Tory Mp, Mark Field, facing calls to be sacked after grabbing protestor by neck. Watch

ThomH97
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(Original post by the beer)
I've seen the video, trespass is trespass, are you not able to explain the point you are trying to make? Maybe you can help me see past my bias.
The point I was making that you jumped on was that she was more than merely 'walking past someone'. Some of the more significant details include that she was part of a larger group, that that group was aggressive and disruptive, that the event was private, that she was targeting an individual, that that individual was a prominent politician, and we have an environment where some people think it's okay to chuck food items or worse at politicians.

You're looking for an excuse to manhandle your typical Tory canvassers, but there isn't a legitimate one here.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by 999tigger)
This is unreasonable.

If you are talking about the milkshake then that is a battery and there shouldnt be any dispute about that.

A battery is committed when a person intentionally or recklessly applies unlawful force to another.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidanc...rging-standard

You cant throw things at other people. I think there is a bit of a tradition with politicians being egged.

I think the question with the MP is whether there was unlawful force , which is for a judge and jury to decide.

I think its perfectly reasonable if you see someone rushing at a secure private meeting with one of the senior ministers of state present that you have to make a judgement call as to whether they pose a risk, they could have a knife or a bomb. If thats what he thought then he is perfectly entitled to prevent her. She had no reason to be there and was a potential threat.

He didnt punch her he just manhandled her and made sure she didnt get to the Chancellor.
I dont think he should be removed from office. He has apologised, but she is the one that broke into a place where there would have been armed officers. Lets see whether the police decide to prosecute and a jury decides to convict.
There's a tradition of politicians getting egged, and milkshaking is just a variant on that. It's a misdemeanor yes, but the disparity of reaction between that, which is, let's be honest, pretty much harmless; and an MP grabbing someone who clearly wasn't a threat and slamming them into a pillar, is remarkable. The latter is evidently more serious and should be treated as such.
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ChaoticButterfly
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A good rule of thumb to follow is would such behaviour warrant disciplinary procedures in a normal work place.
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the beer
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(Original post by ThomH97)
The point I was making that you jumped on was that she was more than merely 'walking past someone'. Some of the more significant details include that she was part of a larger group, that that group was aggressive and disruptive, that the event was private, that she was targeting an individual, that that individual was a prominent politician, and we have an environment where some people think it's okay to chuck food items or worse at politicians.

You're looking for an excuse to manhandle your typical Tory canvassers, but there isn't a legitimate one here.
Tory canvassers go round in groups and have been extremely rude and aggressive towards me in the past, my house is private property, I'm not looking for an excuse, I'm sure i'd never lose my temper and act like Mark Field, i'm just not seeing a whole lot of difference.
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ThomH97
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
There's a tradition of politicians getting egged, and milkshaking is just a variant on that. It's a misdemeanor yes, but the disparity of reaction between that, which is, let's be honest, pretty much harmless;
I would not like to be egged or milkshaked. Should I just accept it because it's 'pretty much harmless'?
and an MP grabbing someone who clearly wasn't a threat and slamming them into a pillar, is remarkable. The latter is evidently more serious and should be treated as such.
Clearly not a threat? How do you judge that? She had a shiny silver thing in one hand (which the video can later show is a phone), and a bag with unknown contents in the other.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
There's a tradition of politicians getting egged, and milkshaking is just a variant on that. It's a misdemeanor yes, but the disparity of reaction between that, which is, let's be honest, pretty much harmless; and an MP grabbing someone who clearly wasn't a threat and slamming them into a pillar, is remarkable. The latter is evidently more serious and should be treated as such.
I have already pointed that out, but egging and throwing things at people without consent is illegal. People get prosecuted for it.

I dont accept they clearly werent a threat, she shouldnt have been there and she shouldnt have been moving towards the chancellor. If it had been the Queen they would have leaped on her or worse. I think he was entitled to stop her progress and he made sure it happened. Was he excessive? I dont think so. You say slamming them into a pillar, but thats not what i see and you are being dramatic.

Throwing projectiles at people is clearly unlawful.

Preventing someone from disrupting or worse in a secure meeting where there are ministers of state is not comparable and it will be up to the police, cps and courts to decide if his actions were unlawful. If it wasnt unlawful then its clearly not as serious as thowing projectiles at people. I dont think he should be punished at all. He has apologised.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
So your opinion is that peaceful political protest should be met with neck grabs and body slams?

Would it be more convenient for the folks thinking this kind of thing is OK to simply hand over to Fascism right away, rather than waste time on the middle bit with swaggering storm troopers and street battles?
Was she a trespasser? Yes

Is it right to evict trespassers using reasonable force? Yes

Was that reasonable force? Well, the question is would she have left immediately if less force was used? I think the answer to that is clearly "no" from her actions and those of the other trespassers. Therefore the force was reasonable.
Last edited by nulli tertius; 3 weeks ago
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ThomH97
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(Original post by the beer)
Tory canvassers go round in groups and have been extremely rude and aggressive towards me in the past, my house is private property, I'm not looking for an excuse, I'm sure i'd never lose my temper and act like Mark Field, i'm just not seeing a whole lot of difference.
That is surprising to hear since canvassers will typically want to win you round rather than wind you up.

It didn't look to me like Field lost his temper. He probably was annoyed with the interruptions, and pleased he managed to stop one from achieving her goal (although this publicity has gone against him overall). But he didn't attack her, his aim was clearly to stop her from attacking Hammond and get her out ASAP.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by the beer)
Tory canvassers go round in groups and have been extremely rude and aggressive towards me in the past, my house is private property, I'm not looking for an excuse, I'm sure i'd never lose my temper and act like Mark Field, i'm just not seeing a whole lot of difference.
Unless you take steps to prohibit callers or particular types of caller "no canvassers", you are deemed to invite callers onto your property to approach your front door. As soon as you tell someone to go away, they should immediately leave. If they don't and I would be surprised if political canvassers don't, then you can use reasonable force to eject them.
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the bear
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i don't understand how 40 of these harridans were able to stroll into such an important event ?
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
There's a tradition of politicians getting egged, and milkshaking is just a variant on that. It's a misdemeanor yes, but the disparity of reaction between that, which is, let's be honest, pretty much harmless; and an MP grabbing someone who clearly wasn't a threat and slamming them into a pillar, is remarkable. The latter is evidently more serious and should be treated as such.
Being egged or having a substance thrown over you isn’t harmless.
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Snufkin
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Was she a trespasser? Yes

Is it right to evict trespassers using reasonable force? Yes

Was that reasonable force? Well, the question is would she have left immediately if less force was used? I think the answer to that is clearly "no" from her actions and those of the other trespassers. Therefore the force was reasonable.
I'm curious why the general opinion of the Legal Twittersphere takes a very different view. In fact, I can't find anything online that mentions trespass re Mark Field.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by the bear)
i don't understand how 40 of these harridans were able to stroll into such an important event ?
Exactly! Nail on the head, the security is the issue.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Snufkin)
I'm curious why the general opinion of the Legal Twittersphere takes a very different view. In fact, I can't find anything online that mentions trespass re Mark Field.
This starts in the right direction but rather loses it by digressing into the amount of force which is appropriate in the case of a domesic dwelling (I am going to skate over the fact that arguably the Mansion House is a dwelling as it is the Lord Mayor's official residence).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48717002

A key point I didn't mention is who decides it is trespass and that the trespassers should be removed? Those aren't Mark Field's decisions to make. On this occasion those questions could be answered unambiguously. That person was the Lord Mayor and he was visibly seeking the removal of the persons. He could have invited them to stay. That was in his gift and if he had done so, Field's actions would undoubtedly have been an assault.

Field of course is raising the flag that he was apprehending violence and acting to prevent that. His actions seem somewhat implausible for that.
Last edited by nulli tertius; 3 weeks ago
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Was she a trespasser? Yes

Is it right to evict trespassers using reasonable force? Yes

Was that reasonable force? Well, the question is would she have left immediately if less force was used? I think the answer to that is clearly "no" from her actions and those of the other trespassers. Therefore the force was reasonable.
Actually the other protesters did leave in short order when challenged by security on the other side of the hall. The Mark Field incident (neckgate?) took place before security had approached her. Therefore she wasn't given chance and no demand to leave - as we can all see, he simply leapt at her, grabbed her round the throat and then painfully held her behind her neck as he frogmarched her.

We now hear that she isn't pressing charges, which is a shame.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Actually the other protesters did leave in short order when challenged by security on the other side of the hall. The Mark Field incident (neckgate?) took place before security had approached her. Therefore she wasn't given chance and no demand to leave - as we can all see, he simply leapt at her, grabbed her round the throat and then painfully held her behind her neck as he frogmarched her.

We now hear that she isn't pressing charges, which is a shame.
Tomorrow’s chip wrapper I’m afraid.

Have you heard Labour’s (and the Lib Dem’s and the SNP’s and the Monster Raving Loonies’) slogan for the next general election:-

“You just don’t care for anything because you’re spoilt. You have no care for money or anything”

Catchy isn’t it.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Tomorrow’s chip wrapper I’m afraid.

Have you heard Labour’s (and the Lib Dem’s and the SNP’s and the Monster Raving Loonies’) slogan for the next general election:-

“You just don’t care for anything because you’re spoilt. You have no care for money or anything”

Catchy isn’t it.
And so true. :teehee:
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honeykates
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she was right in that it was a peaceful protest... however she was tresspassing. he should have called police/security, not gotten involved himself. same if it was a female mp + male protester.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Actually the other protesters did leave in short order when challenged by security on the other side of the hall. The Mark Field incident (neckgate?) took place before security had approached her. Therefore she wasn't given chance and no demand to leave - as we can all see, he simply leapt at her, grabbed her round the throat and then painfully held her behind her neck as he frogmarched her.

We now hear that she isn't pressing charges, which is a shame.
I was under the impression that wouldn’t be an option under U.K law anyway. Tagging CatusStarbright who will know more about this than me.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by honeykates)
she was right in that it was a peaceful protest... however she was tresspassing. he should have called police/security, not gotten involved himself. same if it was a female mp + male protester.
Why shouldn’t he have got involved? What extra powers does a security possess that he didn’t?
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