69 year old man identifies as a 49 year old man

If someone blatantly looks like a man like Danielle Muscato or Caitlyn Jenner, you're saying it is our job to ignore what we see, and pander to these people's demands? No thanks. I do not support (gender) identity politics, so I will not call a blatant male, she. If someone actually makes an effort and is respectful and doesn't demand, that is an entirely different story. But there is no 'right' in the world, to choose pronouns - by definition the term "my pronouns" is an oxymoron. It is how people speak about you in the third person. They are not yours. TRAs and liberals in general need to stop pretending everything they want, is a 'right'. It's not. It makes you look like really pathetic, spoilt children.

And what is next, either you are saying that we do this because they have a medical condition, in which case the answer is again, no, others should not have to be part of the treatment of a medical condition, or you say the reason is because they want us to - in which case I ask you why should someone not say "my pronouns are 'your majesty'"? Where would it stop. So again, no.

There was a recent case by a student whose professor refused to call by preferred pronoun, but offered to use the new name. Student didn't want that - why? Because student wanted professor to submit and validate their identity.

Never said I had a problem with calling them by the name they want, people get nicknames that are different from their actual names all the time. What I will not do is accept that they are the gender they claim to be. It is not offensive (not like calling someone by a racist name) its a fact, and its childish on their part that they cant deal with it.

You don't have to be a medical professional to know that its a delusion, It ma be stronger in some people than others but its still a delusion. If I were to go into work tomorrow and say I am the most qualified person to do the job and that I should be treated as the authority figure, people would not comply and my standing in the workplace would be diminished, why cant they just acknowledge I am more qualified than I am, it would not hurt to do so would it?

I feel the reason homosexuality was accepted is because you can't tell if a person is a homosexual, and people realised that who they choose to be attracted to is none of their business as long as they don't have to see it. Trans on the other hand is very hard to accept as you are being asked to disqualify what you are seeing with your own eyes, and pretend something because the other person tells you to.

Comparing the start of the argument about modern gender dysphoria with that of age dysphoria is like for like. Gender dysphoria became a thing due to the political push done across Western nations. In many non-Western nations, there is no such acceptance of transpeople. Transpeople are still classed as those with mental illnesses or weirdos. That is similar claims about those currently with age dysphoria.

The medical argument, in your argument, comes from some time of debate (and agreement) between medical scientists and social scientists.

That sums it up pretty well, yes - how they look has no bearing on the effort it takes you to be decent and respectful towards them. It takes you no effort whatsoever, and to do otherwise is upsetting towards people, so I don't see any benefit to not doing it. This isn't about demanding respect for someone's pronouns, no one here is doing that; I'm simply pointing out that it's a very basic level of respect to do so.

Frankly I don't see how using a preferred pronoun is being part of the "treatment"; you're not being asked to administer medication, you're being asked to respect what they'd like to be called. I'm sure if someone got married and changed their surname you'd use their new one - it's the exact same level of effort.

They didn't want that because it wasn't acknowledging their gender. I assume it would bother you on some level if people started using female pronouns towards you, even if they continued to use your name?

Humans cannot change sex. There is no "medical evidence" in that sense. The medical profession acknowledges that some people feel like they are of the opposite gender - but remove gender stereotypes and what are you left with? Nothing. Nothing but biology. 80% of adult male transitioners keep their penis - they don't actually have dysphoria. They have AGP. That is why they need to lobby to put kids on blockers and then on HRT and SRS - in order to validate their own existence as 'trans'.

There are undoubtedly people who do have dysphoria, but that does not actually mean humans can change sex. That notion is absolutely ridiculous. Also, a body is not 'wrong'. This is nothing but a bulimic who thinks she is fat.

Next, when transexual became transgender, the whole thing became a joke. To most TRAs, you do not need to be dysphoric to be 'trans'. Enough said. And funnily enough, it is primarily older transsexuals with dysphoria that are the ones that speak out against the TRA lobby, and subsequently get called 'truscum'. Because they actually recognize that they don't change sex, they just want to live like the opposite sex (as best as possible). Not go around pretending they actually are and then make everyone else announce they are and submit to identity politics. And many of the women who are now called terfs used to support these transsexuals, and only swung around when transgender came along and started making demands and abusing women for not submitting. TRA is now nothing but a form of MRA.

Lets face the facts here, gender dysphoria is am illness that affect a very small number of people

everyone shouldn't be forced to "respect" them by buying into their delusions.

It is very childish for them to expect anything different and to make a scene if someone doesn't disregard everything they are seeing with their eyes.

What you are basically saying is that I can demand people call me "your majesty", but only if I pretend that my feelings would be hurt if they didn't.

I'm not asking you to accept it though - whilst I personally believe you should, you're entitled to your own views. Using someone's pronouns outwardly doesn't man you have to accept it inwardly.

Here's the thing though -you actually do have to be in a medical profession to have any substance to the notion of it being a delusion; current medical opinion contradicts you, and until you can prove otherwise that statement is simply incorrect. Your proposed scenario is not remotwely comparable, and I think you know that.

It being seemingly harder to accept doesn't mean you shouldn't be making the effort, however.

Personally I don't see why the numbers are relevant - and if anything, the fewer numbers actually support the opposite; you're unlikely to meet many transgender people on that basis, and so the effort to use pronouns drops from minimal to negligible. There's no real reason not to on that basis.

Equally I think it's more childish not to give someone that level of respect when it costs you nothing to, and is upsetting to them if you don't. In terms of the 'your majesty' point, no, I am not saying that. Being transgender is medically recognised, and coming out as trans/starting living as another gender is an incredibly difficult process. You deciding you want to be addressed as royalty is not even slightly similar.

You also failed to address this point "They didn't want that because it wasn't acknowledging their gender. I assume it would bother you on some level if people started using female pronouns towards you, even if they continued to use your name?"

And until such time that happens, or it's more widespread, it is not like for like. It's also worth noting that the man isn't saying he believes or feels he is 20 years younger, but is instead essentially saying "well people can change gender so I kind of fancy changing my age", which again, isn't an equal comparison.

It is an equal comparison. The man stated that he feels 20 years younger and wanted to change his age to reflect that. He got backlash and then argued against the discrimination because people could change their gender, but he was unable to change his age.

All widespread events started from somone. The first transgender person got so much flak for coming out to speak about their experience. Now it is widespread. This person may be the same, as he is possibly the first transage advocate and is receiving backlash.

Exactly, the fact is the guy is being ridiculed because some very cynical people think it's an attack against trans people.

I get a lot of people thought trans people were mocking gays when it first became apparent.

LOL, just got a PM from TSR saying I have a warning for saying trans people have mental issues.

This is offensive as they are implying having a mental problem is a negative thing.

For me, I try not launch personal attacks on others. I try to debate the subject rather than the people.

I was debating the subject, and the mental problems of trans people is very much relevant to the debate.

people find it offensive because mental problem still has a stigma associated with it that makes it a negative thing.

wow the "impartial" TSR mods are really exercising their unbiased judgement on this issue. How are these clowns even made mods. they should be moderating hate speech.

where exactly have I invited violence against trans people on this thread? In fact all I said is that it's OK if some people buy into their mental illness, not everyone has to be forced to.

I'd be very disappointed if TSR mods consider mental problems a perjorative term. that's a really backwards attitude

Please leave it alone. There is no need to get banned. We have debated the case and should move on.

That sums it up pretty well, yes - how they look has no bearing on the effort it takes you to be decent and respectful towards them. It takes you no effort whatsoever, and to do otherwise is upsetting towards people, so I don't see any benefit to not doing it. This isn't about demanding respect for someone's pronouns, no one here is doing that; I'm simply pointing out that it's a very basic level of respect to do so.

Frankly I don't see how using a preferred pronoun is being part of the "treatment"; you're not being asked to administer medication, you're being asked to respect what they'd like to be called. I'm sure if someone got married and changed their surname you'd use their new one - it's the exact same level of effort.

They didn't want that because it wasn't acknowledging their gender. I assume it would bother you on some level if people started using female pronouns towards you, even if they continued to use your name?

That's not actually wholly relevant here; the argument is whether people can be transgender, which it's medically supported that they can. It's absolutely nothing to do with gender stereotypes, and keeping a penis doesn't mean they don't have dysphoria, there are plenty of other reasons why they may make that decision.

Again, the argument in your last paragraph still isn't about whether you can change sex - using someone's preferred name and pronouns isn't necessarily agreeing with the notion of changing sex; even if they are simply living as the opposite sex as you believe, calling them by pronouns relating to that allows them to do so in a more comfortable way.