The Student Room Group

People who are into Politics:Do Ivanka and Jared have a moderating influence on Trump

What do you think about the conventional wisdom put forward by the media that Ivanka and Jared have a 'moderating' influence on 45th President of the United States, Donald Trump?

EDIT: this topic was recently covered in John Oliver's show
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by CompSciEngineer
What do you think about the conventional wisdom put forward by the media that Ivanka and Jared have a 'moderating' influence on 45th President of the United States, Donald Trump?

EDIT: this topic was recently covered in John Oliver's show


This presumes that Trump is the most powerful individual on the planet and is in fact calling the shots, when in reality he is nothing more than a puppet, controlled by the very special interests he claimed to be independent of during his campaign.

Can Ivanka and Jared influence policy during the Trump administration? Certainly - so long as their views are shared by the elites who continue to control American domestic and foreign policy; but any changes they seek to implement which are antithetical to the interests of the elites will never occur.
Original post by CompSciEngineer
What do you think about the conventional wisdom put forward by the media that Ivanka and Jared have a 'moderating' influence on 45th President of the United States, Donald Trump?

EDIT: this topic was recently covered in John Oliver's show


I think they may, although it pains me to say it. The last thing we need in the White House is a "moderate". not to mention that those who voted for him didn't want a moderate. We wanted someone who would discard conventional ways of doing things and gut whatever his closet Socialist predecessor was able to force on us. So far it appears he's been able to stand against any attempts to moderate his goals. For my money, his rolling back of hundreds of foolish regulations made his election one of the most important in my lifetime. Pressuring China over North Korea to the point that they publicly threw N.K. partially under the bus was no small victory.

To your question, I only hope he can stand against any pressure Ivanka and Jared may put on him for the next 8 years.
Original post by Stalin
This presumes that Trump is the most powerful individual on the planet and is in fact calling the shots, when in reality he is nothing more than a puppet, controlled by the very special interests he claimed to be independent of during his campaign.

Can Ivanka and Jared influence policy during the Trump administration? Certainly - so long as their views are shared by the elites who continue to control American domestic and foreign policy; but any changes they seek to implement which are antithetical to the interests of the elites will never occur.


There is not a shred of credible evidence for the crap you've written. I would urge you to grow up.
If you live in a free Democracy with free elections and a free press, whatever shape your country is in is your fault. The last American election should show you that there is no secret group of elite sitting anywhere and controlling anything. Quit blaming others for your problems particularly when they don't exist.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by oldercon1953
There is not a shred of credible evidence for the crap you've written. I would urge you to grow up.


https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B

If you live in a free Democracy with free elections and a free press, whatever shape your country is in is your fault.


Please, enlighten me as to how the United States is a free democracy when "economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism."

Or better yet, enlighten me as to how the country has a free press when Julian Assange was labelled a ”high tech terrorist” by Joe Biden for publishing leaked U.S. Government documents and a video showing US helicopter pilots shooting unarmed reporters in Iraq could be charged with espionage.

Or the fact that the mainstream media in the United States never do proper investigative journalism vis-à-vis their government - be it 9/11 or the Iraq War?

Or never challenge the political elites on domestic policy (i.e. college tuition or universal healthcare) or foreign policy (i.e. the U.S. unconditional support for Israel and Saudi Arabia).

The last American election should show you that there is no secret group of elite sitting anywhere and controlling anything.


Did you come to that conclusion because the candidate who claimed to be anti-establishment won?

Quit blaming others for your problems particularly when they don't exist.


Please quote the part where 'I blamed others for my problems'.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by oldercon1953
I think they may, although it pains me to say it. The last thing we need in the White House is a "moderate". not to mention that those who voted for him didn't want a moderate. We wanted someone who would discard conventional ways of doing things and gut whatever his closet Socialist predecessor was able to force on us.


Do elaborate on how Obama was/is a closet socialist.

So far it appears he's been able to stand against any attempts to moderate his goals.


What happened to the wall being built on day one and Mexico paying for it?

For my money, his rolling back of hundreds of foolish regulations made his election one of the most important in my lifetime.


Name five foolish regulations he has/will reverse.

Pressuring China over North Korea to the point that they publicly threw N.K. partially under the bus was no small victory.


And yet the North Korean regime remains intact and is free to continue its nuclear programme, which sounds like all talk and no action from your Dear Leader.
Original post by Stalin
Do elaborate on how Obama was/is a closet socialist.



What happened to the wall being built on day one and Mexico paying for it?



Name five foolish regulations he has/will reverse.



And yet the North Korean regime remains intact and is free to continue its nuclear programme, which sounds like all talk and no action from your Dear Leader.


1. He's a half-ass socialist because he fits my definition of one.

2. "...built on day one." Nonsense. He never said that. You should watch the news. The walls been started. The easy part is getting Mexico to pay for it.

3. I have not read the E.O.s but he repealed all the regs. stopping the pipeline and another important one was stopping the Army Corp Of Engineers from enforcing a lot of overeaching regs. such as a prohibition from developing land which had vernal ponds on it. Some as small as a few feet wide.

4. Trump never said he wanted to bring down the regime.

Have you noticed how much criticism of Trump has waned. Even in your post, all you've done is ask me 4 questions you already knew the answers to just so you might find fault in my replies.

Ooops, almost forgot. Didn't he get us out of that stupid Paris Accord?
Original post by Stalin
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B



Please, enlighten me as to how the United States is a free democracy when "economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism."

Or better yet, enlighten me as to how the country has a free press when Julian Assange was labelled a ”high tech terrorist” by Joe Biden for publishing leaked U.S. Government documents and a video showing US helicopter pilots shooting unarmed reporters in Iraq could be charged with espionage.

Or the fact that the mainstream media in the United States never do proper investigative journalism vis-à-vis their government - be it 9/11 or the Iraq War?

Or never challenge the political elites on domestic policy (i.e. college tuition or universal healthcare) or foreign policy (i.e. the U.S. unconditional support for Israel and Saudi Arabia).



Did you come to that conclusion because the candidate who claimed to be anti-establishment won?



Please quote the part where 'I blamed others for my problems'.


1. The U.S. is not a direct Democracy; the masses really are asses. Groups representing business interests SHOULD have a substantial impact on policy. Again, the last election should show even the most hard-headed among us the power of the electorate.

2. Those reporters should watch who they hang out with. Traveling with the enemy in an active war zone. What could go wrong?

3. That's a lazy press. They are free to investigate whatever they wish to any depth that they wish.

4. I don't care about the Saudis but Israel should be supported unconditionally.

5. I came to that conclusion because the establishment did everything in it's power to stop him but he still won.

6.Perhaps saying you blame others for your problems was a personal attack so I apologize. It's just that you sound like such a snowflake whiner that my assumption can be forgiven.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by oldercon1953
1. He's a half-ass socialist because he fits my definition of one.


What is your definition of a socialist?

2. "...built on day one." Nonsense. He never said that. You should watch the news. The walls been started. The easy part is getting Mexico to pay for it.


Trump's request for $1bn for construction was denied in the budget. Please, do tell, how will he make Mexico pay for it?

3. I have not read the E.O.s but he repealed all the regs. stopping the pipeline and another important one was stopping the Army Corp Of Engineers from enforcing a lot of overeaching regs. such as a prohibition from developing land which had vernal ponds on it. Some as small as a few feet wide.


That's two.

4. Trump never said he wanted to bring down the regime.


So ,despite the fact that China has repeatedly asked for both sides to calm down, rather than partially throwing Kim Jong-Un under the bus (whatever the :innocent::innocent::innocent::innocent: that even means), you think that he has achieved something vis-à-vis North Korea?

By all means elaborate.

Have you noticed how much criticism of Trump has waned. Even in your post, all you've done is ask me 4 questions you already knew the answers to just so you might find fault in my replies.


Where should I begin? Shall we discus his spectacular raid on AQAP in Yemen in which a Navy Seal died and he blame his generals for his death?

Or perhaps his U-turn on Syria? What happened to 'stay out of Syria', 'Assad is fighting ISIS', 'let Putin bomb ISIS' and 'let's bomb ISIS with Putin?'

Or his ban on individuals from six Muslim countries which to this day - more than 100 days into his circus act - continues to be blocked by federal judges?

Should I continue?

Ooops, almost forgot. Didn't he get us out of that stupid Paris Accord?


That stupid treaty on climate change dealing with greenhouse gases emissions mitigation? Yeah, who cares about that.... Climate change is a hoax by the Chinese, right?
Original post by oldercon1953
1. The U.S. is not a direct Democracy; the masses really are asses. Groups representing business interests SHOULD have a substantial impact on policy. Again, the last election should show even the most hard-headed among us the power of the electorate.


Forget substantial, they have absolute control over policy.

Nice 'free democracy'.

2. Those reporters should watch who they hang out with. Traveling with the enemy in an active war zone. What could go wrong?




Enemy? Active war zone? You don't seem to have a clue, do you?

3. That's a lazy press. They are free to investigate whatever they wish to any depth that they wish.


Journalists working for the mainstream media were not free to investigate 9/11 or Saddam's so-called 'weapons of mass destruction' from 2001 - 2003 - and anyone who did was fired from their position or smeared.

This is not a case of the press being lazy - it's the mainstream media being a mouthpiece for the government, controlled by the special interests who wanted the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

4. I don't care about the Saudis but Israel should be supported unconditionally.


Despite the fact that Israel is of zero strategic importance to the United States, costs the taxpayer billions, and gives it a bad reputation throughout the world?

As your Dear Leader would say, you're a smart cookie.

5. I came to that conclusion because the establishment did everything in it's power to stop him but he still won.


You seem to believe that the establishment fielded one candidate, when in actual fact they fielded three: Trump, Clinton and Johnson.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 10
Donald Trump is ignorant about history, geography, macroeconomics, and other cultures. He has neither an opinion about the state of the world, nor a vision for his country. He has never thought about these things, which are normally present in the mind of every important politician since college. He also seems to be extremely susceptible to flattery.

As a result, he is easily influenced by anybody who can present a rational argument. Hence why he said things that completely contradict his previous statements after Shinzo Abe, Xi Jinping or Mahmoud Abbas had met him. They perfectly knew that they could return him by telling him stories that he cannot check the veracity due to his insufficient knowledge, by promising "great deals that no other US President ever made before", etc.
Depends what you mean. They're more motivated by generic things like money and power, rather than ideology like Bannon, but that's only "moderating" from a particular perspective.

Frankly, I don't think Trump is much of an ideologue anyway. He's just a narcissist who cares about his own power and prestige. The hard right ideological clothes he's put on to get elected will only remain insofar as they continue to serve that goal, and he'll ditch them if they're wrecking things for him.

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