Jacob Rees-Mogg

Are you truly believe under a Corbyn government, which at the moment would be filled with people who can’t handle basic arithmetic? I understand the anger against Zero hour contracts... that I admit does not work. I can relate personally to the circumstances to the issues you mention, being Autistic and having grown up with a single mother, but you are delusional to believe that everything would be solved under Corbyn; a man who is inconsistent in his own views, a man who would single handedly deceive the youth whilst also pushing away his own party on said inconsistencies.
Do you believe that Corbyn would even deliver Brexit? (I’m not a fan of May’s handling but it’s at least something)
Do you honestly believe that we’d be better off under a Corbyn government, one that will certainly not fulfil many of its promises, and instead cause taxation for all to skyrocket as they desperately try to cover up the massive influx of borrowing required to deceive the public into supporting them?
In what ways would a Corbyn government bring the general populous a solid foundation? Reliance on the state shouldn’t need to be a resort and indeed under Corbyn, there is a potential that the reliance on the ‘Nanny State’ would increase. Do you honestly believe any industry would prosper under Corbyn? Frankly I think a Corbyn government would push away most industries.
Your last point is exactly why putting faith in a Corbyn government is insane. ‘Says we got your back’... Corbyn and many of the current shadow cabinet are idealists, whom all say astonishingly attractive things but in reality have no clue in how to cost it and to make it feasibly work. No they won’t fix the housing crisis, no they won’t save the NHS and no they certainly won’t reduce the National Debt. That’s not to say The conservative manifesto for the GE was god like, in fact it was awful, but at least under the Tories you know somethings will work. People always come out worse at the end of a labour government, no matter how much they ‘say’ it will get better. This is the ultimate downfall of the political left, a reliance on the state to fix literally everything whilst holding non existent freedom to the blind and inexperienced youth.
Hope is a buzzword to get people to vote for them at this point, and in reality means the exact opposite if they were to get in power.
Moral of the story: Don’t trust the Corbynites !

Ah such wisdom, you've not been taken in have you? Back to the nice Tory security blanket again, don't want those leftist subversives in.

The voice of patriotism and duty with their Saudi funded faith schools and arms deals(post Brexit trade promised land), being investigated by the UN for human rights abuse of the disabled. Oh and watch for the complete devastation of the NHS, millions using food banks(including the people who work in it, trying to help you), low productivity because of demoralization and inequality, impossibility of affordable housing, the most regionally unequal country ni the western world, the worst surveillance state with the least oversight 'Worse than Orwell' (UN privacy chief).

Don't worry though, we have patrician public schoolies who talk to people like laboratory specimens to run everything, and living in a deluded complacent fantasy world thinking we don't have a thing to learn from anyone else on earth, while we play out empire and world power fantasies with an entire intelligence apparatus and military conceived around serving America's needs, with a defence secretary that announced two years prior to our great reclamation of 'sovereignty' that we would never take military action independently of America again, and a vitriolic public debate over expensive nuclear weapons we could never use without the US's authorization...

I never have much faith people will ever wake up in this country and see beyond brainwashing.

Not that I'm cynical or anything......

Are you truly believe under a Corbyn government, which at the moment would be filled with people who can’t handle basic arithmetic? I understand the anger against Zero hour contracts... that I admit does not work. I can relate personally to the circumstances to the issues you mention, being Autistic and having grown up with a single mother, but you are delusional to believe that everything would be solved under Corbyn; a man who is inconsistent in his own views, a man who would single handedly deceive the youth whilst also pushing away his own party on said inconsistencies.
Do you believe that Corbyn would even deliver Brexit? (I’m not a fan of May’s handling but it’s at least something)
Do you honestly believe that we’d be better off under a Corbyn government, one that will certainly not fulfil many of its promises, and instead cause taxation for all to skyrocket as they desperately try to cover up the massive influx of borrowing required to deceive the public into supporting them?
In what ways would a Corbyn government bring the general populous a solid foundation? Reliance on the state shouldn’t need to be a resort and indeed under Corbyn, there is a potential that the reliance on the ‘Nanny State’ would increase. Do you honestly believe any industry would prosper under Corbyn? Frankly I think a Corbyn government would push away most industries.
Your last point is exactly why putting faith in a Corbyn government is insane. ‘Says we got your back’... Corbyn and many of the current shadow cabinet are idealists, whom all say astonishingly attractive things but in reality have no clue in how to cost it and to make it feasibly work. No they won’t fix the housing crisis, no they won’t save the NHS and no they certainly won’t reduce the National Debt. That’s not to say The conservative manifesto for the GE was god like, in fact it was awful, but at least under the Tories you know somethings will work. People always come out worse at the end of a labour government, no matter how much they ‘say’ it will get better. This is the ultimate downfall of the political left, a reliance on the state to fix literally everything whilst holding non existent freedom to the blind and inexperienced youth.
Hope is a buzzword to get people to vote for them at this point, and in reality means the exact opposite if they were to get in power.
Moral of the story: Don’t trust the Corbynites !

You're just a typical English Tory voter who is always taken in by the same narrative- they can never produce substantive arguments about Tories economic credibility or how it would benefit them, they just swallow the narrative of corporate media.

The policies are moderate left compared with most of continental Europe, they are social democratic policies, and the corporation tax proposed by McDonnell(who has worked with some of the best economists in the world) was lower than any G7 country and lower tan(or the same as)Thatcher.

The problem with your political brethren is that the left is never considered. even based on objective facts, the same trickle down narrative is swallowed, and that arguments about tax being higher, even when corporation tax has gone down extremely low and would not be raised to a level that was previously considered too much.

More concisely, you vote according to tribe, emotion, and a typically anti-left,
instictively conservative English mentality rather than on an objective informed opinion that also considers other parts of the world.

If that sounds condescending, good.

I'm pretty much sick of the soulless, Thatcherite Tory rump of gen X/boomers sitting on top of this country and wrecking it with their self-satisfied clueless dogma and their cynicism.

Try voting with information, compassion and higher thought rather than knee-jerk dogma and hatred. You might feel good about yourself

Funny how responses on a forum can effect you. Your posts on this thread for instance have been vomit-inducing. A Corbyn administration would be dreadful. Nonsense policies being spouted, a weakness to have a clear Brexit strategy and instead opting for a 'to be confirmed' approach and a weak cabinet. We'd have economic decline and falling living standards.

We already have falling living standards thanks to this laughing stock of a government.
Not to mention the rank hypocrisy of your other points like 'a clear Brexit strategy' lol

I agree that this Government has gone about many issues badly, but it still appears a more attractive alternative to a Corbyn administration.

Also, what do you mean by hypocrisy?

That is putting it overly politely.
Might one ask why you think a Corbyn government would be so heinously bad though? I should point out I am neither a Labour supporter nor one of these Corbyistas but i have yet to hear a good rebuttal for him. The general line peddled by torys seems to only be 'he'll be a disaster' and 'he's a socialist' as if these are inherent reasons he would fail as a leader.

The implication that the current government, as opposed to Labour, has a clear Brexit strategy. It is a well agreed upon fact the government has no real strategy... actually I will clarify that, they have dozens of strategy's from every tom, **** and harry. Whether or not Brexit could be a success is a debatable point but this government have royally rogered the country with their half baked Brexit 'strategy'.

Might one ask why you think a Corbyn government would be so heinously bad though?

I should point out I am neither a Labour supporter nor one of these Corbyistas but i have yet to hear a good rebuttal for him. The general line peddled by torys seems to only be 'he'll be a disaster' and 'he's a socialist' as if these are inherent reasons he would fail as a leader.

The implication that the current government, as opposed to Labour, has a clear Brexit strategy. It is a well agreed upon fact the government has no real strategy... actually I will clarify that, they have dozens of strategy's from every tom, **** and harry. Whether or not Brexit could be a success is a debatable point but this government have royally rogered the country with their half baked Brexit 'strategy'.

I think it would be awful for the country. If you look at anywhere socialism has been implemented the economy has done poorly. Labour talk about a 'hard tory brexit' costing jobs, but if you look at the facts, the worst possible brexit would be on WTO terms, costing businesses about £8bn in tarriffs annually. Labour plans to get £60bn more from businesses in tax.

If he's doing that it would be better to be totally protectionist, since we would retain some of the domestic market. Under Corbyn's plans (not just tax but higher wages, more workers rights) many businesses will have to close or scale down or move abroad.

On foreign policy we all know he would never conceivably use our military (the total opposite to Blair who would see it as the only option to be used constantly), it means we are effectively disarmed.

Christ that post was a hard read; now lets deconstruct:

“Higher thought” is just holier than thou nonsense.

“Compassion and information” - pretty much oxymoronic, facts are almost always in direct contrast to the hippie leftist feelings based approach to politics.

Ironic that you moan at him for “swallowing the narrative of the corporate media” when you are literally swallowing the narrative of the old Labour Leninists like McDonnell, Corbyn, Abbott, Galloway and Livingstone as well as the gutter tier press that is the indie and the guardian; along with social media fake news shared from the Canary.

McDonnell’s Corp tax proposals are higher than those currently being implemented by Trump’s America, and the comparison with Thatcher is fallacious, appropriate Corp tax rates 30 years ago aren’t appropriate now because business models are always changing.

The relatively high rates of tax evasion and avoidance is the primary indicator that we are above the equilibrium rate of tax for maximum revenue, raising taxes further simply exacerbates this problem. Trickle down is not a serious phrase used by any mainstream Austrian or Chicago school economists, it is a pejorative created by a leftist comedian, please try harder with your economic critiques.

“Objective informed opinions” don’t exist, yet another doublethink(tm) oxymoron.

You are the typical emotional millennial hipster left corbynite who puts about as much thought into their policy positions as they do into their haircuts, it is ironic that you call Count a “typical anti-left English conservative”.

Terrible choice for PM. Tax dodger, anti abortion but doesn't mind making a mint from selling the tablets. Brexit nutcase (anyone who thinks no deal is better than a bad deal automatically has **** for brains).

It is worth pointing out that whilst Corbyn might have socialist credentials it is a brave leap of logic to think he would drag the entire country down that path.
I feel obliged to point out that falling onto WTO terms would be catastrophic and would put us on a par with countries like Cuba and Venezuela.

Might one ask what is inherently bad about higher wages and workers rights?

I would point out that not using the military in no way equates to being 'disarmed'. Not to mention the previous governments policies of waging illegal wars around the world have done little but cost the tax payer billions of pounds and painted a bulls eye on the UK for terrorists.

Take for instance his policy on Nuclear Weapons, if anything it is more beneficial for the country. The number of weapons we have is paltry and considering who theyre aimed at are not so much a deterrence but a giant beacon for any first or second strike to obliterate Britain.

Well, let's judge by their election manifesto and assume they would implement that. It's very very left wing, and we know Corbyn's proud history of being socialist and support of article 4. You do know both Cuba and Venezuela are socialist? Maybe that's a bigger reason...

Absolutely nothing, I fully support a decent minimum wage and basic rights, but it's better for these to be dictated by free markets to ensure affordable to business (which is why I can't see how Corbyn supports saturating the labour market with free movement when that means trade unions have no power). We shouldn't go to far in my opinion; worker's rights simply means something the company must provide/abide by, not that workers deserve it.

Are you incapable of following basic arguments? If we take off the table the possibility of using the military we lose it's deterrence. I would agree our recent prime minister's fantasicism about overthrowing regimes in Iraq, Libya and Syria was madness, but that doesn't mean there aren't good uses, like upholding liberty and international law in the first gulf war, falklands or Sierra Leone.

But his policy is the same as the government's: to renew Trident and work towards multilateral disarmament. So your point makes no sense...

My point was actually there are only 8 countries who trade on WTO rules with the EU and those are two of them.
At any rate i find it hard to believe he would be able to move any such policy through government

Artical 4 the prohibition of torture? whats wrong with supporting that?

Might I ask how the 'free market' would treat workers fairly? I mean aside from the free market being a contradiction in terms

Oh don't be so ridiculous our military isn't a detterant to anybody these days. Any military it could feasibly be used to defend against would squash the UK like a bug, this isnt just me being rude it is a cast iron fact. Our military cannot really be used unilaterally anyway, it was defanged years ago, it can only really be used in conjunction with others with makes its value somewhat dubious for acting in our interests.

Okay so you name a couple of small scale conflicts where it nominally did good [aside from the fact we acted only in our self interest in the Gulf, not out of any abject good will]. Lets list a few of the more dubious and illegal uses of it. Training terrorists, destablising and toppling regimes, waging numerous illegal wars [which whilst you mentioned some, you simply seem to disregard them flippantly as a couple of bad apples].
Your assertion that its used to uphold international law, im afraid, is farsical. We have helped burn down the Middle East through illegal wars. Not to mention the somewhat dubious bombing of Belgrade.

His partys policy and his personal view are two separate things, i was describing the latter, not the former.
I would also point out that what you just said is oxymoronic. You cant replace your nuclear delivery systems whilst working towards the abolition of them. Not to mention we just upgraded all of the warheads making their lethality increase 3 fold.

Sorry, that's incorrect. There are 24 countries who trade with the EU on WTO terms, including the USA, Russia, China, Brazil, Australia... And many more countries have not much better deals. On leaving we could make great deals with these and more, reducing costs of food and clothing and stimulating trade with the major world economies.

You clearly aren't into politics much, that's fine, most people aren't but please don't try to pretend you know everything. I was talking about clause 4 of the Labour constitution, which Corbyn was one of the biggest advocates for keeping, as it defined the party as 'socialist'.

Ok, let's assume we have managed migration again. Let's say you are running a business and pay only the minimum wage, minimum holidays etc. Your workers will decide to leave and work for a competitor who offers them a more competitive deal, if you want to gain enough workers you will need to match that. However, because it's business this won't go to such an extent that your business becomes unprofitable.

I agree, our military has been run down and could barely operate alone (we have fewer tanks than neutral switzerland, the smallest army since Napolean times and are scrapping our only anti-ship missiles). However as part of a coalition or NATO we may have to go to war and it's certainly capable and in some areas world-class. Isn't that an argument to build it up again rather than give up on it?

Well I believe defending nation states who want to be independent is a good use, whether that's Kuwait, Saudi Arabia or Kosovo. Regime change or supporting rebel groups you don't understand is wrong, I agree.

Maybe you should try telling the Labour Party that. I was talking about policy, since that was the word you used.

No it isn't. Only 8 countries trade on WTO rules alone, the countries you mentioned all may trade with Europe on WTO rules in some sectors but not unilaterally.

Assuming we'll have cheaper food is dubious. When the pound falls further food prices will continue to pinch more.

Seeing as you didn't specify clause 4 of what, its your bad not mine.

I don't disagree with what you say persay but i'm much more for having a small force for defence, not offence. Not for any overt moral reasons but simply because its a waste of money and serves us no tangible benefits. Name a single war in recent history which has benefited us? America reaped the rewards in '03, Russia won Syria and Libya blew up in our faces and is going to cost us for years. The less said about Afghanistan the better to be honest.

At any rate you're ignoring the simple fact there is no money for a grand rearmament program so it is a moot point.

Aside from the fact we only do that when it is in our interest. I.E. we couldnt care less about the right to self determination or beating up the big guy to defend the small one lest we would be invading states left and right, we wouldnt condemn the russians for Crimea, Abhkazia, Transnistria and South Ossetia.

Not to mention we have sold the Kurds down the river and prop up a state guilty of the most heinous human rights abuses - Israel. Plus Saudi etc.