, etc) to catch up and get the grades they wish. I would only consider trying to catch up the further maths if you have your heart said on oxbridge.
To actually learn the material, it only takes a month or two - it's just finding the time to sit down and practice some of the techniques, I would have thought.

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