doing philosophy and theology- not sure where it leads

i am set to do philosophy/theology at durham.
i have heard terrible things about it in terms of job prospects
"a degree in starbucks"
"useless"
"little more than a weird holiday"
"pathetic"
i have heard this so so much- that despite me being interested/good at it, and having no idea what career i want, it seems like an expensive waste of time, and i dont know what to do?

is it even worth doing uni this year, or ditching it, taking a year out, and applying for something that can get me a job.

as far as i see- at best. i have to do either a law conversion/loads of post grads to get a decently paid job, at worst- a career killer
i am so angry at the people who told me to do what i was good at/enjoyed- because it is awful advice that seems to have doomed me to unemployment.

(edited 7 months ago)

Reply 1

MindMax2000

Universities Forum Helper

21

Original post by Burneroftheyear

i am set to do philosophy/theology at durham.
i have heard terrible things about it in terms of job prospects
"a degree in starbucks"
"useless"
"little more than a weird holiday"
"pathetic"
i have heard this so so much- that despite me being interested/good at it, and having no idea what career i want, it seems like an expensive waste of time, and i dont know what to do?

is it even worth doing uni this year, or ditching it, taking a year out, and applying for something that can get me a job.

as far as i see- at best. i have to do either a law conversion/loads of post grads to get a decently paid job, at worst- a career killer
i am so angry at the people who told me to do what i was good at/enjoyed- because it is awful advice that seems to have doomed me to unemployment.

I like how your commentators demean the degree/subject. I would be curious about what they are studying.

If you're saying a degree in theology/philosophy won't set you up for a specific career like a degree in engineering or medicine will, then I would see where you're coming from. If you're saying the degree won't get you any jobs, then I would disagree.

A degree in any subject would allow you to go into 600+ different careers. That is because you can often go into these careers without doing a degree in the first place. Those areas where you would need a degree where you can apply with a degree in theology or philosophy include trainee solicitor roles (you don't need a degree in law for this) as well as teaching, investment analyst.
I don't know what sort of career you want, but I am not going to go through all 600+ different careers in a post. If you can give a better idea of what sort of jobs or industries that would suit your taste, it's going to make things significantly easier for me. If you need a list of questions to help you decide of think, let me know.

At the very least, a degree in theology should allow you to become a church minister of some sort. See: https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/religious-leader

If on the other hand you wish to tell me that you want to become a philosopher, anthropologist, archaeologist, go into film, theatre, history, then I would be a little concerned (due to the limited prospects and the level of competition for these roles).

I don't know what you consider a decent paying career, since it varies like crazy across the country, and industries change all the time. However, you're not doomed to be stuck in this situation throughout your life; you can often pivot into other roles through apprenticeships, professional qualifications, and further courses at college. If you really really need to, you can do postgrad as you have referred; the range of subjects you can go into would be limited to, as with any subject.
Unless you're specifically telling me that you want to go into something very quantitative (and somehow I think you strongly prefer not to), architecture, a specific subject for academic research, or something in life sciences/specifica areas in healthcare, then I would not be that concerned in doing a completely different subject at undergrad.

As a bit of a constellation (as if it's needed), I have seen philosophy graduates gone into accounting, finance, management, marketing, property, teaching, and tech (I think). If you want the option with the least thinking, the public sector tend to regard people with degrees highly. Does this mean that you can get into some of these sectors quicker without doing the degree in the first place? Yeah, but you can say that about most sectors.

Most grad schemes also don't specifically require you to have an undergrad in specific subjects for similar reasons.

Reply 2

Burneroftheyear

OP

5

Original post by MindMax2000

I like how your commentators demean the degree/subject. I would be curious about what they are studying.

If you're saying a degree in theology/philosophy won't set you up for a specific career like a degree in engineering or medicine will, then I would see where you're coming from. If you're saying the degree won't get you any jobs, then I would disagree.

A degree in any subject would allow you to go into 600+ different careers. That is because you can often go into these careers without doing a degree in the first place. Those areas where you would need a degree where you can apply with a degree in theology or philosophy include trainee solicitor roles (you don't need a degree in law for this) as well as teaching, investment analyst.
I don't know what sort of career you want, but I am not going to go through all 600+ different careers in a post. If you can give a better idea of what sort of jobs or industries that would suit your taste, it's going to make things significantly easier for me. If you need a list of questions to help you decide of think, let me know.

At the very least, a degree in theology should allow you to become a church minister of some sort. See: https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/religious-leader

If on the other hand you wish to tell me that you want to become a philosopher, anthropologist, archaeologist, go into film, theatre, history, then I would be a little concerned (due to the limited prospects and the level of competition for these roles).

I don't know what you consider a decent paying career, since it varies like crazy across the country, and industries change all the time. However, you're not doomed to be stuck in this situation throughout your life; you can often pivot into other roles through apprenticeships, professional qualifications, and further courses at college. If you really really need to, you can do postgrad as you have referred; the range of subjects you can go into would be limited to, as with any subject.
Unless you're specifically telling me that you want to go into something very quantitative (and somehow I think you strongly prefer not to), architecture, a specific subject for academic research, or something in life sciences/specifica areas in healthcare, then I would not be that concerned in doing a completely different subject at undergrad.

As a bit of a constellation (as if it's needed), I have seen philosophy graduates gone into accounting, finance, management, marketing, property, teaching, and tech (I think). If you want the option with the least thinking, the public sector tend to regard people with degrees highly. Does this mean that you can get into some of these sectors quicker without doing the degree in the first place? Yeah, but you can say that about most sectors.

Most grad schemes also don't specifically require you to have an undergrad in specific subjects for similar reasons.

thank you so much for your reply-
most of the ppl on reddit who demean the course are STEM (surprise surprise)
i do not want to go into the Church- i just find this subject fascinating.
i picked it because i dont really know what i want to do yet-, and RS has been my go to A* subject since pre-GCSE.

law looks fascinating, but ive also been told in this day and age- if its the non law route- you should try and get a sponsor, because its so much money- and to quote a particularly agitated person "saying you want to do well with the law conversion is like saying "im doing acting, so i am gonna be as successful as johnny depp"- i have seen/heard of ppl who go into law with history/anthropology/my awful ole degree no problem- but its much more complicated/hard than just doing the straight degree= but Law is really my only plan.... besides the Diplomatic and Development Fast Stream- which is apparently basically a personality test and you only need a 2:1.... but only 8/40,000 people get on, so its not a wise thing to plan on. Alternatively, civil service looks cool- but mostly becuase i don't see where my degree could lead me otherwise.
I've been considering changing to something like Politics/philosophy or philosophy/history- because it sounds better/looks as interesting, and hopefully i can do that- and i've heard that (politics specifically) could lead to economics/think tank stuff (with the right masters and stuff).Submit reply

i am very curious about Accounting and finance- as you said.... that doesn't make any sense at all- im not considering that area, but how would one theoretically go down that path (i know Macron did with philosophy and ended up in IB- but he's Macron, he's a bit weird)?

Reply 3

MindMax2000

Universities Forum Helper

21

Original post by Burneroftheyear

thank you so much for your reply-
most of the ppl on reddit who demean the course are STEM (surprise surprise)
i do not want to go into the Church- i just find this subject fascinating.
i picked it because i dont really know what i want to do yet-, and RS has been my go to A* subject since pre-GCSE.

law looks fascinating, but ive also been told in this day and age- if its the non law route- you should try and get a sponsor, because its so much money- and to quote a particularly agitated person "saying you want to do well with the law conversion is like saying "im doing acting, so i am gonna be as successful as johnny depp"- i have seen/heard of ppl who go into law with history/anthropology/my awful ole degree no problem- but its much more complicated/hard than just doing the straight degree= but Law is really my only plan.... besides the Diplomatic and Development Fast Stream- which is apparently basically a personality test and you only need a 2:1.... but only 8/40,000 people get on, so its not a wise thing to plan on. Alternatively, civil service looks cool- but mostly becuase i don't see where my degree could lead me otherwise.
I've been considering changing to something like Politics/philosophy or philosophy/history- because it sounds better/looks as interesting, and hopefully i can do that- and i've heard that (politics specifically) could lead to economics/think tank stuff (with the right masters and stuff).Submit reply

i am very curious about Accounting and finance- as you said.... that doesn't make any sense at all- im not considering that area, but how would one theoretically go down that path (i know Macron did with philosophy and ended up in IB- but he's Macron, he's a bit weird)?

law looks fascinating, but ive also been told in this day and age- if its the non law route- you should try and get a sponsor, because its so much money
I am not entirely sure you know, but if you want to become a solicitor you can do the SQE. The law conversion course is only necessary if you want to become a barrister. You can alternatively qualify as a solicitor and then transfer over to becoming a barrister, although it's a lot more complicated than just getting a law degree. The law conversion course costs £9k roughly out of pocket, but this can range from £6k to £13k depending on the law school (don't ask).

"im doing acting, so i am gonna be as successful as johnny depp"
I could say the same thing about politics, but that's another whole can of worms

i don't see where my degree could lead me otherwise
The random careers that you would be eligible for with no further training post A Levels include:

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Administration

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Government services

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Social work

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Some areas of healthcare

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Most areas of business (HR, marketing, accounting, sales)

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IT roles

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Some areas of construction

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Most areas of property

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Most areas of beauty and wellbeing

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Creative/design and media (if you're good)

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Theatre and film (if you're good)

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Music (if you're good)

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Anything related to writing (if you're good)

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Storage

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Logisitics

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Armed forces and police force (if you pass certain tests, have a clean record, and are of a certain age range)

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Some environmental services

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Hospitality

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Manufacturing

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Management (if you have the relevant experience)

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Retail

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Care work

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Travel and tourism

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Charity

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Entertainment (if you're good)

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Translation (if you are fluent in more than one language)

If you decide to go back to college (adult college), then you can do courses that are relevant to the following:

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Animal care (other than vet)

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Some areas of construction and certain trades

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Some areas of beauty and wellbeing

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Some areas of engineering

You can go into the following areas with specific professional qualifications (irrespective of what previous qualifications you have):

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Accounting - only require A Levels in any subject

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Actuary (if you have a math background e.g. A Level Maths)

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Law (solicitor roles via SQE)

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Most areas of finance

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Delivery and transport (licences)

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Sports coaching

I've been considering changing to something like Politics/philosophy or philosophy/history- because it sounds better/looks as interesting, and hopefully i can do that
Politics and philosophy degrees generally don't require you to have specific subjects. You can sometimes get history degrees that don't require specific subjects, but most philosophy and history joint degrees won't have any required subjects i.e. you should be fine, but I would check to be sure.

i've heard that (politics specifically) could lead to economics/think tank stuff (with the right masters and stuff).
Yep they can. It's a competitive field, and I have my opinion on political advisors/think tanks but that's another can of worms I would save for another day. I can't remember what the entry requirements are for politics as master's degrees, but I'm confident that the joint master's in politics tend not to require undergrads in specific subjects. The straight politics masters' may require an undergrad in politics or a social science. You would need to check on this.

i am very curious about Accounting and finance- as you said.... that doesn't make any sense at all- im not considering that area, but how would one theoretically go down that path
I like how you think this is theoretical. Accounting and finance are usually fields where they accept people from pretty much any background. The key is getting the professional qualification specific for the role that you want to do. Most of the roles aren't quantitative i.e. having a mathematical degree won't help you in most cases. This is because most of the roles in finance tends to be on the sell side/people skills (they call it a people's industry) and very little to do with actual financial analysis and mathematical modelling.

Should you wish to become an accoutant, your options typically are:

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accounting apprenticeship

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grad scheme

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work your way up from entry level roles

The key is to qualify in the specific accounting qualification you need e.g. ACA, ACCA, CIMA, ICAS, AIA, CAI, etc. All mentioned either asks for A Levels in any subject or nothing at all.
If you did an accounting degree (not that I recommending you to), most straight accounting degrees don't require specific subjects (the more mathematical ones ask for A Level maths, but that's because of the more quantitative finance modules). The degree would only provide up to 9 exemptions from the 13-15 papers you would need to take in the professional qualification, assuming you picked the right modules and got the right grades in them.
I find the degree route longer and unnecessarily expensive, since your employer can sponsor your studies whilst you gain the 3 years' experience to qualify. If you did the degree, you would need to gain the 3 years' experience from the ground up. Also, if you were to self study the professional qualification yourself, you're going for probably a £5k bill, assuming you pass everything the first time round. This shouldn't be necessary since your employer would likely be sponsoring you.
Contrary to popular belief, accounting is more about the processes and classification of costs/revenues than say actual maths. I have come across people who did degrees in chemistry, maths, and engineering who struggled in the beginner's accounting modules. On the other hand, I have seen people who did degrees in history, philosophy, and economics qualifying. The actual maths you use in accounting tend to be arithmetic i.e. GCSE level maths, but what makes it complciated is the processes and the judgement required.

Should you wish to do anything else in finance, chances are you won't need any prior qualifications to go for the entry level qualifications in:

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stockbrokering

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financial advisory/planning

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insurance sales

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mortgage advisory

A lot of the roles in banking generally don't require you to have any qualifications.

The only areas where you might err on the degree would be in quants and actuarial science. You can become an actuary with an A Level in maths through their apprenticeships, but you can also do a degree in actuarial science where you would get exemptions from the professional qualification (out of the 15 papers you would need to do). People with degrees in physics, engineering, and maths tend to become actuaries.
Quants whilst strictly doesn't require specific qualifications or degrees, it's usually recommended that you have a quantitiative degree that has a lot of stats and programming prior to going into this (or at least do the CQF if you're based in the UK).