Change the University fees from £9250 back to the £3000 fee for the UK Petition

Original post by an_atheist

According to the ONS the university population has more or less doubled over the last 20 years. Explain that away. You conveniently ignored everything pre 2011, after Blair left office.

pre-2011 the fees were £3,000 and funding came from the government through HEFCE. The petition and the OP isn't suggesting a move to pre-2011 fee regimes so it doesn't really have any relevance on the fact that the cost to the tax payer of the increase in fees has been in excess of £1.84b for a tiny increase in student numbers.

Reply 26

Scitty

16

If you want a compromise, they could scrap fees altogether for any vocational degrees - i.e. degrees that directly correlate to a job sector. So architecture, medicine, dentistry, nursing, veterinary, engineering, teaching etc. That way you'd have more of a guarantee that graduates would be employed and contributing back into the economy again. (I'm not sure which degrees exactly have a high graduate employment rate in their sector, those are just guesses - don't shoot me lol).

People should be free to choose to study whatever they like, but the thing is, so many people are now taking so called "useless" degrees like media, creative writing, psychology, history of art, gender studies etc. and there aren't enough jobs in those sectors. If they charged current prices for those, or dropped the price but made interviews mandatory, then the number of students going into degrees that already have more graduates than jobs should decrease. Plus if people have to be interviewed for uni courses, it could reduce the number of students going to uni because they don't know what else to do/, and help ensure people taking the degrees are people who genuinely want to do the subject, rather than just going because it's expected of them or for the "Uni Experience".

Combined with promoting apprenticeships better, we would hopefully have more skilled labourers and professionals coming out of school. And perhaps reduce the stereotype that people who go into apprenticeships simply "aren't good enough" for uni, which unfortunately is still perpetuated, by the the general public and educational sectors alike.

Or at least in my experience, anyway. Can't vouch for everywhere. :colondollar:

But, y'know, in an ideal world - free uni for all. Hence, signed. :tongue:

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 27

SomeGuyHere

10

I don't think they should be to be honest. With the loan you get it's basically just an extra tax on earnings over 21k. The fact it's 9k a year doesn't affect the student all that much. I wouldn't mind it being formalised into an actual "graduate tax" so everyone pays in proportion to their earnings for 30 years. It wouldn't make a massive difference to the government (who don't get all the money from loans back anyway) but would help people feel better because they won't have any actual debt. It would also set a clear date as to when this will no longer apply.

I'd like to see a little more money in the student's pockets as, at the moment, if your parents are an ok wage you're getting very little but the main thing that needs to change it attitude. Universities aren't just places of learning but businesses that should treat their students as customers. Far too often they hide behind the idea that you're "here to learn" when things aren't flexible such as the timetable. Practical sessions aren't changeable and the lecturers I've had just group us alphabetically. As an older student that's very frustrating because I'm not one of the 18 year olds straight from school who has no responsibilities. I have to work things around university who don't seem to care or even try to make allowances for those of us who do despite the solution being very simple (such as a group switch).

Generally speaking, right now, I wouldn't recommend university to anyone. I've learned from powerpoints and been frustrated by academics who think themselves better then everyone they teach.

I don't really care that the uni's are getting 9k from me but the way they act (very much like a school at the moment) doesn't fit the situation anymore. They need to place the students first.

Original post by Scitty

If you want a compromise, they could scrap fees altogether for any vocational degrees - i.e. degrees that directly correlate to a job sector. So architecture, medicine, dentistry, nursing, veterinary, engineering, teaching etc. That way you'd have more of a guarantee that graduates would be employed and contributing back into the economy again. (I'm not sure which degrees exactly have a high graduate employment rate in their sector, those are just guesses - don't shoot me lol).

[content remove]

Combined with promoting apprenticeships better, we would hopefully have more skilled labourers and professionals coming out of school. And perhaps reduce the stereotype that people who go into apprenticeships simply "aren't good enough" for uni, which unfortunately is still perpetuated, by the the general public and educational sectors alike.

. :tongue:

The few people I know taking such degrees. that directly relate to one job but can often lead on to others in that sector (such as paramedic studies), I feel would be much better as apprenticeships. She's working 12 hour shifts 3 days a week and paying the university for the privilege. I mean sure she's getting something out of it but I'd argue it's still working under even apprentce wage never mind the minimum wage.

Not the only example I have but she happens to be the last one I spoke too about it.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 28

RogerOxon

Original post by Sammylou40

Signed. But please use spellcheck!!! How is anyone going to take this seriously for uni level education if the spelling and grammar is so atrocious!!!!!!!

Almost as bad as using multiple exclamation marks :wink:

(I agree - the proposer badly needs to improve their writing)

I disagree with the petition. However, it would be more credible if it addressed who will pay for its additional spending.

Reply 29

izpenguin

15

I think tuition fees should be lower, because right now hardly anyone will pay off their debt and the government will have an issue in 30 years when it suddenly needs to pay off everyones debts, but it is just not going to happen. Tuition fees go up, but they never go down.

Reply 30

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/182953

Original post by RogerOxon

Almost as bad as using multiple exclamation marks :wink:

(I agree - the proposer badly needs to improve their writing)

I disagree with the petition. However, it would be more credible if it addressed who will pay for its additional spending.

See post 17. The £9k fee system is costing more than the previous system.

Reply 31

Fadel

16

Original post by Dirtybit

Nah, some of us had to pay 9k so the rest should

Selfish af

Reply 32

Reality Check

22

Original post by RogerOxon

Almost as bad as using multiple exclamation marks :wink:

(I agree - the proposer badly needs to improve their writing)

I disagree with the petition. However, it would be more credible if it addressed who will pay for its additional spending.

Indeed - I can't decide if the greengrocer's apostrophe helps or hinders the proposer's case for cheaper education.

I seem to remember reading a suggestion that each person should be issued with a silk purse filled with precious exclamation marks which would have to do for life - profligacy with social media would have dire consequences further down the tracks.

Reply 33

MonsoonFlower

22

Original post by XkulsumX

You lost the 1st time round, what makes you think you would win this time round?
Oh wait...your spelling and grammar is in very bad quality for the government to even consider...! :p:

Also I didn't sign the petition because as you can see, I graduated 2 and a half years ago before all of these changes happened. :redface:

The answer may sound pretty obvious but whenever something bad happens in or to this country; why does everyone feel the need to create and sign a petition?
Changes happen for reason; it's a part of life. :colonhash:

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 34

RogerOxon

Original post by PQ

See post 17. The £9k fee system is costing more than the previous system.

Are you really claiming that it would cost the government less if students (potentially) paid over £6k less per year? How do you explain that?

All things being equal, I do not see how students paying less can make it less expensive for the tax payer.

Reply 35

Original post by RogerOxon

Are you really claiming that it would cost the government less if students (potentially) paid over £6k less per year? How do you explain that?

All things being equal, I do not see how students paying less can make it less expensive for the tax payer.

I am claiming that it DID cost less.

If you want to understand why then you need to understand that the government didn't do their sums right when coming up with the current system.

Reply 36

RogerOxon

Original post by PQ

I am claiming that it DID cost less.

If you want to understand why then you need to understand that the government didn't do their sums right when coming up with the current system.

How were the loans accounted for? What else changed?

It is counter-intuitive that it would have cost less, with students borrowing / paying less. That claim therefore needs more detailed evidence IMO.

Are you also claiming that it would cost less overall now if fees were reduced?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 37