Why do the UK&#x27;s education systems seem abysmal compared to Asia&#x27;s in the rankings?

Original post by Palmyra

Chinese/Korean parents instil an ethos of hard work and academic discipline into their kids from a young age. They also take a direct and strong role in their education. English parents don't really give a **** about their kids' education to anywhere near the same extent.

That's a broad generalisation, so let me make a broad counter one... Most Europeans don't force their kids to emphasize school unless they have a natural inkling for it and are naturally gifted.

Whereas Asian kids are often forced to do well.....even if they are not so brilliant.

Reply 42

username1539513

That being said our universities are some of the best globally so we can’t be doing all that bad where it matters

Reply 43

Original post by Tolgarda

Success has no one definition. In this context, I am defining success that way. Of course you can still have your version of success without going to university, and university is definitely not the be-all and end-all. However, by 'successful', I meant alumni that had gone to good universities and got professions in lucrative and/or respected fields.

So someone can start a business, become a millionaire have a happy and lovely family but not be successful because they didn't attend university? You haven't denied this so far...

Reply 44

That sounds like broader socioeconomic issues, the poorer asian nations don't do well either,

Malaysian, Thailand.

It's really only the superdeveloped Japan and Korea, Singapore. (Singapore has de facto priced out stupid people in it's city state).

Reply 45

username4406682

19

We don't put children in cram schools at 5.

Reply 46

Tolgash

OP

Original post by 04MR17

So someone can start a business, become a millionaire have a happy and lovely family but not be successful because they didn't attend university? You haven't denied this so far...

Yes, they would be successful.

Success has no one definition. By describing the alumni as 'successful', I was talking about their universities and professions. That definition doesn't encompass every type of success though.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 47

Original post by Tolgarda

Kids have to be resilient. The Chinese kids from Mainland China would probably laugh about how generally pathetic our 'perseverance' is. Always complaining about hard exams and the like.

Mental health seems like a good defence against ANY criticism and comparison to the superior East Asian education systems. Hmm...

Ever wonder why East Asians are only ever CEO's in their countries of birth?!?

That exact reason, they get all the technical skills go off somewhere socially backward with their customs and saving face.

While the more masculine relaxed cultures rule the business world with slightly lower IQs and skills but more ability to lead.

Reply 48

username1539513

Original post by Realitysreflexx

That sounds like broader socioeconomic issues, the poorer asian nations don't do well either,

Malaysian, Thailand.

It's really only the superdeveloped Japan and Korea, Singapore. (Singapore has de facto priced out stupid people in it's city state).

I agree that poverty has its consequences, but if you compare the attitude of a poor Chinese family towards education and the attitude of a poor British family towards education there are massive differences. The poor Chinese family will do anything to get their son/ daughter in a good university. I had a Chinese friend at my first university whose parents were shouldering most of the debt and fees required for him to come study in England so I think there’s a definite attitude difference

Reply 49

Original post by Tolgarda

Why not? When you are competing for jobs, is that not a competition? Better to prepare for the real world.

I've also listened to lower crime rates. Sounds nice.

Job competition is rarely internationally conpetitive, only at very very high level. UK education competition usually compares every student nationally on that syllabus, and it's pretty rare to have a recruitment process like that.

And what exactly do lower crime rates have to do with Education systems?

Reply 50

They also pay farless taxes, whereas we get taxed to the death for our "access to university". And the fact the Chinese do in droves come over here to study is why?

Likely because they couldn't make it into one of the 10 or so Chinese universities even qualified/comparable degrees offered in order for them to work abroad or get a master's in Europe.

There's so many more nuances to this then just "hardworking", or sacrifice. We sacrifice huge amounts of our income as Europeans to subsidise education to make it accessible for all.

Reply 51

gjd800

20

I'd sooner have my littleuns happy than a nervous wreck like half the Chinese kids I've taught. Couldn't give a shite about international rankings, my interests are localised, i.e. my family.

Reply 52

Original post by Tolgarda

Yes, [a rich person who didn't attend uni] would be successful.

Original post by Tolgarda

[Success is defined as] studying at good universities

Make your mind up.

Reply 53

Tolgash

OP

Original post by 04MR17

Job competition is rarely internationally conpetitive, only at very very high level. UK education competition usually compares every student nationally on that syllabus, and it's pretty rare to have a recruitment process like that.

When you apply for any job, you are competing against others. It is wise to prepare yourself for this early ob because your competitors likely won't show you much mercy.

Original post by 04MR17

And what exactly do lower crime rates have to do with Education systems?

What do suicide rates have to do with education systems?

If a society is more educated, it is likely to have more employment. That already means less need to engage if theft. I also think lower inequality can be established from having more people employed, helping reduce transgressions like knife crime.

Reply 54

Tolgash

OP

Original post by 04MR17

Make your mind up.

The first of the two options. A person that didn't attend university but is rich can still be defined as successful.

My initial reply wasn't very clear in that this definition was limited to this context, like other definitions of success.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 55

username1539513

Original post by Realitysreflexx

They also pay farless taxes, whereas we get taxed to the death for our "access to university". And the fact the Chinese do in droves come over here to study is why?

Likely because they couldn't make it into one of the 10 or so Chinese universities even qualified/comparable degrees offered in order for them to work abroad or get a master's in Europe.

There's so many more nuances to this then just "hardworking", or sacrifice. We sacrifice huge amounts of our income as Europeans to subsidise education to make it accessible for all.

I don’t recall making a statement about taxes either one way or another? We pay so many taxes because we have a very good public healthcare system, amongst other things.

The fact of the matter is British people have a relatively poor attitude torwards education because they know if that they don’t succeed they can always fall back on the welfare system. Chinese people seem to lack this atttitude and are hard working.

I will grant you that our universities (some of them) are better though; hence why they attract students from all over the world.

Reply 56

Original post by Tolgarda

What do suicide rates have to do with education systems?

If a society is more educated, it is likely to have more employment. That already means less need to engage in theft. I also think lower inequality can be established from having more people employed, helping reduce transgressions like knife crime.

Suicide is far more common for young people than anyone else. Systems of evaluation in schools, along with relaxed attitude to bullying and the poor engineering of social environments in schools lead to individuals evaluating their self worth - especially after the education system breeds you to compare yourself to others. If suicide rates were higher among elderly people, education wouldn't be as influential; however, given that it's the biggest killer of young people, schooling (logically) has to be important to it.

That's due to the state of the economy, not education systems. You can have extremely well qualified people but without a good enough economy they could all be unemployed.

Reply 57

But that's your experience in a silo, there are plently lf places in England and Europe where people take their kids educations extremely seriously. Your experience in some deprived county in forgotten Northern england isn't system reflective.

What about all the kids who are sent to fee paying schools... Or families who move to get closer to better sixth forms.

These scores also don't take into account all the Chinese kids who never go to school. Ever.

This has more to do with socioeconomic class than simply them working harder.

All kids are forced to school for 16 years in the UK and Europe some even longer.

This is simply not the case everywhere globally.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 58

Original post by Tolgarda

The first of the two options. A person that didn't attend university but is rich can still be defined as successful.

My initial reply wasn't very clear in that this definition was limited to this context, like other definitions of success.

Glad that you're taking your words back, even if it is in this very convoluted manner.

Reply 59