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    This is a topic that has been on my mind for a long time and until today I've been too scared to voice my opinions on it for fear of backlash from my ethnic community.
    I'm aware this topic has been done to death by european nationals that are experiencing the downsides of living in a society where they are being forced to get used to living with so many different people with societal values that are completely different to theirs in order to seem poilitically correct and tolerant despite the harm it's doing to their own society. But as somewhat of an outsider and as someone that this issue Europe ( The migrant crisis) is facing doesn't directly affect I'd like to share what I think of the issue. And my opinions aren't restricted to just Europe but to the world at large.
    Will try to keep it short.



    1. Multiculturalism is a catalyst to war and conflict. Lets take this scenario for example; In a chemistry lab, all the different chemicals are stored separately in their own special bottles specifically designed for the chemical that is being stored within. What happens when you decide to pour all those chemicals in one large vat? There's likely going to be an explosion that'd tear the roof off. Different places have different societal values and it's impossible to ask people to just 'respect' that. Some people can and some people can not. For example some cultures accept child marriages and think sex with minors is justifiable but becasue of my own upbringing and personal morals I just can't accept it and I never will. I personally can not even share a room with someone that thinks that that's okay. It's not difficult how to see how that could possibly lead to conflict and tensions between two groups. Which brings me to my next point.

    2. Multiculturalism incites racial hatred. People would love to assume that being around people who are completely different to you culturally and scoially would cause people to become more tolerant but it does the exact opposite. It highlights the irreconcilable differences between the two groups of people and constantly being exposed to societal values tnat you don't agree with/hate will one way or another lead to believing that anyone who holds such opinions must be less than human and scum. It breeds an us vs them mentality. It's obvious that this will become problematic in the long run.


    3. It affects the legal/judicial system in a country. Once a country's government starts changing it's laws in order to appease a minority rather than the majority then there's a problem. For example, a country in which child marriage is illegal laxing it's laws on child marriage in order to appease a small minority of people. There's no way that won't casue outrage. That's not how legal systems should work.


    4. It dilutes the culture of the host nation. As much as people don't want to admit it, having so many different people coming to live in one place who must by all means take every aspect of their own culture with them, effectively erodes the cultural and national identity of the place they're moving to and it's not fair to the natives of that place. I sure as hell wouldn't want thousands of people to come in to my country and refuse to integrate thereby burying my country's rich cultural heritage..



    After all that's been said, it's clear that multiculturalism is just a utopian fantasy that can't be fully achieved anywhere as much as it pains me to say. I can't think of one place where people of conflicting backgrounds and origins live together in perfect peace and harmony.
    You even get family members and relatives calling you derogatory names for trying to integrate in the new society. (Ie south asians calling other well adjusted south asians 'coconuts')

    By no means a solution but some advice:
    When deciding to relocate to a new country you must make this decision. Are you going to be able to accept the laws, societal values and culture of the host nation? Are you going to be kind and respectful to locals even if you don't agree with their culture? Will you make an effort to learn the language of the host nation you are moving to? Are you going to try and integrate into the society and not form cliques and seperate communities that refuse to mix with others?
    If the answer to all these is no then I think it's best to stay in your own country.

    The only thing I can justify taking along with you are aspects of your culture that your host nation can actively benefit from (ie cuisine, entertainment etc)


    Tldr: Multiculturalism doesn't work effectively anywhere


    Conflicting opinions are welcome
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    I don't agree with you at all, it's too much of a broad thing to be able to say it simply doesn't work. There's thousands of cultures in the world, most modern cultures are mixtures of older cultural groups. Just because group A doesn't seem to be working with group B right now, doesn't mean that group A doesn't work fine with group D, group E and group F.

    Most of the time multiculturalism works and nobody notices, it's only when there's a problem that you make a problem about it. The country I am from is by definition multicultural, we don't have a 'host' culture yet we don't have any major racial hatred issues or people not integrating. When I moved from that country to Britain, I didn't need to integrate. I already did 90% of things the same, changing the little things were probably pointless.
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    I actually completely agree. Like you said, it has it's benefits when on a small scale (cuisine, introducing people to new cultures etc) but on large scales it doesn't work. People start to form sides and get angry with each other. And both sides are at fault, not just the "racist whites." People should not live in 'communities' and their little bubbles which are pretty much identical copies from the country they came from. When you go to a country, at least TRY to abide by their rules and culture, as because, like you said, it drains a culture out. Like someone (I forgot who) said, people who don't believe in mass amounts of multi-culturalism are the true multi-culturalists, because they actually believe in culture. And this goes for any place, not just Europe.
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    I don't agree with you at all, it's too much of a broad thing to be able to say it simply doesn't work. There's thousands of cultures in the world, most modern cultures are mixtures of older cultural groups. Just because group A doesn't seem to be working with group B right now, doesn't mean that group A doesn't work fine with group D, group E and group F.

    Most of the time multiculturalism works and nobody notices, it's only when there's a problem that you make a problem about it. The country I am from is by definition multicultural, we don't have a 'host' culture yet we don't have any major racial hatred issues or people not integrating. When I moved from that country to Britain, I didn't need to integrate. I already did 90% of things the same, changing the little things were probably pointless.
    Whilst I acknowledge that some cultures can agree on some things, it's incredibly difficult to agree on everything and get along completely. It's like American and British culture. Both are very similar in a lot of respects but you still get a large number people from these two places that hate each other for the most trivial reasons.

    I'm guessing you're from an African country becasue I've seen you mention it before but I really can't think of any african country that hasn't faced or is facing issues to do with tribalism.
    If you don't mind me asking where are you from?
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    You are right, Muslims are like sodium and Christians are like water, when they touch each other, there is fire like really hot and firey coloured. I have seen this in real life when a vicar touched an inman and there was a jet of flame and sodium hydroxide was produced.

    I think instead of using the Solway process to make sodium hydroxide, I am going to start a factory to make it by putting Christians and Muslims together.
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    I think you've completely misunderstood what multiculturalism is about, in that simplistically, it is the "practice" of your cultural values (i.e: music, cuisine, arts, language etc etc) within the confines of the law.
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    I agree with all your points, but only to an extent. Yeah, there does need to be one dominant culture for the sake of solidarity.

    However I think it's fine while secondary cultures are kept as just that, secondary. So many cultures do manage to co-exist peacefully, look at East Asians, look at Indians, look at other European cultures. I think people are perfectly willing to make small sacrifices to get along with those around them.


    The thing is that some cultures just aren't capable of getting along with others, at least in their current form. To say all multiculturalism doesn't work because some cultures can't integrate is a massive overstatement.
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    I think globalisation and multiculturalism go hand in hand. One could argue that globalisation and multiculturalism helps to break down cultural barriers and bring people closer together. I think what it means to be French, English, Spanish etc... is less culturally different now than it once was say 100 or 200 years ago. I would say we have become more homogeneous and our cultures have evolved to become more similar.

    With the expansion of the internet now and increasingly globalised world, people are going to come more and more in contact with each other, and I think this will have similar effects in eroding cultural and societal differences. I am not a cultural relativist, and I don't believe all cultures to be equal. For example, certain cultures one sees in East Asia and among Jewish people place great emphasis on educational achievements, more so than other cultures, and this has quantifiable results which we can observe through statistics. I believe, especially in our global world, we will see survival of the fittest among cultures, and those cultures that carry values and practices that help people succeed most in our modern globalised world will survive and prosper.
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    Whilst I acknowledge that some cultures can agree on some things, it's incredibly difficult to agree on everything and get along completely. It's like American and British culture. Both are very similar in a lot of respects but you still get a large number people from these two places that hate each other for the most trivial reasons.

    I'm guessing you're from an African country becasue I've seen you mention it before but I really can't think of any african country that hasn't faced or is facing issues to do with tribalism.
    If you don't mind me asking where are you from?
    Seychelles, tribalism is REALLLLLY not something we face at all, kinda funny that you mentioned it even.

    But American and British culture don't clash really, I mean I always go on about how much I find Americans annoying for saying things like soccer and their jingoistic nationalism but if I moved to America, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to adapt easily. The cultural differences between a lot of countries is just superficial.
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    I think multi-culturalism can work but some cultures can never be part of it.
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    True. Im gonna leave the UK and go back to my forefathers country.
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    interesting...

    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    I don't agree with you at all, it's too much of a broad thing to be able to say it simply doesn't work. There's thousands of cultures in the world, most modern cultures are mixtures of older cultural groups. Just because group A doesn't seem to be working with group B right now, doesn't mean that group A doesn't work fine with group D, group E and group F.

    Most of the time multiculturalism works and nobody notices, it's only when there's a problem that you make a problem about it. The country I am from is by definition multicultural, we don't have a 'host' culture yet we don't have any major racial hatred issues or people not integrating. When I moved from that country to Britain, I didn't need to integrate. I already did 90% of things the same, changing the little things were probably pointless.
    But I have to agree with him although I do see your point.
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    Multiculturalism doesn't work blame your leaders don't hate on us people of colour most white people won't do anything
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    Tldr: Multiculturalism doesn't work effectively anywhere


    Conflicting opinions are welcome[/QUOTE]

    Please state which culture still permits childsex, also humens are not simply chemicals that explode when mixed. You mention the erosion of culture as though it's some form of new threat pretty much all cultures are mixtures of previous cultures, this is evident in the etymology of words within respective languages i.e. the word "pyjamas" has persian origin.
    While, cliques are sometimes formed among first generation migrants they usually disappear with first generation migrants as the children will become integrated via the host nation's education system, the same can be said for language.
    Pretty much all current cultural differences are minor and reconcilable, due to globalism caused by new forms of communication and industry the planet has basically formed a consensus decision on what is and is not permissible.


    I live in a very multicultural area and have friends from a variety ethnic and socail backgrounds, to me diversity is a part of society. Functioning multicultural societies are not a dream but an inevitable future in the making, like it or not migration will take place due to various push and pull factors unique to nations eventually all societies will probably end up multiculturel and nations will find ways to deal with it, it's already happening
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    (Original post by Maker)
    You are right, Muslims are like sodium and Christians are like water, when they touch each other, there is fire like really hot and firey coloured. I have seen this in real life when a vicar touched an inman and there was a jet of flame and sodium hydroxide was produced.

    I think instead of using the Solway process to make sodium hydroxide, I am going to start a factory to make it by putting Christians and Muslims together.
    lol my thoughts exactly XD
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    Seychelles, tribalism is REALLLLLY not something we face at all, kinda funny that you mentioned it even.

    But American and British culture don't clash really, I mean I always go on about how much I find Americans annoying for saying things like soccer and their jingoistic nationalism but if I moved to America, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to adapt easily. The cultural differences between a lot of countries is just superficial.
    Well that's just you. Like I said some people can integrate well and some people can't. It's the people that can't that's the problem.

    You'd be surprised to find that there are some British people that can't even stay in the same room with a 'yank'.
    Though the cultural difference may be little some people always find tiny reasons to dislike someone from a different place than them.

    (Original post by Drummerz)
    interesting...



    But I have to agree with him although I do see your point.
    I'd like to hear your take on this...

    50% of my motivation for this thread was from my annoyance at how tribalism and multiculturalism has torn our country apart. It's what caused the civil war and before 1914 when the country was amalgamated by the British everything was really peaceful. Before then the country was divided into protectorates that where governed separately and every tribe lived symbiotically with one another (southerners provided oil, northerners provided food/agriculture) just so long as they had their seperate protectorates.
    Now you have people clamouring for a seperate country for southerners again like no one learnt their lesson from the first war.
    To me, multiculturalism just doesn't end well for everyone.
    I get there are people who are capable of getting along but not everyone is.
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    How do we define multiculturalism? Often the term gets conflated with a multiracial society. And I think this is the meaning the OP is adopting in her perceptive post.

    But multiculturalism has a specific meaning in the UK which is discrete from that. It was a set of policies which various Governments adopted which encouraged different ethnic groups and religions, and cultures to coexist in total equality. No-one was expected to give up their culture, they could retain it whilst still remaining British. It was closely allied to cultural relativism.

    This was totally different from, say, the French model, which expected every immigrant to become French. And asserted the primacy of the secular French Republic, which it believed to be superior.

    There is no doubt this model of laissez faire multiculturalism has failed. Britain has become balkanised. It has moved from being a nation, with a sense of identity and common purpose into something which it is hard for anyone to feel any allegiance to, to have any interest in. It is just a place where different ethnic groups live parallel lives Like a hotel with lots of strangers renting out rooms.

    The French model has also failed, as we can see with Charlie Hebdo and the Paris attacks. The Muslim minority has failed to integrate and become "French." Their religious identity is too strong to meld with a Christian or post Christian population.

    So I agree with the OP. Multiculturalism in the sense of a cohesive multi racial society has failed in the UK. We are a country divided amongst ourselves. With the very real possibility of it going tits up and descending into communal violence in the not too distant future.

    If you had said that two British citizens would hack a British soldier to death on the streets of London twenty years ago no-one would have believed you. Now no-one is surprised at all, indeed we expect it to happen at any time.

    So what will become normal and unsurprising in a further twenty years?
    .
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    (Original post by Maker)
    You are right, Muslims are like sodium and Christians are like water, when they touch each other, there is fire like really hot and firey coloured. I have seen this in real life when a vicar touched an inman and there was a jet of flame and sodium hydroxide was produced.

    I think instead of using the Solway process to make sodium hydroxide, I am going to start a factory to make it by putting Christians and Muslims together.

    I think you took the analogy a little too seriously .

    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    I agree with all your points, but only to an extent. Yeah, there does need to be one dominant culture for the sake of solidarity.

    However I think it's fine while secondary cultures are kept as just that, secondary. So many cultures do manage to co-exist peacefully, look at East Asians, look at Indians, look at other European cultures. I think people are perfectly willing to make small sacrifices to get along with those around them.

    The thing is that some cultures just aren't capable of getting along with others, at least in their current form. To say all multiculturalism doesn't work because some cultures can't integrate is a massive overstatement.
    I don't think I implied that people from different cultures shouldn't mix at all. And I acknowledged that there are people who are capable of integrating and making small sacrifices and people who just can't and that goes for every culture.

    Like I said you can bring along the aspects of your culture that can benefit your host country but to think you can package all of your societal/cultural values and move to another country and say because we live in a multicultural society we get to completely disregard the culture of our hosts is just wrong.

    We can't live in a perfectly multicultural society where multiple groups can keep all of their cultural traditions and exist within one single jurisdiction. It just can't work. You're going to end up pissing some people off. Proof of this are the various white genocide trolls that keep cropping up on Tsr.
    Like you said there should be a dominant culture that everyone adheres to (the host country's culture) just so peace can reign.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    How do we define multiculturalism? Often the term gets conflated with a multiracial society. And I think this is the meaning the OP is adopting in her perceptive post.

    But multiculturalism has a specific meaning in the UK which is discrete from that. It was a set of policies which various Governments adopted which encouraged different ethnic groups and religions, and cultures to coexist in total equality. No-one was expected to give up their culture, they could retain it whilst still remaining British. It was closely allied to cultural relativism.

    This was totally different from, say, the French model, which expected every immigrant to become French. And asserted the primacy of the secular French Republic, which it believed to be superior.

    There is no doubt this model of laissez faire multiculturalism has failed. Britain has become balkanised. It has moved from being a nation, with a sense of identity and common purpose into something which it is hard for anyone to feel any allegiance to, to have any interest in. It is just a place where different ethnic groups live parallel lives Like a hotel with lots of strangers renting out rooms.

    The French model has also failed, as we can see with Charlie Hebdo and the Paris attacks. The Muslim minority has failed to integrate and become "French." Their religious identity is too strong to meld with a Christian or post Christian population.

    So I agree with the OP. Multiculturalism in the sense of a cohesive multi racial society has failed in the UK. We are a country divided amongst ourselves. With the very real possibility of it going tits up and descending into communal violence in the not too distant future.

    If you had said that two British citizens would hack a British soldier to death on the streets of London twenty years ago no-one would have believed you. Now no-one is surprised at all, indeed we expect it to happen at any time.

    So what will become normal and unsurprising in a further twenty years?
    .

    Thank you!
    It seems people have misinterpreted the definition of multiculturalism I used in my post.

    According to Wikipedia, One thing a lot of multicultural ideologies have in common is that it's when different ethnic groups live together in a single jurisdiction whilst their respective cultures must remain distinct and there is equal respect for all of them.
    That just isn't possible no matter how much people want it to be.
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    I agree with this to an extent. I agree multicultralism does fuel racism but there are other factors that fuels racism such as lack of education, upbringing and media. On the contrary, doesn't mean that multicultralism doesn't work, it just means that it will only work if we get rid of the other factors that cause people to be prejudice to a certain culture or group of cultures, only then I think multicultralism will work.

    Furthermore, think members of certain cultures are quite ethnocentric, especially the elderly ones because of what they may have experienced when they migrated to a different country. As soon as you go down the ladder of generations, there it seems that the number of ethnocentric people decrease. Why?

    1. Education, especially here, has been made for this multicultral society to prevent any prejudice and discrimination. The education system teaches us to respect our differences and appreciate our similarities. As we go further in generations, peoples views may be different from previous generations about things such as this topic. If we give it a few years racism will decrease greatly.

    2. The generations upon generations will bring their children up differently from there predecessors because they live in a host country unlike their parents and also links in with education. The education system might be different there and there might not be a lot of educated people in home country.

    Therefore yes, multicultralism doesn't work but that doesn't mean it will never work if we don't do something about the other factors that contribute to lack of intergration.
 
 
 
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