American XL bully dog will be banned, says Rishi Sunak
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Do you agree with the ban on American XL bully dogs?
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All fighting dogs and cross breed XL Bully type or fighting dogs should be banned. We cannot control these dogs or control the owners for cruelty. Sadly most owners have little interest in the dog only in their own status, money, drugs or themselves. The dogs are used as a weapon against others or in dog fights. It's always the poor dog that is brutalised, inbred or used as a money making machine. If the dog is very lucky it will be taken for a walk by Barbie (or Ken)
All sentient animals deserve to be treated better than we treat each other.
All sentient animals deserve to be treated better than we treat each other.
Original post by Muttly
All sentient animals deserve to be treated better than we treat each other.
All sentient animals deserve to be treated better than we treat each other.
You say this, yet you want a load killed.
Your 'emotive' statement doesn't help this debate, but yes many will be killed. This is the 'dog handlers' problem, and the dog will be always be the loser the moment it is born.
I personally would not wish to kill any dog but sadly there are no other option for brutalised weaponised dogs. They cannot be 'rehabilitated'
If a dog needs to be killed it can and should be undertaken gently, compassionately and pain free by a vet.
If we don't grip this breed issue urgently there will be many more public deaths and serious injuries.
The worst side is that legislation is always the cheapest option. The expense is enforcing it. There has to be a will to do this but while ever there is insufficient money to enforce it ordinary innocent people will suffer. Legislation needs to be robust and created to be practical by liaising with those tasked with enforcing it. People who have responsibility for dogs should fear being banned for life and of going to prison if they mistreat animals. We have to control and criminalise unlicensed private breeding. We have to demand that those xl and cross breeds are muzzled and never allowed to be kept with children or allowed out in public without a muzzle. We can ban smoking in cars in the presence of children so I am sure we can do this with xl dogs. If you have a criminal record for a serious criminal offence you cannot hold a firearms certificate. The same should apply for keeping a dog above a certain weight if that dog can be used as a weapon.
Without checks on imports, checks on breeders, the legislation is worth diddly. As with all other lawlessness, the breeding dogs and smuggling puppies abroad makes millions for organised criminal gangs who make a mint from lax UK security.
I personally would not wish to kill any dog but sadly there are no other option for brutalised weaponised dogs. They cannot be 'rehabilitated'
If a dog needs to be killed it can and should be undertaken gently, compassionately and pain free by a vet.
If we don't grip this breed issue urgently there will be many more public deaths and serious injuries.
The worst side is that legislation is always the cheapest option. The expense is enforcing it. There has to be a will to do this but while ever there is insufficient money to enforce it ordinary innocent people will suffer. Legislation needs to be robust and created to be practical by liaising with those tasked with enforcing it. People who have responsibility for dogs should fear being banned for life and of going to prison if they mistreat animals. We have to control and criminalise unlicensed private breeding. We have to demand that those xl and cross breeds are muzzled and never allowed to be kept with children or allowed out in public without a muzzle. We can ban smoking in cars in the presence of children so I am sure we can do this with xl dogs. If you have a criminal record for a serious criminal offence you cannot hold a firearms certificate. The same should apply for keeping a dog above a certain weight if that dog can be used as a weapon.
Without checks on imports, checks on breeders, the legislation is worth diddly. As with all other lawlessness, the breeding dogs and smuggling puppies abroad makes millions for organised criminal gangs who make a mint from lax UK security.
People are taking on these bully breeds as a status symbol. These dogs were clearly bred for fighting.
I'm not surprised that another breed is now going to be banned. The attacks by XL bullies are too much.
It's the idiot owners who need banning from ever having dogs again in their lives.
I'm not surprised that another breed is now going to be banned. The attacks by XL bullies are too much.
It's the idiot owners who need banning from ever having dogs again in their lives.
It would make a lot more sense to ban all pit bull / staff varieties, they are basically all bred for attack and they are a menace in both public places and private homes. People only get these dogs for posturing purposes and to intimidate.
I do not agree with this ban because it will not help the problem at all, it is posturing and a knee-jerk reaction by the government.
I have looked at this extensively as I am interested in dog breeding, health issues in dogs and the general ethics of pedigree breeding.
The XL bully was only brought into this country fairly recently. It has exploded and now breeders are getting pretty minted off of these dogs. I strongly believe this backyard bully breeding is in large part a front for money laundering and other illicit activities. If you have a look on instagram these breeders are driving around in fast cars with gold chains and post pictures with several fire emojis and badly photoshopped posters of their stud dogs. These breeders breed for colour and aesthetics not health or temperament and sell them for thousands. The absolute worst example of these bully breeders are the breeders of 'toadline' bullies and pocket bullies. These dogs are incredibly deformed and suffer their whole short lives.
My concern is that by banning the comparatively healthy XL bully the breeders will focus on the micro and toadline bullies causing even more suffering.
These breeders do not care about the law, if they did there would not be ear cropping as that is already illegal in this country. All this ban will do is make these dogs more attractive to people who want to use them as street cred. Current dogs in rescue centres face being euthanised and only responsible compliant people will end up getting them chipped, neutered and muzzled. It hasn't worked for pit bulls and it wont work for these bullies.
Similar to pit bulls the XL bully is not a recongnised breed in this country meaning that to enforce this law they will have to do it based on 'type' which is general measurements and size which is not scientific or reliable at all.
The only dog breeds we should be banning are those who are suffering in terms of their welfare. For the uninitiated this is what a toadline micro bully looks like.
I would support the reintroduction of dog licenses rather than BSL, targetting specific breeds is just short sighted and moves the problem elsewhere (there will always be a new muscly dog created as breeds are constructs anyway and can be made by crossing other dogs into a new breed). We also need a huge crackdown on who can breed dogs.
I have looked at this extensively as I am interested in dog breeding, health issues in dogs and the general ethics of pedigree breeding.
The XL bully was only brought into this country fairly recently. It has exploded and now breeders are getting pretty minted off of these dogs. I strongly believe this backyard bully breeding is in large part a front for money laundering and other illicit activities. If you have a look on instagram these breeders are driving around in fast cars with gold chains and post pictures with several fire emojis and badly photoshopped posters of their stud dogs. These breeders breed for colour and aesthetics not health or temperament and sell them for thousands. The absolute worst example of these bully breeders are the breeders of 'toadline' bullies and pocket bullies. These dogs are incredibly deformed and suffer their whole short lives.
My concern is that by banning the comparatively healthy XL bully the breeders will focus on the micro and toadline bullies causing even more suffering.
These breeders do not care about the law, if they did there would not be ear cropping as that is already illegal in this country. All this ban will do is make these dogs more attractive to people who want to use them as street cred. Current dogs in rescue centres face being euthanised and only responsible compliant people will end up getting them chipped, neutered and muzzled. It hasn't worked for pit bulls and it wont work for these bullies.
Similar to pit bulls the XL bully is not a recongnised breed in this country meaning that to enforce this law they will have to do it based on 'type' which is general measurements and size which is not scientific or reliable at all.
The only dog breeds we should be banning are those who are suffering in terms of their welfare. For the uninitiated this is what a toadline micro bully looks like.
I would support the reintroduction of dog licenses rather than BSL, targetting specific breeds is just short sighted and moves the problem elsewhere (there will always be a new muscly dog created as breeds are constructs anyway and can be made by crossing other dogs into a new breed). We also need a huge crackdown on who can breed dogs.
(edited 7 months ago)
Original post by Fullofsurprises
It would make a lot more sense to ban all pit bull / staff varieties, they are basically all bred for attack and they are a menace in both public places and private homes. People only get these dogs for posturing purposes and to intimidate.
As of 2008 Dachsunds were the most aggressive breed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2254479/Sausage-dogs-are-the-most-aggressive-dogs.html
I'm not denying that bull breeds are involved in a lot of attacks but the phenotype of a dog (big and muscly) doesn't always mean they will be the most aggressive.
Original post by CoolCavy
As of 2008 Dachsunds were the most aggressive breed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2254479/Sausage-dogs-are-the-most-aggressive-dogs.html
I'm not denying that bull breeds are involved in a lot of attacks but the phenotype of a dog (big and muscly) doesn't always mean they will be the most aggressive.
I'm not denying that bull breeds are involved in a lot of attacks but the phenotype of a dog (big and muscly) doesn't always mean they will be the most aggressive.
But they do far more damage than a Dachshund. Last time I checked, there weren't any stories about Dachsies killing kids or running amok and injuring loads of people before being shot by police.
Original post by Muttly
All fighting dogs and cross breed XL Bully type or fighting dogs should be banned. We cannot control these dogs or control the owners for cruelty. Sadly most owners have little interest in the dog only in their own status, money, drugs or themselves. The dogs are used as a weapon against others or in dog fights. It's always the poor dog that is brutalised, inbred or used as a money making machine. If the dog is very lucky it will be taken for a walk by Barbie (or Ken)
All sentient animals deserve to be treated better than we treat each other.
All sentient animals deserve to be treated better than we treat each other.
Banning them won't do a thing, as you say a lot of these breeders are already involved in drugs, illegal car meets and general illicit activities.
One of tho most nefarious things they do is dog fertility clinics, these breeders are giving the *****es cesarean sections in garages and getting rich off of their stud dogs. These fertility clinics are unregulated and the only reason they exist is to sell as much semen as possible to other breeders who want colours like lilac, merle, chocolate etc. https://www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog/news-article/huge-spike-in-unregulated-dog-fertility-clinics-fuelling-an-animal-welfare-disaster-vets-warn/#:~:text=Advice%20for%20dog%20owners&text=While%20some%20non%2Dinvasive%20procedures,by%20a%20vet%20by%20law.
Banning something makes it more alluring to criminals and these dogs won't go away they will just go underground like pitbulls have.
A strong legal crack down on breeding/fertility clinics and licenses before you can get a dog are the only way to really tackle this issue. Standard bullies arent all that much smaller than the XL and some other new muscly powerful breed will be invented soon enough in America and then imported over here.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
It would make a lot more sense to ban all pit bull / staff varieties, they are basically all bred for attack and they are a menace in both public places and private homes. People only get these dogs for posturing purposes and to intimidate.
I don’t like chihuahuas personally.
(edited 7 months ago)
Original post by Fullofsurprises
But they do far more damage than a Dachshund. Last time I checked, there weren't any stories about Dachsies killing kids or running amok and injuring loads of people before being shot by police.
That is also helped by the fact that most dachsunds are owned by middle class people who probably aren't using them for street cred or as a status symbol. I'm not denying that bullies are a lot more powerful than a dachsund but a husky isnt a million miles away from a pitbull in terms of power and something like a rottweiler can be bigger and stronger than a staffy.
The difference is in who tends to own these breeds, if belgian malinois became the trendy breed for gangs to have then they would be as dangerous as an XL bully.
Which is why breed specific legislation is pointless, there will always be a new powerful breed on the scene. Dog ownership and breeding legislation needs to apply to all breeds. This will help public safety and reduce the amount of animal welfare issues.
Original post by CoolCavy
Which is why breed specific legislation is pointless, there will always be a new powerful breed on the scene. Dog ownership and breeding legislation needs to apply to all breeds. This will help public safety and reduce the amount of animal welfare issues.
I agree there would always be some new muscle breed to satisfy the drug gangs, assorted headbangers and poseurs. But realistically you have to start somewhere.
These dogs don't mess around. Look at the recent videos of them mauling people. They're just used for street credit by most of the owners. Anyway I wonder how they will take the dogs away from the current owners.
If dogs defined as 'dangerous' already in the UK are not euthanised, the Government may still ban the breeding or import of such dogs (the breeds that are heavy and powerful or are cross bred as fighting dogs) The powers that be could also assert that all dogs currently in the UK matching this definition be castrated, chipped and muzzled. It is just a shame that the owners of such dogs deemed dangerous, or persons involved encouraging their criminal use can't undergo such similar treatments.
Original post by Driving_Mad
These dogs don't mess around. Look at the recent videos of them mauling people. They're just used for street credit by most of the owners. Anyway I wonder how they will take the dogs away from the current owners.
I am curious as well.
My understanding is that if an expert decides the dog isn’t a threat, the owners can keep it (provided they obey the restrictions around owning it, e.g muzzling it everywhere it goes, getting it neutered etc). In the event it isn’t judged to be safe, my assumption is it is seized immediately after assessment.
Imo the ban is absolutely justified and we have seen a similar ban put in place with pit bulls, which seems to have worked. We can only hope the planned ban has a similar effect.
(edited 7 months ago)
More kneejerk Dangerous Dog bans or new legislation from a Conservative government that bans dogs based on their breed.
Instead of banning habitually criminal or neglectful people from ever being dog owners, breeders and dog walkers.
The dog's breed and size are not the main problem, it is the human owners & breeders that are.
I'm experienced with the XLB breed and have worked with them for many years, I am sitting next to 4 XLBs as I'm typing now.
Instead of banning habitually criminal or neglectful people from ever being dog owners, breeders and dog walkers.
The dog's breed and size are not the main problem, it is the human owners & breeders that are.
I'm experienced with the XLB breed and have worked with them for many years, I am sitting next to 4 XLBs as I'm typing now.
Original post by Driving_Mad
Anyway I wonder how they will take the dogs away from the current owners.
They won't straight away there will be an amnesty which involves having existing dogs neutered, chipped and muzzled in public.
Original post by londonmyst
More kneejerk Dangerous Dog bans or new legislation from a Conservative government that bans dogs based on their breed.
Instead of banning habitually criminal or neglectful people from ever being dog owners, breeders and dog walkers.
The dog's breed and size are not the main problem, it is the human owners & breeders that are.
I'm experienced with the XLB breed and have worked with them for many years, I am sitting next to 4 XLBs as I'm typing now.
Instead of banning habitually criminal or neglectful people from ever being dog owners, breeders and dog walkers.
The dog's breed and size are not the main problem, it is the human owners & breeders that are.
I'm experienced with the XLB breed and have worked with them for many years, I am sitting next to 4 XLBs as I'm typing now.
Damn, if only all those dead and maimed kids had realised the dog's size wasn't an issue, they could've simply lifted it up and put it somewhere safe.
Original post by CoolCavy
That is also helped by the fact that most dachsunds are owned by middle class people who probably aren't using them for street cred or as a status symbol. I'm not denying that bullies are a lot more powerful than a dachsund but a husky isnt a million miles away from a pitbull in terms of power and something like a rottweiler can be bigger and stronger than a staffy.
The difference is in who tends to own these breeds, if belgian malinois became the trendy breed for gangs to have then they would be as dangerous as an XL bully.
Which is why breed specific legislation is pointless, there will always be a new powerful breed on the scene. Dog ownership and breeding legislation needs to apply to all breeds. This will help public safety and reduce the amount of animal welfare issues.
The difference is in who tends to own these breeds, if belgian malinois became the trendy breed for gangs to have then they would be as dangerous as an XL bully.
Which is why breed specific legislation is pointless, there will always be a new powerful breed on the scene. Dog ownership and breeding legislation needs to apply to all breeds. This will help public safety and reduce the amount of animal welfare issues.
Are dachsunds also popular among gangsters, then? Since apparently that's the only way a dog can have aggression issues.
(edited 7 months ago)
Original post by Captain Haddock
Damn, if only all those dead and maimed kids had realised the dog's size wasn't an issue, they could've simply lifted it up and put it somewhere safe.
Are dachsunds also popular among gangsters, then? Since apparently that's the only way a dog can have aggression issues.
Are dachsunds also popular among gangsters, then? Since apparently that's the only way a dog can have aggression issues.
Nowhere have I suggested that and most aggression is based on training (or lackthereof) and the dog's environment rather than raw instinct. This exactly proves my point by the way that any dog can be aggressive and breed specific bans are short sighted to the overall problem of irresponsible owners and bad breeders. If you want to use children as an emotive example, Jade Anderson's death was a result of animal neglect as the dog's were not fed and her having food in her hands caused the attack. A lot of lockdown brought dogs (cutsey spaniels, cockapoos, dachsunds etc) are also having behavioural issues as they enter adolescence as they were impulse buys during the pandemic and now their owners cannot devote enough time to them now they are back at work. The BBC released an article on this not so long ago: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66723458
Many of these pandemic puppies were brought unknowingly from backyard breeders, puppy smugglers, dog thieves and general criminals actually so perhaps gangsters have a bigger interest in Dachsunds than you think, especially merle ones because that's a 'rare' colour (mainly because breeding two merles together causes puppies with blindness) and they sell for thousands. £3000 to £4000 according to the BVA: https://bvajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/vetr.252
Also just as an aside if you do witness a dog attack by any breed lifting it up is actually the worst thing you can do as you end up in a tug of war with it and the bite force applied is greater. The best thing to do is to try and get something around its neck to strangle it and force it to release.
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