'High quality' unis to increase tuition fees
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I think raising the fees is justified. In fact, lowering the fees is probably unfair to the general population. Why should everybody have to pay so that only some can go to university? Funnily enough, it sounds very elitist that students get the right to free education at the expense of the working majority.
We ought to appreciate the efforts the university makes for students (libraries, staffing, campuses) and how valuable money really is. Instead of having 'free' higher education funded by the taxpayer, who on average is unlikely to actually go to university, we give them a break and put the money directly between the student and the university. The new loan system is well structured, despite having a misleading name. It's simply an investment system made by universities into graduates. The goal: They give you the materials to learn, you graduate, you do well in work, they get some return. It's the universities that run the risk of losing out on money, not the student. Ideally, it will make sure they take their teaching standards and facilities seriously and to select better applicants/staff.
We ought to appreciate the efforts the university makes for students (libraries, staffing, campuses) and how valuable money really is. Instead of having 'free' higher education funded by the taxpayer, who on average is unlikely to actually go to university, we give them a break and put the money directly between the student and the university. The new loan system is well structured, despite having a misleading name. It's simply an investment system made by universities into graduates. The goal: They give you the materials to learn, you graduate, you do well in work, they get some return. It's the universities that run the risk of losing out on money, not the student. Ideally, it will make sure they take their teaching standards and facilities seriously and to select better applicants/staff.
Seems like an awful decision, we already have a problem whereby a lot of students still have to question whether they actually get £9000 worth of education per year (I'm sure there was a thread on it before? or a news article.. idk) and I'm skeptical as to how this ''quality teaching is going to be assessed''.
Though I have to say I'm not overly surprised the conservatives are once again doing something to benefit the wealthier.
Though I have to say I'm not overly surprised the conservatives are once again doing something to benefit the wealthier.
Original post by Daftpunker
You guys hold the power. No one is putting a gun to your head making you go to uni. If you want to see a stop to a rise in fees unite and make a stand and refuse to pay it.
Nice idea, but it relies on nobody breaking ranks. And fundamentally the rich kids won't care.
The fees should not be a barrier to entry unless the system of repayment changes. As long as repayment remains means-tested and post-university, I don't think there's actually an issue with the proposals. The main issue is scaremongering and misinformation putting underprivileged kids off.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by TurboCretin
Nice idea, but it relies on nobody breaking ranks. And fundamentally the rich kids won't care.
The fees should not be a barrier to entry unless the system of repayment changes. As long as repayment remains means-tested and post-university, I don't think there's actually an issue with the proposals. The main issue is scaremongering and misinformation putting underprivileged kids off.
The fees should not be a barrier to entry unless the system of repayment changes. As long as repayment remains means-tested and post-university, I don't think there's actually an issue with the proposals. The main issue is scaremongering and misinformation putting underprivileged kids off.
The other part is the very nasty truth that the government reserves the right to change the conditions at any time. They could turn around tomorrow and say "Actually, if after 25/30 years you haven't paid back the full amount, the remainder will now be added to your mortgage should you be a homeowner and collected that way in addition to a 10% administration charge" - and under the terms there'd be nothing you could do about it. You MIGHT be able to launch a case in the European courts if we're still involved with them, but it's very iffy. The government reserving the right to retrospectively change repayment terms really should not be permitted.
absolutely heartbreaking. Does mean, as I've applied this year, I could be paying in excess of £9,000 for my university fees?
Just another way to further entrench the class system and make it even harder for the poorest in society to succeed. Nice one Davey-C.
Just another way to further entrench the class system and make it even harder for the poorest in society to succeed. Nice one Davey-C.
Original post by OU Student
They're not paid back in the same way as other loans. You pay back 9% once you earn over £21k per year. Your loan is then wiped after 30 years. Under the old system, it's (it goes up with inflation each year) it's 9% over approx. £17k per year.
It's one of the cheapest loans you can get.
It's one of the cheapest loans you can get.
With current repayment conditions. Which are subject to change (and any changes will go through in a budget so will be impossible to stop or amend through campaigning).
Original post by picklescamp
absolutely heartbreaking. Does mean, as I've applied this year, I could be paying in excess of £9,000 for my university fees?
Just another way to further entrench the class system and make it even harder for the poorest in society to succeed. Nice one Davey-C.
Just another way to further entrench the class system and make it even harder for the poorest in society to succeed. Nice one Davey-C.
Inflation related changes are proposed for 17/18 entry students (with all students paying the same annual fees for the duration of the course)
The big increases are proposed for 2018/19 entry onwards (so the current GCSE cohort).
Chances are they won't quite hit those timescales but they'll want any protests to have died down by the 2020 May elections.
Original post by TabulaSmaragdina
Not if you only want to go to university to be able to earn a high salary.
And what makes you think that's the case?
Original post by addylad
And what makes you think that's the case?
That's the only case where "nobody needs to go to university" would be relevant. You can obtain as much information as you are likely to get at university at a cheaper cost by hiring a private tutor, or for free online.People are intentionally paying more to go to university, why? Convention perhaps.
Original post by Student403
I'm still p***ed off that, although I'm a UK passport holder and have lived there for several years, just because my parents came out to the middle east for their work, I have to pay 26k a year.
Do you not qualify for the 'temporary absence' status?
Original post by jessedoell
Do you not qualify for the 'temporary absence' status?
I wish I did, but my parents have worked here for so long and the marriage/custody is a bit weird.
Bad idea, hopefully it won't happen. Fees are not the big issue anyway; I am much more concerned that there are plans to freeze the loan repayment threshold.
That rule exists to prevent people with British passports who have lived their whole lives abroad from getting a government loan. They have to draw the line somewhere. If you can't afford it then simply wait a few years. You only need to be in the UK three years.
Original post by Student403
I'm still p***ed off that, although I'm a UK passport holder and have lived there for several years, just because my parents came out to the middle east for their work, I have to pay 26k a year.
That rule exists to prevent people with British passports who have lived their whole lives abroad from getting a government loan. They have to draw the line somewhere. If you can't afford it then simply wait a few years. You only need to be in the UK three years.
Original post by Snufkin
Bad idea, hopefully it won't happen. Fees are not the big issue anyway; I am much more concerned that there are plans to freeze the loan repayment threshold.
That rule exists to prevent people with British passports who have lived their whole lives abroad from getting a government loan. They have to draw the line somewhere. If you can't afford it then simply wait a few years. You only need to be in the UK three years.
That rule exists to prevent people with British passports who have lived their whole lives abroad from getting a government loan. They have to draw the line somewhere. If you can't afford it then simply wait a few years. You only need to be in the UK three years.
But I haven't lived abroad my whole life. I don't understand why it has to be the most recent three years. I have lived there for three years. Just not my most recent ones.
I can afford it, but only barely. But I just can't wait a few years because my course, being rigorous, requires a lot of knowledge from A levels which I would have by then forgotten.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Student403
But I haven't lived abroad my whole life. I don't understand why it has to be the most recent three years. I have lived there for three years. Just not my most recent ones.
I can afford it, but only barely. But I just can't wait a few years because my course, being rigorous, requires a lot of knowledge from A levels which I would have by then forgotten.
I can afford it, but only barely. But I just can't wait a few years because my course, being rigorous, requires a lot of knowledge from A levels which I would have by then forgotten.
There's no point arguing about it, that is the system and frankly it is pretty fair. You could wait three years, I'm sure universities would understand the delay and there are things you could do in the meantime to keep up your subject knowledge.
Original post by Snufkin
There's no point arguing about it, that is the system and frankly it is pretty fair. You could wait three years, I'm sure universities would understand the delay and there are things you could do in the meantime to keep up your subject knowledge.
I agree that there's no point in arguing. But the system being fair in that respect is your opinion.
Original post by Saoirse:3
The other part is the very nasty truth that the government reserves the right to change the conditions at any time. They could turn around tomorrow and say "Actually, if after 25/30 years you haven't paid back the full amount, the remainder will now be added to your mortgage should you be a homeowner and collected that way in addition to a 10% administration charge" - and under the terms there'd be nothing you could do about it. You MIGHT be able to launch a case in the European courts if we're still involved with them, but it's very iffy. The government reserving the right to retrospectively change repayment terms really should not be permitted.
Except that wouldn't make much sense, as not everyone has a mortgage and those who do make their repayments to a private sector bank or building society. Quite how that'd work out I don't know.
I'm not sure what case you'd launch in the 'European courts' either, whether ECtHR (which is not a court of the EU, incidentally) or the ECJ.
Original post by Daftpunker
There are many examples through history where the masses through organisation and will power have rebelled against state enforced charges for all sorts of reasons. Most famously US boycott and more recently the "Twenties plenty" campaign for away football ticket prices.
I don't think the majority of the population will rally against the government so that a bunch of entitled young people fresh out of school can get a costly education, paid for by people who mostly didn't go to university, so these young people can study degrees that make them no more qualified to perform the jobs they ultimately go for.
Pay for it yourself, either with loaned money or go and make enough money to pay upfront.
Original post by TabulaSmaragdina
No, I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Any idiot can recycle metals, and that's a lucrative enterprise if you're willing to work hard. Rent a garage, it costs money to dispose of an old car so people are willing to sell them at very low prices, strip the cars, collect car battery lead plates, copper elements, brass, if you're lucky, platinum (e.g. in catalytic converters), valued at around £20 per g! http://www.scrapsales.co.uk/
All it requires is hard graft, and most people are either lazy or would rather spend their time "enjoying" themselves, that's the true reason why people are trapped on low salaries.
The market is saturated because the majority of people wants the easier option of having a job handed to them rather than creating their own jobs.
All it requires is hard graft, and most people are either lazy or would rather spend their time "enjoying" themselves, that's the true reason why people are trapped on low salaries.
The market is saturated because the majority of people wants the easier option of having a job handed to them rather than creating their own jobs.
You are serious that any idiot can scrap cars?, I bet if I did a poll 90%+ people can't do what you are saying anyone can do.You are forgetting about all the tools required to break up the metal and you need people with high amounts of skill to wield this tools- its probably something you could learn in an Apprenticeship but it would require a lot of learning to master its certainly not something simple as you are claiming.
If stripping cars and other metals was so easy why don't people just do it themselves instead of going to the scrap dealers.You are also assuming there is a lot of scrap metal to go around that people would be willing to sell, you'd obviously have to compete with all the other scrap dealers as well and I'm not convinced that you would be able to make a living out of it(my family gave some scrap to a dealer during a cleanup of our house and if that wasn't the case we wouldn't have been giving them anything, most people sell their cars,computers,TVs etc and they get sold on to someone else.
If I opened a scrap dealer I don't think I would find that I had loads of customers, part of this is also you have a lot of business and marketing ability to make any business work something which a lot of people lack.
Also, is it that cheap to rent out a garage?(on top of your current rent and you have to pay for all the tools and you may not have that much available as you haven't had a job).
I'm my opinion there are 3 options:
either:
1. Tories are planning to make the rich richer and the poor poorer which is very unfair to poor families with kids that are planning to attend university.
2. They are sick of people who go to Uni to get a social life- if fees rise people will only go to Uni for a good purpose.
3. They are trying to discourage people from going to Uni so that they will have less career options.
either:
1. Tories are planning to make the rich richer and the poor poorer which is very unfair to poor families with kids that are planning to attend university.
2. They are sick of people who go to Uni to get a social life- if fees rise people will only go to Uni for a good purpose.
3. They are trying to discourage people from going to Uni so that they will have less career options.
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