Rishi Sunak delays ban on new petrol and diesel cars
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Original post by Quady
Sounds like semantics...
Thus speaks TSR's doyen of cryptic comments!
Original post by Fullofsurprises
EVs have been getting cheaper, maybe not fast enough, but there's a clear trend.
The bigger issues with EVs are global and of course surround the mining and processing of sufficient materials such as Lithium crucial to battery manufacture and the intensification of battery technology research. From what I've read, I'm still not convinced that battery-electric vehicles are really the best way to go.
EVs have been getting cheaper, maybe not fast enough, but there's a clear trend.
The bigger issues with EVs are global and of course surround the mining and processing of sufficient materials such as Lithium crucial to battery manufacture and the intensification of battery technology research. From what I've read, I'm still not convinced that battery-electric vehicles are really the best way to go.
They might have been getting cheaper but still not cheap enough.
I’m not convinced either.
I don't mind electric vehicles as a concept, I must admit that filling up my car with petrol does seem a bit antiquated considering I have known my entire life that it is a finite resource that is rapidly depleting.
However my main concern is charging, a lot of people are in rental properties and cannot afford their own homes. I don't understand where the average person who doesn't own their own driveway is supposed to charge their electric vehicles. A lot of properties around my local area are terraced, there have been pictures of cars being charged across pathways onto the streets which creates a hazard for pedestrians and wheelchair users.
If petrol and diesel are made completely redundant then forecourts will be converted to charging stations but there will be huge backlogs at present. Currently you drive to the forecourt and even when you pay at a kiosk rather than at the pump the whole thing takes less than about 3 minutes and even with that there are already queues at the pumps. Half an hour charging just isn't feasible for public charging and fast charging kills battery life and it's ability to hold charge.
However my main concern is charging, a lot of people are in rental properties and cannot afford their own homes. I don't understand where the average person who doesn't own their own driveway is supposed to charge their electric vehicles. A lot of properties around my local area are terraced, there have been pictures of cars being charged across pathways onto the streets which creates a hazard for pedestrians and wheelchair users.
If petrol and diesel are made completely redundant then forecourts will be converted to charging stations but there will be huge backlogs at present. Currently you drive to the forecourt and even when you pay at a kiosk rather than at the pump the whole thing takes less than about 3 minutes and even with that there are already queues at the pumps. Half an hour charging just isn't feasible for public charging and fast charging kills battery life and it's ability to hold charge.
Original post by Talkative Toad
They might have been getting cheaper but still not cheap enough.
I’m not convinced either.
I’m not convinced either.
The expense argument isn't a great argument really, the initial cost is more expensive at present but the general maintenance is a lot less because there are loads of parts on an ICE car that an electric car doesn't have. For example I just paid a few hundred quid to have my timing belt replaced which is a part an electric car doesn't have.
However in terms of expense my concern is second hand cars, most people don't buy a brand new car unless they are wealthy or can afford to finance up to their eyeballs. Currently its not worth replacing the batteries on these electric cars due to expense. With an ICE car the parts also depreciate but a lot of them can be replaced or fixed to keep it limping on. My concern with cost would be that it is going to make driving prohibitive to people who can't afford brand new cars or cars on finance. The type of people like myself who are driving around cars from the 2000s.
Original post by Supermature
Assuming the delay to 2035 goes ahead, this would only put us in line with the EU, except insofar as the EU has left open the option of allowing internal combustion engine cars powered by synthetic fuel. (I have not seen any reference to the use of synthetic fuels here in the UK).
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/03/22/eu-to-ban-petrol-and-diesel-cars-by-2035-heres-why-some-countries-are-pushing-back
If the UK, with a population of 67 million, banned petrol and diesel cars in 2030 would it really make that much difference to climate change if the EU, with 448 million inhabitants, carried on until 2035?
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/03/22/eu-to-ban-petrol-and-diesel-cars-by-2035-heres-why-some-countries-are-pushing-back
If the UK, with a population of 67 million, banned petrol and diesel cars in 2030 would it really make that much difference to climate change if the EU, with 448 million inhabitants, carried on until 2035?
We could have been innovation leaders and that would have been good for buisness and the economy..There would have been many technological advances before most people would have to stop driving their old cars when they died in 2045!
Original post by Supermature
But on the particular issue of electric cars, it is going to be very difficult for politicians who oppose the switch to a 2035 deadline when this is the date that has been adopted in most other European countries. If, as early reports suggest, the Labour Party commits to reinstating 2030, it will cost it votes and possibly even threaten its chances of obtaining a majority in the forthcoming general election.
But on the particular issue of electric cars, it is going to be very difficult for politicians who oppose the switch to a 2035 deadline when this is the date that has been adopted in most other European countries. If, as early reports suggest, the Labour Party commits to reinstating 2030, it will cost it votes and possibly even threaten its chances of obtaining a majority in the forthcoming general election.
Honestly this is the crux of it, generally tory voters are against these sorts of measures and a lot of people are starting to feel resentment against the policies that are happening in Wales for instance. This is a last grasp attempt to get retain the traditionalist vote and the votes of those who are getting annoyed with 'the war against the motorist'. It's very predictable and indeed I remember seeing someone saying this exact thing would happen a few months ago on social media.
Personally although I find the blanket 20mph zones etc in places like Wales ill-thought through I would prefer the trade off of things like that rather than another 5 years of Tory austerity. Some people won't though which is what Rishi is banking on.
Ultimately though it does rather show why long term goals like these are largely pointless (sorry to be pessimistic), by the time 2035 rolls around we will have probably gone through another boatload of prime ministers.
Original post by CoolCavy
The expense argument isn't a great argument really, the initial cost is more expensive at present but the general maintenance is a lot less because there are loads of parts on an ICE car that an electric car doesn't have. For example I just paid a few hundred quid to have my timing belt replaced which is a part an electric car doesn't have.
However in terms of expense my concern is second hand cars, most people don't buy a brand new car unless they are wealthy or can afford to finance up to their eyeballs. Currently its not worth replacing the batteries on these electric cars due to expense. With an ICE car the parts also depreciate but a lot of them can be replaced or fixed to keep it limping on. My concern with cost would be that it is going to make driving prohibitive to people who can't afford brand new cars or cars on finance. The type of people like myself who are driving around cars from the 2000s.
The expense argument isn't a great argument really, the initial cost is more expensive at present but the general maintenance is a lot less because there are loads of parts on an ICE car that an electric car doesn't have. For example I just paid a few hundred quid to have my timing belt replaced which is a part an electric car doesn't have.
However in terms of expense my concern is second hand cars, most people don't buy a brand new car unless they are wealthy or can afford to finance up to their eyeballs. Currently its not worth replacing the batteries on these electric cars due to expense. With an ICE car the parts also depreciate but a lot of them can be replaced or fixed to keep it limping on. My concern with cost would be that it is going to make driving prohibitive to people who can't afford brand new cars or cars on finance. The type of people like myself who are driving around cars from the 2000s.
Ah yeah but it’s still cheaper to buy a petrol car than an electric one, they need to make electric cars cheaper still if they expect people to stop using/buying diesel and petrol cars or they need to make public transport affordable and viable to use.
I don’t see the government doing any of this.
Original post by Quady
Eh?
It's 14°C in my hoose.
WHEN WILL CLIMATE CHANGE BRING WARMING??@
It's 14°C in my hoose.
WHEN WILL CLIMATE CHANGE BRING WARMING??@
It will be even worse when you’re flooded. Or adversely affected by related global disasters and unrest
Original post by Supermature
Assuming the delay to 2035 goes ahead, this would only put us in line with the EU, except insofar as the EU has left open the option of allowing internal combustion engine cars powered by synthetic fuel. (I have not seen any reference to the use of synthetic fuels here in the UK).
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/03/22/eu-to-ban-petrol-and-diesel-cars-by-2035-heres-why-some-countries-are-pushing-back
If the UK, with a population of 67 million, banned petrol and diesel cars in 2030 would it really make that much difference to climate change if the EU, with 448 million inhabitants, carried on until 2035?
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/03/22/eu-to-ban-petrol-and-diesel-cars-by-2035-heres-why-some-countries-are-pushing-back
If the UK, with a population of 67 million, banned petrol and diesel cars in 2030 would it really make that much difference to climate change if the EU, with 448 million inhabitants, carried on until 2035?
Globally we are behind climate change targets and warming marches on. Every nation needs to innovate and accelerate progress. Although you can argue this change is a drop in the ocean, its still cynical and appalling complacency. Hopefully they will be punished for this, along with all the other things
Original post by Zarek
It will be even worse when you’re flooded. Or adversely affected by related global disasters and unrest
Flooded? We are at the top of a hill.
'Global disasters and unrest'? Care to explain a potential example? I'm more concerned about the civil unrest caused by orange marches and those wanting freedom tbh.
Original post by Quady
Flooded? We are at the top of a hill.
'Global disasters and unrest'? Care to explain a potential example? I'm more concerned about the civil unrest caused by orange marches and those wanting freedom tbh.
'Global disasters and unrest'? Care to explain a potential example? I'm more concerned about the civil unrest caused by orange marches and those wanting freedom tbh.
Yes, that another problem you need a competent government to get to grips with
Original post by Permalockdownpls
Starmer will be in charge next year anyway, it was already likely predetermined years ago. So it will be a defacto Tony Blair government hand in glove with the WEF.
Bojo and Truss are the WEF's representatives for the UK, they are tge ones pulling the strings.
Original post by Permalockdownpls
Mans impact on climate is minimal; these changes in climate will occur regardless. Net Zero Carbon effectively means Net Zero Life. In any case one could point to mass immigration and the resultant concreting over of native English woodlands for yet more foreigners - totally unsustainable.
They are no changes to climate.
Might as well concrete over English woodland - tree don't pay.
Original post by Zarek
Globally we are behind climate change targets and warming marches on. Every nation needs to innovate and accelerate progress. Although you can argue this change is a drop in the ocean, its still cynical and appalling complacency. Hopefully they will be punished for this, along with all the other things
I am not convinced that the UK is in a position to take the associated risks; its economy is in a perilous state, its manufacturing base is severely depleted and most of the UK based car manufacturing industry is foreign owned. The UK is far down the list of leading car manufacturing nations, behind Thailand, Slovakia and Iran. Germany, Europe's largest and the world's sixth largest manufacturer of motor vehicles, is much better placed to take the lead and it is interesting that it has insisted on keeping open the option of synthetic fuel for internal combustion engines.
It may well be that battery-electric vehicles represent the future of motoring - but it was widely believed that gas plasma TVs would take over from cathode ray tubes until LCD/LED technology rendered both of them extinct. Better to acknowledge our place as a minor player in this game and follow the big boys.
Original post by Permalockdownpls
Mans impact on climate is minimal; these changes in climate will occur regardless. Net Zero Carbon effectively means Net Zero Life. In any case one could point to mass immigration and the resultant concreting over of native English woodlands for yet more foreigners - totally unsustainable.
Thankfully the majority do not subscribe to these unsavoury and crazy views
Original post by Supermature
I am not convinced that the UK is in a position to take the associated risks; its economy is in a perilous state, its manufacturing base is severely depleted and most of the UK based car manufacturing industry is foreign owned. The UK is far down the list of leading car manufacturing nations, behind Thailand, Slovakia and Iran. Germany, Europe's largest and the world's sixth largest manufacturer of motor vehicles, is much better placed to take the lead and it is interesting that it has insisted on keeping open the option of synthetic fuel for internal combustion engines.
It may well be that battery-electric vehicles represent the future of motoring - but it was widely believed that gas plasma TVs would take over from cathode ray tubes until LCD/LED technology rendered both of them extinct. Better to acknowledge our place as a minor player in this game and follow the big boys.
It may well be that battery-electric vehicles represent the future of motoring - but it was widely believed that gas plasma TVs would take over from cathode ray tubes until LCD/LED technology rendered both of them extinct. Better to acknowledge our place as a minor player in this game and follow the big boys.
It is as much about a principle of committing to the need to do things differently, as to this one example. Relaxing climate change targets is daft
Original post by Zarek
Thankfully the majority do not subscribe to these unsavoury and crazy views
You're pro-concrete, anti-trees too then?
Original post by Talkative Toad
https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-confirms-hes-delaying-ban-on-new-petrol-and-diesel-cars-and-boosts-boiler-upgrade-scheme-12965656
Electric cars are honestly too expensive to buy at the moment.
Electric cars are honestly too expensive to buy at the moment.
As well as the fact that electric cars are too expensive, the infrastructure for them is no where near good enough yet. Quite a few places dont have charging points, and those that do dont have nearly enough. What about people who live in terraced houses/have no off road parking- how are they meant to charge their cars?
People could use public transport, but public transport isnt nearly good enough. The only place where public transport is good enough is london.
Original post by Emma:-)
As well as the fact that electric cars are too expensive, the infrastructure for them is no where near good enough yet. Quite a few places dont have charging points, and those that do dont have nearly enough. What about people who live in terraced houses/have no off road parking- how are they meant to charge their cars?
People could use public transport, but public transport isnt nearly good enough. The only place where public transport is good enough is london.
As well as the fact that electric cars are too expensive, the infrastructure for them is no where near good enough yet. Quite a few places dont have charging points, and those that do dont have nearly enough. What about people who live in terraced houses/have no off road parking- how are they meant to charge their cars?
People could use public transport, but public transport isnt nearly good enough. The only place where public transport is good enough is london.
I’ve heard that the midlands has good (as in high standard) public transport as well, notably Nottingham and Birmingham but I might be wrong on that.
Original post by Talkative Toad
I’ve heard that the midlands has good (as in high standard) public transport as well, notably Nottingham and Birmingham but I might be wrong on that.
Bimingham and Nottingham might have decent public transport. But there is certainly room for improvement. Outside of the cities though, the public transport is deffo in need of improvement. And i can say that as i live in the midlands myself.
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