D&amp;D Theology&#x27;s &quot;Ask About Islam&quot; Thread Mk. IV

1.)

Can Muslims accuse other Muslims of not being Muslims?

I often hear "person x is not a muslim because they have done deed y".

Is this actually legitimate? Can a Muslim do this?

2.)

Am I correct in thinking that if a homosexual act is witnessed by a certain number of people, then it is punishable? If so what is the punishment?

3.)

Can homosexual intercourse happen in total privacy, and it is not punished by humans?

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 202

abdul-aleem

Original post by ideas4life

If Muhammd is a prophet of peace, why did he say he is a prophet of war?

This is mentioned in Sahifah ibn Munabbih (earliest authentic hadith book)

Because he introduced the convention of war, much like the Geneva convention in place today, he caused a change in warfare for the better.

Reply 203

amerzeb

8

i am a muslim and i got a question, it says in the quran that 'And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive guidance'. 21:30
those this mean about earthquakes or not, please clarify

Reply 204

What do people mean by the "Sunni" and "Shia" science of the hadith?

Reply 205

Original post by amerzeb

i am a muslim and i got a question, it says in the quran that 'And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive guidance'. 21:30
those this mean about earthquakes or not, please clarify

I believe it is claiming Allah placed mountains on the earth to act almost like pegs - so that the earth would not shake. This is not remotely scientifically true.

If I am incorrect, and that is not what it is saying, then I apologise in advance.

Reply 206

Original post by shady_123

People did start worshiping historical sites in Sh Muhammed bin Abdull wahabs time and before this. It's all been documented. The prophet warned against building over graves because the Jews and Christians took these graves as places of worship and this is the exact same thing that happens all over the world today.

Even Umar(Ra) saw this as an issue when he cut down the tree where people gave bay'ah to the prophet(saws) because he found people looking for it in order to pray next to it.

Concerning the green dome over the prophets grave :

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/110061

where do you draw the line from worshipping and simply showing some love/respect? Either in2deep or Guvnor posted a vid showing people carrying the Prophet (saw) bowl and showing how emotional they felt knowing they are carrying THE PROPHET saw bowl. Obviously they weren't worshipping it, doesn't that apply to other historical things. I'm not gna question Umar ra action a he knew better than me, but then again he didn't get rid of everything belonging to the Prophet either. Anyway, I know we won't agree on this issue and I'm not learned enough to put my stance across properly so I'd rather leave this.

Reply 207

mel0n

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/110061

Original post by SaintSoldier

Does that mean that thhe Prophet's Mosque has to be demolished as well then?

Shady_123 posted this regarding it :colondollar:

Reply 208

mel0n

Original post by Tpos

where do you draw the line from worshipping and simply showing some love/respect? Either in2deep or Guvnor posted a vid showing people carrying the Prophet (saw) bowl and showing how emotional they felt knowing they are carrying THE PROPHET saw bowl. Obviously they weren't worshipping it, doesn't that apply to other historical things. I'm not gna question Umar ra action a he knew better than me, but then again he didn't get rid of everything belonging to the Prophet either. Anyway, I know we won't agree on this issue and I'm not learned enough to put my stance across properly so I'd rather leave this.

Surely more love and respect would be shown by adhering to the sunnah and acknowledging that the prophet (pbuh) commanded that graves should be leveled, rather than doing what we think shows most love?

Reply 209

Original post by mel0n

Surely more love and respect would be shown by adhering to the sunnah and acknowledging that the prophet (pbuh) commanded that graves should be leveled, rather than doing what we think shows most love?

I was talking about historical sites not graves.

Reply 210

shady_123

Original post by Tpos

where do you draw the line from worshipping and simply showing some love/respect? Either in2deep or Guvnor posted a vid showing people carrying the Prophet (saw) bowl and showing how emotional they felt knowing they are carrying THE PROPHET saw bowl. Obviously they weren't worshipping it, doesn't that apply to other historical things. I'm not gna question Umar ra action a he knew better than me, but then again he didn't get rid of everything belonging to the Prophet either. Anyway, I know we won't agree on this issue and I'm not learned enough to put my stance across properly so I'd rather leave this.

The Items of the prophet(saws) are an exception. Seeking blessings from his items are allowed in the shariah.

If you look at the story of the people of Nuh(as) and how they built status of the five pious people in order to remember/respect them. What did shaitan do? He made them start worshiping them and they fell into shirk and hence were destroyed. I do understand your point, but I do feel removing them altogether is a much safer option for the Muslims.

People do actually go and seek blessings from these historical sites and at peoples graves. In fact, people actually tried to seek blessings from the left over water from the ghusal of Ibn Taymiyyah when he died in order to get blessings. Something he would have never allowed if he was alive.

I've heard tonnes of stories about the cloth of the kabah and the dust from such and such place..It all just leads to shirk and should be avoided.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 211

Fair enough. I just think stupid people will always exist so why ruin things for everyone because of them. I'm sure they'll find something to commit shirk with :rolleyes:

Reply 212

Original post by Organ

1.)

Can Muslims accuse other Muslims of not being Muslims?

I often hear "person x is not a muslim because they have done deed y".

Is this actually legitimate? Can a Muslim do this?

It is very dangerous for a Muslim to call another Muslim a Kaafir (Non-Muslim).
[INDENT] Abu Dharr (May Allah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) saying, "If somebody accuses another of disbelief or calls him the enemy of Allah, such an accusation will revert to him (the accuser) if the accused is innocent.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

Ibn `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) said: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "When a person calls his brother (in Islam) a disbeliever, one of them will certainly deserve the title. If the addressee is so as he has asserted, the disbelief of the man is confirmed, but if it is untrue, then it will revert to him.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
[/INDENT] In other words, if I was to find 99 reasons to call someone a Kaafir and just 1 reason to call him a Muslim, then I would opt to call him a Muslim.

Original post by Organ

2.)

Am I correct in thinking that if a homosexual act is witnessed by a certain number of people, then it is punishable? If so what is the punishment?

These are the conditions;

a) The sexual act is seen committed in public, where 4 or more witnesses (not just any, but 4 people who are pious and upright) see it.

b) They confess it themselves. (Conditionally; They must not be insane, drunk or under force).

Upon any of the two options being 100% fulfilled, only the Leader of the State could ascribe the punishment, which would usually be execution.

Original post by Organ

3.)

Can homosexual intercourse happen in total privacy, and it is not punished by humans?

Yup. Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home/place is your own business. You should repent to God if you commit a sin like homosexuality.

The only time it's a problem is if the act is done in public, where others have seen it and can be influenced by it. In this case, if 4 witnesses come forward, then the state would have to bring moral order back to the public and prescribe the punishment.

If 4 people saw you commit a homosexual act, inside the privacy of your house, then those 4 witnesses would not count as they have just spied, which is forbidden. You actually have the right to poke their eye out if they're spying on you through a hole.

[INDENT]Once Caliph Umar (RTA) came to know that a man was drinking alcohol in his home. He broke through in his home by wall and caught him red handed with alcohol. Then the case is presented in court. That person said I did the crime of drinking alcohol but Umar (RTA) did 3 crimes, first spying, second jumping into my home from wall (not from door) and last without permission. The judge dismiss the case and Caliph Umar (RTA) apologized for that.)[/INDENT]

So you can see how Islam's stance on the matter. It's actually extremely hard to be punished for homosexuality etc. Never has the 4 witnesses in history ever been achieved, who would commit a sexual act in Public (not even secular societies allow this) and I'm unsure why someone would confess. I read (though this is not confirmed or anything) somewhere, that the first 1000 years of Islam, about 3 people got executed, all were self-confessions.

Islam only wants to protect society from evil and wrong actions. And it will constantly discourage thinks like alcohol/homosexuality etc. At the same time though, it respects what someone does in their own privacy, and thus expects the person to repent from the wrong action and to hide their sins.

Hope that answers it.

Someone can correct me if I've said something wrong.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 213

maljebo

8

Original post by Organ

What do people mean by the "Sunni" and "Shia" science of the hadith?

Shia and Sunni's have different views on what constitutes a hadith, and Shia have more stringent rules on what constitutes a reliable hadith, as well as having more reliable hadith.

What is hadith - http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/

Short view on the differences between Shia and Sunni hadiths
http://www.al-islam.org/short/alhadith/

Reply 214

Original post by Perseveranze

It is very dangerous for a Muslim to call another Muslim a Kaafir (Non-Muslim).
[INDENT] Abu Dharr (May Allah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) saying, "If somebody accuses another of disbelief or calls him the enemy of Allah, such an accusation will revert to him (the accuser) if the accused is innocent.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

Ibn `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) said: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "When a person calls his brother (in Islam) a disbeliever, one of them will certainly deserve the title. If the addressee is so as he has asserted, the disbelief of the man is confirmed, but if it is untrue, then it will revert to him.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
[/INDENT] In other words, if I was to find 99 reasons to call someone a Kaafir and just 1 reason to call him a Muslim, then I would opt to call him a Muslim.

Thank-you for your response.

So when people on TV say for example (I have seen Baroness Warsi say this) "so and so isn't a muslim" they as muslims are themselves committing a sin and have no right to do it? This is called "takfir" I believe - can only a religious court actually pronounce somebody a non-muslim, and how would they be able to do it? Would simply having pronounced the Shahada be sufficient enough for this accusation to be invalid? Is it a major sin to accuse another muslim of not being a muslim?

These are the conditions;

a) The sexual act is seen committed in public, where 4 or more witnesses (not just any, but 4 people who are pious and upright) see it.

b) They confess it themselves. (Conditionally; They must not be insane, drunk or under force).

Upon any of the two options being 100% fulfilled, only the Leader of the State could ascribe the punishment, which would usually be execution.

By leader of the state, do you mean leader of the country then?

So this cannot be decided by a religious court, but instead by a national leader?

Yup. Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home/place is your own business. You should repent to God if you commit a sin like homosexuality.

The only time it's a problem is if the act is done in public, where others have seen it and can be influenced by it. In this case, if 4 witnesses come forward, then the state would have to bring moral order back to the public and prescribe the punishment.

If 4 people saw you commit a homosexual act, inside the privacy of your house, then those 4 witnesses would not count as they have just spied, which is forbidden. You actually have the right to poke their eye out if they're spying on you through a hole.

[INDENT]Once Caliph Umar (RTA) came to know that a man was drinking alcohol in his home. He broke through in his home by wall and caught him red handed with alcohol. Then the case is presented in court. That person said I did the crime of drinking alcohol but Umar (RTA) did 3 crimes, first spying, second jumping into my home from wall (not from door) and last without permission. The judge dismiss the case and Caliph Umar (RTA) apologized for that.)[/INDENT]

So you can see how Islam's stance on the matter. It's actually extremely hard to be punished for homosexuality etc. Never has the 4 witnesses in history ever been achieved, who would commit a sexual act in Public (not even secular societies allow this) and I'm unsure why someone would confess. I read (though this is not confirmed or anything) somewhere, that the first 1000 years of Islam, about 3 people got executed, all were self-confessions.

So states that kill homosexuals today, are not correctly following Islamic law?

Original post by maljebo

Shia and Sunni's have different views on what constitutes a hadith, and Shia have more stringent rules on what constitutes a reliable hadith, as well as having more reliable hadith.

What is hadith - http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/

Short view on the differences between Shia and Sunni hadiths
http://www.al-islam.org/short/alhadith/

Thankyou I'll read them at a later date.

I am quite pleased to recognise Sistani in your avatar, although that is from following events in Iraq and not through religious studies :biggrin:

Reply 215

Original post by Organ

Thank-you for your response.

So when people on TV say for example (I have seen Baroness Warsi say this) "so and so isn't a muslim" they as muslims are themselves committing a sin and have no right to do it? This is called "takfir" I believe - can only a religious court actually pronounce somebody a non-muslim, and how would they be able to do it? Would simply having pronounced the Shahada be sufficient enough for this accusation to be invalid? Is it a major sin to accuse another muslim of not being a muslim?

It's not about someone declaring someone a Kaafir. If someone does something that clearly takes them out of the fold of Islam, for example; they openly insult the Prophet(pbuh) or commit blaitant shirk on purpose (worshipping something besides Allah), and you have no doubts about it, then you could call them a kaafir.

However, it's one of those things you are still highly discouraged to do, because you just never know, they might have made a mistake and you misunderstood.

So it's best to not go around calling people kaafirs.

Original post by Organ

By leader of the state, do you mean leader of the country then?

So this cannot be decided by a religious court, but instead by a national leader?

The Shariah judge would announce the punishment, however only the Caliphate/Leader of the state can make the final approval. It cannot go ahead without the Leader's permission.

If there's a tiny bit of doubt, then you can't give the hudd (execution) punishment.

[INDENT]An agreed-upon rule of Islamic jurisprudence is “Let doubt suspend hudud.”[/INDENT]

Original post by Organ

So states that kill homosexuals today, are not correctly following Islamic law?

From my understanding they're not doing it right, due to the using technology and circumstancial evidences.

I have to ask a learned scholar on this, so I'll get back to you.

Reply 216

Original post by Perseveranze

I have to ask a learned scholar on this, so I'll get back to you.

which scholars do you ask?

Reply 217

Original post by Tpos

which scholars do you ask?

Asalaamu Alaikum,

There's alot of places to ask;

http://www.sunnipath.com
http://askthescholar.com
http://www.islamqa.com/en/

I prefer to ask on here though -

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/

^Alot of knowledgeable people there, from what i've seen, the best English forums for Islamic knowledge.

For a question as simple as the one I want to know more info about, I am going to ask there ^.

Reply 218

Original post by Perseveranze

Asalaamu Alaikum,

wa alaykum salaam

There's alot of places to ask;

http://www.sunnipath.com
http://askthescholar.com
http://www.islamqa.com/en/

I prefer to ask on here though -

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/

^Alot of knowledgeable people there, from what i've seen, the best English forums for Islamic knowledge.

For a question as simple as the one I want to know more info about, I am going to ask there ^.

I know there are a lot of places, just wondering who you take from and whether you meant someone you would talk to someone in real life or not.

:smile:

Reply 219