Rishi Sunak considering banning cigarettes for the next generation
https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-considering-banning-cigarettes-for-next-generation-12967763
I personally support such policy but I’m not sure how this will get people to stop smoking.
I personally support such policy but I’m not sure how this will get people to stop smoking.
Sunak = extremely desperate for headlines and policies that you can print on a lectern. I don't see much point in even validating him by discussion.
It is an interesting one, we “accept” cigarettes as they have been around for a while. If they were Invented now no chance we’d allow them
I dont smoke myself (i never have done), but i dont see how he is going to get away with banning them.
True, banning cigarettes outright for the next generation will just force the market underground where it cannot be regulated and will be the preserve of criminals. If Rishi is supposedly also trying to get tough on drug dealers, then why is he providing them with another business route through propping up a potentially lucrative new black market for nicotine products? Though a similar scheme has been pitched in NZ, I cannot see it working in the UK, to be completely honest.
Original post by Emma:-)
I dont smoke myself (i never have done), but i dont see how he is going to get away with banning them.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by frauschlange
True, banning cigarettes outright for the next generation will just force the market underground where it cannot be regulated and will be the preserve of criminals. If Rishi is supposedly also trying to get tough on drug dealers, then why is he providing them with another business route through propping up a potentially lucrative new black market for nicotine products? Though a similar scheme has been pitched in NZ, I cannot see it working in the UK, to be completely honest.
No, i cant see it working either.
So much for limited state intervention, small government and treating resident citizen adults like adults. 
I wish that I could apportion the blame solely in the direction of the wets determined to ban, tax, playground whine and meddle in the things that have little or no support with the hard pressed British public during on the worst economic environments since the rationing came to an end.
I wish that I could apportion the blame solely in the direction of the wets determined to ban, tax, playground whine and meddle in the things that have little or no support with the hard pressed British public during on the worst economic environments since the rationing came to an end.
Original post by Talkative Toad
https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-considering-banning-cigarettes-for-next-generation-12967763
I personally support such policy but I’m not sure how this will get people to stop smoking.
I personally support such policy but I’m not sure how this will get people to stop smoking.
As ever, it completely misses the point. Hardly anyone smokes cigarettes these days but instead we now have a wide spread, unregulated highly lucrative vaping market which is not only getting millions of people addicted to nicotine but is also creating a mountain of waste and pumping those people full of a whole new set of undesirable chemicals.
Other policies Sunak has put forward that have no bearing on anything include:
- banning mobile phones from schools when head teachers already have that disgression
- banning 20mph zones apart from where local councils including Tory councils want them
- scrapping the ban on selling petrol / diesel cars by 2030 even though most car manufacturers have no doubt planned that date into their future production plans.
This guy has enough hot air inside him to fill a balloon.
Needs to ban pron too
Original post by hotpud
As ever, it completely misses the point. Hardly anyone smokes cigarettes these days but instead we now have a wide spread, unregulated highly lucrative vaping market which is not only getting millions of people addicted to nicotine but is also creating a mountain of waste and pumping those people full of a whole new set of undesirable chemicals.
Other policies Sunak has put forward that have no bearing on anything include:
- banning mobile phones from schools when head teachers already have that disgression
- banning 20mph zones apart from where local councils including Tory councils want them
- scrapping the ban on selling petrol / diesel cars by 2030 even though most car manufacturers have no doubt planned that date into their future production plans.
This guy has enough hot air inside him to fill a balloon.
Other policies Sunak has put forward that have no bearing on anything include:
- banning mobile phones from schools when head teachers already have that disgression
- banning 20mph zones apart from where local councils including Tory councils want them
- scrapping the ban on selling petrol / diesel cars by 2030 even though most car manufacturers have no doubt planned that date into their future production plans.
This guy has enough hot air inside him to fill a balloon.
The biggest danger in smoking whether it’s cigarettes or vapes is Nicotine. It’s the nicotine that causes cardiovascular disease, like high blood pressure, heart attacks, strokes, vascular dementia and poor circulation that can result in limbs having to be amputated. This is what nicotine does and it’s what vape users risk.
Only 20% of cigarette smokers actually get cancer according to the CDC.
https://www.medicinenet.com/what_percentage_of_smokers_get_lung_cancer/article.htm#
Smokers are more likely to get or die from cardiovascular disease primarily from the nicotine.
As for vaping we don’t yet know if it causes cancer or not. Putting an electric current through vaping fluid isn’t a great idea! It could create free radicals that could cause cancer. But certainly it’s the nicotine that’s the problem.
Banning cigarettes isn’t going to work. What would be better is to create a nicotine free cigarette. Nicotine can be removed from tobacco just like caffeine can be removed from tea. People would be able to smoke nicotine free cigarettes, cigars etc without the risk of heart disease strokes or vascular dementia etc. Yes there is the cancer risk but it’s only 20% and it’s mostly heavy smokers at greatest risk. Without addictive nicotine people are less likely to smoke heavily and that could reduce the cancer risk.
(edited 6 months ago)
Ironically banning them probably goes against the Conservative ideology even more than what we do now (taxing them considerably), so can hardly see even his own party backing this. They'd probably get a similar outcome without potentially creating (as many) black markets for them by just taxing them more.
20% is a huge risk of cancer. Compare to cervical cancer, which considers that those who don't have an HPV vaccine or get screened have a 1-2% lifetime chance of developing it, and it's considered a very common (WHO estimates it as the 4th most common for those with a cervix) cancer. Hand waving it that 1 in 5 smokers getting lung cancer is absurd - that's literally 10x more common than cervical cancer which is such a big risk the government has made cervical screening available to all those who may be affected over a certain age as I understand
Also smoking invariably exposes others and not just the smoker, so it's a double dip health risk. People smoking not only put themsleves at risk, but also others. And even if they did "only" put themselves at risk, that represents a significant taxpayer cost in treating them, not to mention potential social care costs, employment related costs/opportunity costs, etc. It costs everyone. There's a reason it's a major focus of public health initiatives - not only can cutting down on smoking and associated cancers save lives, it can also save a lot of money that could in theory be used to support other health or social care initiatives or public services in general.
Also nicotine isn't an additive it's a naturally occurring chemical in tobacco plants. Removing it is probably a lot more complex than you are implying, if even possible.
Original post by Ambitious1999
The biggest danger in smoking whether it’s cigarettes or vapes is Nicotine. It’s the nicotine that causes cardiovascular disease, like high blood pressure, heart attacks, strokes, vascular dementia and poor circulation that can result in limbs having to be amputated. This is what nicotine does and it’s what vape users risk.
Only 20% of cigarette smokers actually get cancer according to the CDC.
https://www.medicinenet.com/what_percentage_of_smokers_get_lung_cancer/article.htm#
Smokers are more likely to get or die from cardiovascular disease primarily from the nicotine.
As for vaping we don’t yet know if it causes cancer or not. Putting an electric current through vaping fluid isn’t a great idea! It could create free radicals that could cause cancer. But certainly it’s the nicotine that’s the problem.
Banning cigarettes isn’t going to work. What would be better is to create a nicotine free cigarette. Nicotine can be removed from tobacco just like caffeine can be removed from tea. People would be able to smoke nicotine free cigarettes, cigars etc without the risk of heart disease strokes or vascular dementia etc. Yes there is the cancer risk but it’s only 20% and it’s mostly heavy smokers at greatest risk. Without addictive nicotine people are less likely to smoke heavily and that could reduce the cancer risk.
Only 20% of cigarette smokers actually get cancer according to the CDC.
https://www.medicinenet.com/what_percentage_of_smokers_get_lung_cancer/article.htm#
Smokers are more likely to get or die from cardiovascular disease primarily from the nicotine.
As for vaping we don’t yet know if it causes cancer or not. Putting an electric current through vaping fluid isn’t a great idea! It could create free radicals that could cause cancer. But certainly it’s the nicotine that’s the problem.
Banning cigarettes isn’t going to work. What would be better is to create a nicotine free cigarette. Nicotine can be removed from tobacco just like caffeine can be removed from tea. People would be able to smoke nicotine free cigarettes, cigars etc without the risk of heart disease strokes or vascular dementia etc. Yes there is the cancer risk but it’s only 20% and it’s mostly heavy smokers at greatest risk. Without addictive nicotine people are less likely to smoke heavily and that could reduce the cancer risk.
20% is a huge risk of cancer. Compare to cervical cancer, which considers that those who don't have an HPV vaccine or get screened have a 1-2% lifetime chance of developing it, and it's considered a very common (WHO estimates it as the 4th most common for those with a cervix) cancer. Hand waving it that 1 in 5 smokers getting lung cancer is absurd - that's literally 10x more common than cervical cancer which is such a big risk the government has made cervical screening available to all those who may be affected over a certain age as I understand
Also smoking invariably exposes others and not just the smoker, so it's a double dip health risk. People smoking not only put themsleves at risk, but also others. And even if they did "only" put themselves at risk, that represents a significant taxpayer cost in treating them, not to mention potential social care costs, employment related costs/opportunity costs, etc. It costs everyone. There's a reason it's a major focus of public health initiatives - not only can cutting down on smoking and associated cancers save lives, it can also save a lot of money that could in theory be used to support other health or social care initiatives or public services in general.
Also nicotine isn't an additive it's a naturally occurring chemical in tobacco plants. Removing it is probably a lot more complex than you are implying, if even possible.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by Ambitious1999
The biggest danger in smoking whether it’s cigarettes or vapes is Nicotine. It’s the nicotine that causes cardiovascular disease, like high blood pressure, heart attacks, strokes, vascular dementia and poor circulation that can result in limbs having to be amputated. This is what nicotine does and it’s what vape users risk.
Only 20% of cigarette smokers actually get cancer according to the CDC.
https://www.medicinenet.com/what_percentage_of_smokers_get_lung_cancer/article.htm#
Smokers are more likely to get or die from cardiovascular disease primarily from the nicotine.
As for vaping we don’t yet know if it causes cancer or not. Putting an electric current through vaping fluid isn’t a great idea! It could create free radicals that could cause cancer. But certainly it’s the nicotine that’s the problem.
Banning cigarettes isn’t going to work. What would be better is to create a nicotine free cigarette. Nicotine can be removed from tobacco just like caffeine can be removed from tea. People would be able to smoke nicotine free cigarettes, cigars etc without the risk of heart disease strokes or vascular dementia etc. Yes there is the cancer risk but it’s only 20% and it’s mostly heavy smokers at greatest risk. Without addictive nicotine people are less likely to smoke heavily and that could reduce the cancer risk.
Only 20% of cigarette smokers actually get cancer according to the CDC.
https://www.medicinenet.com/what_percentage_of_smokers_get_lung_cancer/article.htm#
Smokers are more likely to get or die from cardiovascular disease primarily from the nicotine.
As for vaping we don’t yet know if it causes cancer or not. Putting an electric current through vaping fluid isn’t a great idea! It could create free radicals that could cause cancer. But certainly it’s the nicotine that’s the problem.
Banning cigarettes isn’t going to work. What would be better is to create a nicotine free cigarette. Nicotine can be removed from tobacco just like caffeine can be removed from tea. People would be able to smoke nicotine free cigarettes, cigars etc without the risk of heart disease strokes or vascular dementia etc. Yes there is the cancer risk but it’s only 20% and it’s mostly heavy smokers at greatest risk. Without addictive nicotine people are less likely to smoke heavily and that could reduce the cancer risk.
I'm sure you are right. But whatever the potential downsides, it has kicked off a new generation of vapers some of whom might not have smoked because smoking is so prohibitively expensive these days. Also, the unregulated nature of the market mean that it is possible to buy vapes with almost anything in them, something school kids seem to be particularly prone to:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65614078
I am no expert but I don't remember lead and nickel being in the basket of chemicals that are good for your lungs.
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