Learning Spanish language: The Spanish Learners' Society!
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Lol haha no there isnt
Original post by AquisM
There isn't much activity in this thread, is there?
Vamos!
How is everyone's Spanish going?
Original post by AquisM
There isn't much activity in this thread, is there?
Original post by LeonVII
Lol haha no there isnt
Original post by Devina-S
Vamos!
How is everyone's Spanish going?
How is everyone's Spanish going?
Then let's make some. I've recently discovered tunein.com and it basically let's you listen to radio stations from around the world. I don't usually listen to English radio because it's either the charts or chatting about some recent event that i don't care about. However, I decided to listen to some and some of the national radio stations are really interesting and have some interesting debates, it's really helped me with my aural spanish thus far.
Original post by PrinceyJ
Then let's make some. I've recently discovered tunein.com and it basically let's you listen to radio stations from around the world. I don't usually listen to English radio because it's either the charts or chatting about some recent event that i don't care about. However, I decided to listen to some and some of the national radio stations are really interesting and have some interesting debates, it's really helped me with my aural spanish thus far.
Ah really?! I'm pretty sure I have the app for that on my phone...never used it though. Although I listen to Los principales 50 or Europa FM sometimes...mainly Spanish music however. What stations do you listen to for Spanish debates? I can never find any!
By the way, an amazing site is http://www.notesinspanish.com/
These guys (Marina and Ben) have really helped me with my understanding. Their podcasts are amazing! Take a listen!
I've recently started taking a Spanish evening class, am really enjoying it so far. Anybody got any tips for someone new to the language? Are there any good textbooks/guides I should take a look at?
¡Hola a todos!
Estudio "A2" pero el jueves estoy haciendo mi examen de "AS" otra vez. Recibí un "B" en el examen escrito y opino que fue el ensayo que ha causado esta nota en lugar de un "A". Estoy muy preocupado que voy a estropear el examen...
Estoy estudiando "La Casa de Bernarda Alba" y "Guernica, de Picasso" y encuentro estos temas más interestantes que los que estudio en francés... El ano próximo he elegido a estudiar francés, espanol y ruso a Nottingham o Southampton... pero espero que Durham me dé una oferta también...
Si hay alguien que está retomando sus examenes espanoles este mes, como yo, ¡suerte!
...Y de vuelta a la revisión voy!!!
Estudio "A2" pero el jueves estoy haciendo mi examen de "AS" otra vez. Recibí un "B" en el examen escrito y opino que fue el ensayo que ha causado esta nota en lugar de un "A". Estoy muy preocupado que voy a estropear el examen...
Estoy estudiando "La Casa de Bernarda Alba" y "Guernica, de Picasso" y encuentro estos temas más interestantes que los que estudio en francés... El ano próximo he elegido a estudiar francés, espanol y ruso a Nottingham o Southampton... pero espero que Durham me dé una oferta también...
Si hay alguien que está retomando sus examenes espanoles este mes, como yo, ¡suerte!
...Y de vuelta a la revisión voy!!!
I'm just doing some exercises and I came across this :
A mi abuelo le va mal con su teléfono móvil .
Why is the le even there? I find direct and indirect object pronouns so confusing. I mean, what purpose does it even have in this sentence? I can understand it perfectly well without it!
A mi abuelo le va mal con su teléfono móvil .
Why is the le even there? I find direct and indirect object pronouns so confusing. I mean, what purpose does it even have in this sentence? I can understand it perfectly well without it!
Original post by 21stcenturyphantom
I'm just doing some exercises and I came across this : A mi abuelo le va mal con su teléfono móvil . Why is the le even there? I find direct and indirect object pronouns so confusing. I mean, what purpose does it even have in this sentence? I can understand it perfectly well without it!
You are right, is confusing, and everyone will understand you without the "le", but the languages have this things...
Don't try to understand "le" as a complement, "le" is part of the verb, in this meaning, "ir" is a "pronominal verb"...
Pronominal verbs are verbs that must be used with a pronoun in order to indicate that the subject is performing the action of the verb upon itself. In other verbs you can see better the difference.
Yo me lavo (you do the cleaning to yourself), yo lavo la ropa (you wash another thing)
"ir" can be pronominal or not depending on the meaning... for example:
to me goes well -> "A mi me va bien" (pronominal, always with preposition)
I go to London -> "Yo voy a Londres" or "Yo me voy a Londres"
Original post by 21stcenturyphantom
I'm just doing some exercises and I came across this :
A mi abuelo le va mal con su teléfono móvil .
Why is the le even there? I find direct and indirect object pronouns so confusing. I mean, what purpose does it even have in this sentence? I can understand it perfectly well without it!
A mi abuelo le va mal con su teléfono móvil .
Why is the le even there? I find direct and indirect object pronouns so confusing. I mean, what purpose does it even have in this sentence? I can understand it perfectly well without it!
Original post by chordi
You are right, is confusing, and everyone will understand you without the "le", but the languages have this things...
Don't try to understand "le" as a complement, "le" is part of the verb, in this meaning, "ir" is a "pronominal verb"...
Pronominal verbs are verbs that must be used with a pronoun in order to indicate that the subject is performing the action of the verb upon itself. In other verbs you can see better the difference.
Yo me lavo (you do the cleaning to yourself), yo lavo la ropa (you wash another thing)
"ir" can be pronominal or not depending on the meaning... for example:
to me goes well -> "A mi me va bien" (pronominal, always with preposition)
I go to London -> "Yo voy a Londres" or "Yo me voy a Londres"
Don't try to understand "le" as a complement, "le" is part of the verb, in this meaning, "ir" is a "pronominal verb"...
Pronominal verbs are verbs that must be used with a pronoun in order to indicate that the subject is performing the action of the verb upon itself. In other verbs you can see better the difference.
Yo me lavo (you do the cleaning to yourself), yo lavo la ropa (you wash another thing)
"ir" can be pronominal or not depending on the meaning... for example:
to me goes well -> "A mi me va bien" (pronominal, always with preposition)
I go to London -> "Yo voy a Londres" or "Yo me voy a Londres"
While I agree that this is confusing (it's hard to explain even for me as a native speaker), I don't think everyone will understand you if you omit the pronoun in this case. Even if I'd understand, I would certainly feel that something is missing in the sentence.
I see it as a pronoun rather than as a part of the verb. For example, if you are referring to several people (plural) you use les: "A mis abuelos les va mal con su móvil". If you're referring to one single person, you use le, as in the example given above: "A mi abuelo le va mal con su móvil". So, it's linked to the subject, not the verb. But, even if you already named the subject (your grandparent(s), in these cases), you have to refer to them again with the pronoun, whenever you use the preposition a (to). Even if it seems redundant (it's not redundant for a native speaker).
It sort of complements the direction established by the preposition a (to), and also expresses an undefined or undetermined action that falls upon the subject. (In this sense it serves the verb, but it's not part of it).
Not sure if this clears a little bit the problem or causes more confusion, but hope it has helped.
Clearly We don't share the view
For me "A mi abuelo va mal con su teléfono móvil" sounds bad, is wrong, but I can't think another meaning, and because of that I think if not everyone, almost everyone understand the right meaning.
I'd never said that "le" wasn't a pronoun, and yes is attached to the complement, "a mi abuelo" isn't a subject, you don't say "A mis abuelos les van mal con su móvil". "irle" is a especial contruction...
and why I think, in my opinion, can be more helpful to understand as a part of the verb...
first, I don't invent anything new, you can find many grammars where the pronoun in a pronominal verb is reffered as a part of the verb.(a example easy to find, the definition in wikilengua)
In the RAE (The Royal Spanish Academy,the official institution responsible for regulating the Spanish language ) you can find the following definition:
"pronombres personales átonos. 1. Formas. Los pronombres personales átonos son aquellos que funcionan como complemento verbal no preposicional (Ya te lo he dicho) o como formante de los verbos pronominales (Ahora me arrepiento). Precisamente por su carácter átono, se pronuncian necesariamente ligados al verbo, con el que forman una unidad acentual. Estos pronombres carentes de independencia fónica se denominan, en general, «clíticos» (?? acento, 1.1b): cuando anteceden al verbo (me encanta; lo dijo; se fue) se llaman «proclíticos»; cuando siguen al verbo (ayúdame, díselo, vete) se llaman «enclíticos»."
but, despite academics discussions far beyound the needs of a begginner, intermediate and even advanced learner, and more for philologists or linguists...
for me, is easier to understand thinking of a unit, thinking "le" isn't a indirect or direct complement, and because of that you need the rest of complements in the sentence...
...and learning as a unit with a specific meaning.
for example, I find easier learning phrasal verbs as differents verbs, better memorize "despegar"-> "take off", "llevarse" -> "take away", than "take is "tomar", adding off is "despegar", adding back...".
but each person has their method, and for you is easier see it in another way...
and maybe 21stcenturyphantom understands you explanation better than mine...
is funny arguing sometimes...
Saludos
and as a curiosity, french have the same pronominal verbs...
For me "A mi abuelo va mal con su teléfono móvil" sounds bad, is wrong, but I can't think another meaning, and because of that I think if not everyone, almost everyone understand the right meaning.
I'd never said that "le" wasn't a pronoun, and yes is attached to the complement, "a mi abuelo" isn't a subject, you don't say "A mis abuelos les van mal con su móvil". "irle" is a especial contruction...
and why I think, in my opinion, can be more helpful to understand as a part of the verb...
first, I don't invent anything new, you can find many grammars where the pronoun in a pronominal verb is reffered as a part of the verb.(a example easy to find, the definition in wikilengua)
In the RAE (The Royal Spanish Academy,the official institution responsible for regulating the Spanish language ) you can find the following definition:
"pronombres personales átonos. 1. Formas. Los pronombres personales átonos son aquellos que funcionan como complemento verbal no preposicional (Ya te lo he dicho) o como formante de los verbos pronominales (Ahora me arrepiento). Precisamente por su carácter átono, se pronuncian necesariamente ligados al verbo, con el que forman una unidad acentual. Estos pronombres carentes de independencia fónica se denominan, en general, «clíticos» (?? acento, 1.1b): cuando anteceden al verbo (me encanta; lo dijo; se fue) se llaman «proclíticos»; cuando siguen al verbo (ayúdame, díselo, vete) se llaman «enclíticos»."
but, despite academics discussions far beyound the needs of a begginner, intermediate and even advanced learner, and more for philologists or linguists...
for me, is easier to understand thinking of a unit, thinking "le" isn't a indirect or direct complement, and because of that you need the rest of complements in the sentence...
...and learning as a unit with a specific meaning.
for example, I find easier learning phrasal verbs as differents verbs, better memorize "despegar"-> "take off", "llevarse" -> "take away", than "take is "tomar", adding off is "despegar", adding back...".
but each person has their method, and for you is easier see it in another way...
and maybe 21stcenturyphantom understands you explanation better than mine...
is funny arguing sometimes...
Saludos
and as a curiosity, french have the same pronominal verbs...
Thinking about it, yes, you're probably right in that is linked to the verb (if the RAE says so, then it probably is). Had not thought about it as a phrasal verb, but makes sense, since "ir" doesn't have the same meaning when you say "A mi abuelo le va mal con su móvil" than when you say "María va a la playa". So, yes, maybe it's more accurate to see as a part of the verb.
BTW, no need to regret anything. I was not arguing for the sake of argument; just giving my point of view
.
Cheers.
BTW, no need to regret anything. I was not arguing for the sake of argument; just giving my point of view
.Cheers.
Original post by EAM1995
¡Hola a todos!
Estudio "A2" pero el jueves estoy haciendo mi examen de "AS" otra vez. Recibí un "B" en el examen escrito y opino que fue el ensayo que ha causado esta nota en lugar de un "A". Estoy muy preocupado que voy a estropear el examen...
Estoy estudiando "La Casa de Bernarda Alba" y "Guernica, de Picasso" y encuentro estos temas más interestantes que los que estudio en francés... El ano próximo he elegido a estudiar francés, espanol y ruso a Nottingham o Southampton... pero espero que Durham me dé una oferta también...
Si hay alguien que está retomando sus examenes espanoles este mes, como yo, ¡suerte!
...Y de vuelta a la revisión voy!!!
Estudio "A2" pero el jueves estoy haciendo mi examen de "AS" otra vez. Recibí un "B" en el examen escrito y opino que fue el ensayo que ha causado esta nota en lugar de un "A". Estoy muy preocupado que voy a estropear el examen...
Estoy estudiando "La Casa de Bernarda Alba" y "Guernica, de Picasso" y encuentro estos temas más interestantes que los que estudio en francés... El ano próximo he elegido a estudiar francés, espanol y ruso a Nottingham o Southampton... pero espero que Durham me dé una oferta también...
Si hay alguien que está retomando sus examenes espanoles este mes, como yo, ¡suerte!
...Y de vuelta a la revisión voy!!!
Hola!!
¿Como fue el examen?
Yo también estudio 'A2' con AQA... ¿eres con AQA?
Mi español es tan mal jajaja...
Original post by lazaro7
While I agree that this is confusing (it's hard to explain even for me as a native speaker), I don't think everyone will understand you if you omit the pronoun in this case. Even if I'd understand, I would certainly feel that something is missing in the sentence.
I see it as a pronoun rather than as a part of the verb. For example, if you are referring to several people (plural) you use les: "A mis abuelos les va mal con su móvil". If you're referring to one single person, you use le, as in the example given above: "A mi abuelo le va mal con su móvil". So, it's linked to the subject, not the verb. But, even if you already named the subject (your grandparent(s), in these cases), you have to refer to them again with the pronoun, whenever you use the preposition a (to). Even if it seems redundant (it's not redundant for a native speaker).
It sort of complements the direction established by the preposition a (to), and also expresses an undefined or undetermined action that falls upon the subject. (In this sense it serves the verb, but it's not part of it).
Not sure if this clears a little bit the problem or causes more confusion, but hope it has helped.
I see it as a pronoun rather than as a part of the verb. For example, if you are referring to several people (plural) you use les: "A mis abuelos les va mal con su móvil". If you're referring to one single person, you use le, as in the example given above: "A mi abuelo le va mal con su móvil". So, it's linked to the subject, not the verb. But, even if you already named the subject (your grandparent(s), in these cases), you have to refer to them again with the pronoun, whenever you use the preposition a (to). Even if it seems redundant (it's not redundant for a native speaker).
It sort of complements the direction established by the preposition a (to), and also expresses an undefined or undetermined action that falls upon the subject. (In this sense it serves the verb, but it's not part of it).
Not sure if this clears a little bit the problem or causes more confusion, but hope it has helped.
Actually, the le here is compulsory, as the subject precedes the verb. If you look at this page by the RAE (link - Spanish only) and scroll to 5.2, it says that if the noun concerned precedes the verb, then repeating it with le/lo/la is compulsory.
You are right AquisM...
This is very helpful rule, I forget it...
only a small addition:
The non-pronominal (most of them), you can say, as in the example in RAE page:
A tu hermano lo vi en el cine (I saw your brother at the cinema)
With that compulsory pronoun, equivalent to:
(Yo) Vi a tu hermano en el cine. (only with small the difference of highlight "tu hermano" in the first example)
But in pronominal verbs like in this particular case ("A mi abuelo le va mal con su móvil"), you always use the pronoun, don't have an easy equivalent without.
but this general rule also serves...
This is very helpful rule, I forget it...
only a small addition:
The non-pronominal (most of them), you can say, as in the example in RAE page:
A tu hermano lo vi en el cine (I saw your brother at the cinema)
With that compulsory pronoun, equivalent to:
(Yo) Vi a tu hermano en el cine. (only with small the difference of highlight "tu hermano" in the first example)
But in pronominal verbs like in this particular case ("A mi abuelo le va mal con su móvil"), you always use the pronoun, don't have an easy equivalent without.
but this general rule also serves...
Original post by AquisM
Actually, the le here is compulsory, as the subject precedes the verb. If you look at this page by the RAE (link - Spanish only) and scroll to 5.2, it says that if the noun concerned precedes the verb, then repeating it with le/lo/la is compulsory.
Indeed, it's compulsory; without it, these type of phrases don't make much sense (or sound awkward, at least).
I've been using Pimsleur to learn Spanish (available in the US only as far as I know) and it is amazing
Hey guys, I really would love to learn Spanish and I would like to start off with some self-learning. Right now Im really overwhelmed by all the options but I also know to learn a language you need to have structure as well as interactivity (I will definitely look into classes once I come back from abroad).
So can somebody give me some advice?
So can somebody give me some advice?
Original post by FirstDiscovery
Hey guys, I really would love to learn Spanish and I would like to start off with some self-learning. Right now Im really overwhelmed by all the options but I also know to learn a language you need to have structure as well as interactivity (I will definitely look into classes once I come back from abroad).
So can somebody give me some advice?
So can somebody give me some advice?
¡Hola! I'm studying GCSE Spanish at an evening class and it's going OK, but sometimes I find it hard. Either way, I would recommend Teach Yourself Complete Spanish as a good start. The book has a lot to offer if you really maximise all the activities.
Hello
I am doing the SQA Higher Exam this year, having a only started doing the subject on November and only having a French backgroind from previous school years. I need help on my Speaking this is what i've got and would someone be able to kindly have a look at it and see if it is alright?
Health
Creo que la comida sana es muy importante. En la actualidad es más común que los niños coman alimentos grasos. En mi opinión, una dieta equilibrada es lo mejor.
Una dieta equilibrada es muy útil y merece la pena seguirla. Por ejemplo, puedes comer comida sana y a veces comida para llevar.
Lo más importante es que la vida sana no solo te ayuda a parecer que estás mejor sino que también te hace sentir mejor.
Sport
Yo diría que soy mucho deportivo. Creo que el deporte mantearme en forma y es un buen manera divertirse pero también para relajar.
El deporte es todavía totalmente importante porque nos ayuda a mantener nuestro corazón sano, fomenta una sensación de bienestar, alivia el estrés y contribuye a mantener un peso equilibrado.
Mi deporte favorito es fútbol. Me encanta jugar y ver al fútbol. Es muy agradable e interactivo. En 2009, cuando tiene catorce años, me Participé en un concurso fútbol con mi equipo de instituto y gané una medallilla oro!
Leisure
Aparte de deportes, en mi tiempo libre normalmente salir con mis amigos, ir al cine. Si yo estaba quedando la noche, escucharía de música y vería la tele Me encanta la música folk y Mi grupo música favorita es ??Mumford and sons?. De hecho, el ano pasado, fui a concierto por ver ellos con mis amigos. Fue excepcional. Una noche extraordinario!
Me gustan todo tipo de programas pero prefiero las series crimen de Estados Unidos, especialmente, ??CSI?. Los únicos programas televisivos que no me gustan son los programas de tele realidad porque todo es igual. Es mucho aburrido.
Desafortunadamente este año hay que estudiar, y tengo muchos deberes, entonces no tengo mucho tiempo libre. Después de mis examines, Puedo hacer lo que quiero.
Thank You
I am doing the SQA Higher Exam this year, having a only started doing the subject on November and only having a French backgroind from previous school years. I need help on my Speaking this is what i've got and would someone be able to kindly have a look at it and see if it is alright?
Health
Creo que la comida sana es muy importante. En la actualidad es más común que los niños coman alimentos grasos. En mi opinión, una dieta equilibrada es lo mejor.
Una dieta equilibrada es muy útil y merece la pena seguirla. Por ejemplo, puedes comer comida sana y a veces comida para llevar.
Lo más importante es que la vida sana no solo te ayuda a parecer que estás mejor sino que también te hace sentir mejor.
Sport
Yo diría que soy mucho deportivo. Creo que el deporte mantearme en forma y es un buen manera divertirse pero también para relajar.
El deporte es todavía totalmente importante porque nos ayuda a mantener nuestro corazón sano, fomenta una sensación de bienestar, alivia el estrés y contribuye a mantener un peso equilibrado.
Mi deporte favorito es fútbol. Me encanta jugar y ver al fútbol. Es muy agradable e interactivo. En 2009, cuando tiene catorce años, me Participé en un concurso fútbol con mi equipo de instituto y gané una medallilla oro!
Leisure
Aparte de deportes, en mi tiempo libre normalmente salir con mis amigos, ir al cine. Si yo estaba quedando la noche, escucharía de música y vería la tele Me encanta la música folk y Mi grupo música favorita es ??Mumford and sons?. De hecho, el ano pasado, fui a concierto por ver ellos con mis amigos. Fue excepcional. Una noche extraordinario!
Me gustan todo tipo de programas pero prefiero las series crimen de Estados Unidos, especialmente, ??CSI?. Los únicos programas televisivos que no me gustan son los programas de tele realidad porque todo es igual. Es mucho aburrido.
Desafortunadamente este año hay que estudiar, y tengo muchos deberes, entonces no tengo mucho tiempo libre. Después de mis examines, Puedo hacer lo que quiero.
Thank You
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