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US came within an inch of nuking itself

This story is pretty chilling.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/20/usaf-atomic-bomb-north-carolina-1961

Apparently US nuclear bombers nearly detonated an H-Bomb (of about 4 Megatons - a Type 39 H Bomb) over Goldsboro, North Carolina, in 1961, potentially killing outright at least half a million people and depositing lethal radiation over about 5-10 million.

Of the four bomb safety systems that were supposed to work when a bomb was accidentally dropped, three failed and only a small switch prevented the disaster.

Striking evidence that nuclear weapons have not been as safe in the hands of the west as has often been claimed in justification for retaining them.

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1961? Striking but bloody hell I thought it was recent, I hope the systems now are much safer...
Original post by John Stuart Mill
1961? Striking but bloody hell I thought it was recent, I hope the systems now are much safer...


Makes you wonder. Weren't there reports of cruise missiles flying off course? I believe they shot some down that had 'deviated' from plan. Presumably this risk is less now because planes aren't carrying nukes, but you can't help wondering if the US missile command and control systems (and those elsewhere, like in Britain) are really as safe and certain as they claim.
Reply 3
I wonder who they would have blamed it on an gone to war with
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Makes you wonder. Weren't there reports of cruise missiles flying off course? I believe they shot some down that had 'deviated' from plan. Presumably this risk is less now because planes aren't carrying nukes, but you can't help wondering if the US missile command and control systems (and those elsewhere, like in Britain) are really as safe and certain as they claim.


I don't like the thought of having these things in the first place but given their history of exploding cus some doofus made a mistake i'm not sure they're worth the 'defence'...
Reply 5
Original post by Fullofsurprises


Of the four bomb safety systems that were supposed to work when a bomb was accidentally dropped, three failed and only a small switch prevented the disaster.


So they appreciated that the first 3 security systems were not fool-proof and they had the 4th

Great planning
Original post by ed-
I wonder who they would have blamed it on an gone to war with


It's distinctly plausible that the government would have totally panicked about the realities of admitting that they had just devastated the Eastern seaboard and would have decided instead to say it was the Russians.
I would imagine bomb technology has come a long way in 50 years, and so the failures that happened then are unlikely to happen now (especially as any incident such as this will provoke a re-working of the safety systems, etc).
Original post by rmhumphries
I would imagine bomb technology has come a long way in 50 years, and so the failures that happened then are unlikely to happen now (especially as any incident such as this will provoke a re-working of the safety systems, etc).


Well one can hope but it only takes one mistake... they're not getting less powerful that's for sure.
Original post by TenOfThem
So they appreciated that the first 3 security systems were not fool-proof and they had the 4th

Great planning


From another article - note the comment from the engineer at Sandia. It sounds as if it wasn't a good story.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/20/usaf-atomic-bomb-north-carolina-1961#start-of-comments


Though there has been persistent speculation about how narrow the Goldsboro escape was, the US government has repeatedly publicly denied that its nuclear arsenal has ever put Americans' lives in jeopardy through safety flaws. But in the newly-published document, a senior engineer in the Sandia national laboratories responsible for the mechanical safety of nuclear weapons concludes that "one simple, dynamo-technology, low voltage switch stood between the United Statesand a major catastrophe".



Reply 10
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Makes you wonder. Weren't there reports of cruise missiles flying off course? I believe they shot some down that had 'deviated' from plan. Presumably this risk is less now because planes aren't carrying nukes, but you can't help wondering if the US missile command and control systems (and those elsewhere, like in Britain) are really as safe and certain as they claim.


Completely agree, even the Pentagon said "cruise missiles do not always hit their target". That's a massive reason why I am against military intervention is Syria, countless more people would die. That and it is illegal to airstrike on Syria.
I'm sure it's safer now especially now it's missile based and not bombs. Still scary though.

However the main argument for Iran not having them is not that they wouldn't be safe but that they want to wipe Israel off the map.
Original post by The Angry Stoic
I'm sure it's safer now especially now it's missile based and not bombs. Still scary though.

However the main argument for Iran not having them is not that they wouldn't be safe but that they want to wipe Israel off the map.


What and commit suicide? The Russians would probably help us nuke Iran lol...
Original post by John Stuart Mill
What and commit suicide? The Russians would probably help us nuke Iran lol...


They are pretty crazy!

They could put all sorts of spins on it. Maybe Islamic terrorists steal the weapons and attack Israel? Iran would be innocent?
Original post by The Angry Stoic
They are pretty crazy!

They could put all sorts of spins on it. Maybe Islamic terrorists steal the weapons and attack Israel? Iran would be innocent?


Maybe but I doubt Russia would risk nuclear war and losing trade with Europe and USA because Iran threw a hissy fit, would probably nuke them even if there wasn't conclusive evidence - just look at how the US are acting on Syria.
Reply 15
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Makes you wonder. Weren't there reports of cruise missiles flying off course? I believe they shot some down that had 'deviated' from plan. Presumably this risk is less now because planes aren't carrying nukes, but you can't help wondering if the US missile command and control systems (and those elsewhere, like in Britain) are really as safe and certain as they claim.


To fire a nuke from a Minute-man missile Silo in the US it requires two men to each turn a key, at one point the men in these silos realized that they could be fired by one man if he tied a spoon to the key, he could use this to flick one key whilst turning his own. Making it possible to fire a nuke on his own. The US claims to have fixed it but allegedly they haven't.

Nukes at an RAF base were once kept safe by a bike lock and could be armed with an allen key

Technically a UK sub commander could fire a nuke on his own authority, the Royal Navy believes so firmly in the integrity of it's captains they don't tend to worry too much about this.

The Russians once almost fired their nukes because someone mistook a flock of Geese on radar for an incoming attack.

Feel safe yet?
Original post by Aj12
To fire a nuke from a Minute-man missile Silo in the US it requires two men to each turn a key, at one point the men in these silos realized that they could be fired by one man if he tied a spoon to the key, he could use this to flick one key whilst turning his own. Making it possible to fire a nuke on his own. The US claims to have fixed it but allegedly they haven't.

Nukes at an RAF base were once kept safe by a bike lock and could be armed with an allen key

Technically a UK sub commander could fire a nuke on his own authority, the Royal Navy believes so firmly in the integrity of it's captains they don't tend to worry too much about this.

The Russians once almost fired their nukes because someone mistook a flock of Geese on radar for an incoming attack.

Feel safe yet?


Particularly like the detail about the bike lock and allen key on our nuclear base. How very British. :rofl:

I expect they would all have a nice cup of tea and a bit of a chat about the pros and cons before doing anything hasty like an actual launch though.
Original post by The Angry Stoic
I'm sure it's safer now especially now it's missile based and not bombs. Still scary though.

However the main argument for Iran not having them is not that they wouldn't be safe but that they want to wipe Israel off the map.


its something like 5000 missiles to 4000 bombs for the Murican's

I have no idea about Russia but I think they have more bombs less missiles,though they seem to have a lot of funky vehicles that can fire missiles then scoot off (think SCUD but bigger)

On a separate note how ****ing cool do the USAF nuclear jobs look :biggrin: I'd give anything to do something like that.

http://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/missile-and-space-systems-electronic-maintenance/

http://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/nuclear-weapons/
Original post by The Angry Stoic
They are pretty crazy!

They could put all sorts of spins on it. Maybe Islamic terrorists steal the weapons and attack Israel? Iran would be innocent?


Really doubt they would nuke Israel for no good reason. Anyone can put 'all sorts of spins on it' to justify their own actions.
Original post by AwsomePossum
its something like 5000 missiles to 4000 bombs for the Murican's

I have no idea about Russia but I think they have more bombs less missiles,though they seem to have a lot of funky vehicles that can fire missiles then scoot off (think SCUD but bigger)

On a separate note how ****ing cool do the USAF nuclear jobs look :biggrin: I'd give anything to do something like that.

http://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/missile-and-space-systems-electronic-maintenance/

http://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/nuclear-weapons/


Really, you would want to work with nuclear weapons? I hope they don't get them up at like 7:00am

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