Durham or St Andrews - Computer science

go with st andrews its better

Durham has a very difficult CS degree (I'd know, I've done the 3 year one and now I'm graduating from their Masters too), but I'd still recommend it if you like a challenge. Additionally, it's very AI-focused and you'll come out of it very ready for probably any future job that emerges. The students are also usually very nice when it comes to CS and it's not too hard to make good friends 🙂 Durham is also super focused on research, there are lots of theory-based modules and most practical modules have a theoretic spin as well.

What a well rounded response and from the best possible person too, since you’ve gone down the route I plan to. Got some quick questions: In terms of opportunities do you think Durham provided this? When I went to the St Andrews open day I was told many FAANG companies & fintech companies come to cs societies and give insights (which is a great time to network), was there anything similar? Moreover, given it’s only 3 years did you find it hard learning to program? did you have prior experience helping you? Thanks.☺️

I have applied & received offers but I am struggling to decide between Durham & St Andrews for computer science and here is why:

I am in year 13, but I plan to pursue a master's degree directly after completing my undergraduate studies. Through research, I've discovered that this could indirectly add years to my experience profile, potentially making me more attractive to employers and increasing my chances of securing roles with higher starting salaries than just entry-level, as many professionals I have networked with have experienced. However, this path does require some time.

St Andrews is a 4 year course, this would extend my university journey to 5 years, which feels quite lengthy. However, I may gain deeper knowledge. It would significantly boost my understanding and proficiency in programming that I feel I may need upon reading on the struggle of learning programming at university.

Durham would instead only be 3 years, but those 3 years may be difficult for me as i mentioned people have stated, meaning they may have been better off with the cushion of the extra year

I find both to be the same level of prestige, but please correct me if I’m wrong. Additionally, please provide any insights that you can on the matter, it would help greatly for me to make an informed decision.

For Computer Science, I would say Durham is better than St Andrews course-wise and the facilities available. They have decent industry connections (not the best but it will suffice. There will be a lot of competition for those places amongst your cohort).

As for the Masters you want to pursue, I am much like you in that sense. I too want to do a Masters at some university. However, after completing my 3 year undergraduate degree, I am going to enter industry to gain a bit more experience, other than the internships I have already completed and the ones I am going to complete while on my course.

This is because I don't think I would be 100 % certain as to what should be the topic of focus for my Masters straight after my undergraduate degree so I want to gain experience in all fields before finally making a decision.

I have done three internships: one for a software development firm, one with a cybersecurity team at Fujitsu and a FinTech and software dev internship with J.P. Morgan Chase.

Have you received any other offers? In my list of 5 universities, I got rejected by Cambridge pre-interview, offer from Imperial, waiting on Durham decision, offer from Edinburgh and offer from Manchester.

You have to go to a place where the opportunity is far and wide, which is why I am 10000000000% firming Imperial. The graduate prospects are some of the best in the country, I really like the course structure, I don't mind living in London (thought this sentiment may well change if I have to live there) and the internship opportunities are off the charts.

If you have, I will take a look at that university in comparison to Durham and St Andrews and see what your best option is.

As of now, I think it is Durham.

Thank you, I see you are quite similar to me, before I properly respond I must ask, do you attend Durham or is this your idea of what Durham is, if you do please could you provided more insight on your experience there further.

[start]Shifting focus, yes I recieved offers from Durham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, awaiting St Andrews and rejected from Oxford due to errors in my MAT exam and my inability to retake it. I’m actually undecided with Edinburgh too, I recognize it is a tech hub & internships will be more readily available given this but I noticed Durham and St Andrews hold more prestige. I intentionally didn’t apply to any London universities due to personal preference but I can see why it would be enticing during a masters degree (I believe imperial to be the place for me too, once I am at the stage of picking my post graduate university, but I will have to see).[/start]

[start]Overall then, you’d say course-wise Durham is better, but only decent connections, what gives you this impression? And what makes you believe that is not the case for St Andrews. If you know St Andrews it is a small place, could this be why?[/start]

[start]Thanks again for your response.[/start]

Absolutely no problem. I am in year 13. I attended the Open Day at Durham. The tech hub in the city itself isn't that big, if not scarcely existing, and the university is more focussed on research than getting people into industry. Durham does carry value but it's not the flagship course for the university so there will be fewer connections available to tap into. The Open Day talks seemed to be focussed more on research than industry. I think they spent tops 5 minutes talking about their industry connections, which they describe as "good" and not as convincing. In comparison, Imperial covered all bases but talked about the internship opportunities available in particular. The Durham course is focussed more on theory so looks to get people into research, Edinburgh has all sorts of opportunities for research and industry so I recommend you firm it.


As for Sr Andrews, like Durham, it carries the name but as you say it's a small town so you would have to go to Edinburgh for excellent opportunities, in which case, you may as well go to Edinburgh. If I were you, I would firm Edinburgh and insure Durham. Additionally, one of my friends went to St Andrews open day and the technology and facility is so out of date.

Computer science is the flagship course at Edinburgh, particularly artificial intelligence. the city has beautiful architecture much like durham and the facility is nice as well from what I hear.

I'm glad my experience has been useful to someone 😂 very happy to help!

I think Durham is pretty excellent at giving you great opportunities - our computer science society invites a lot of companies a lot of the time which you can network with, there are lots of networking events in and out of societies multiple times a year, and also STEM careers/other careers fairs occur relatively often. They really want you to get a job, unsurprisingly 🙂 personally, I got a job through a grad scheme back in November without any networking, but obviously every little bit helps and even knowing your fellow peers who have graduated earlier or at the same time can give you a bit of a leg-up in the future (as evidenced by all of us being at least a little bit active on LinkedIn). Who knows, you may be able to find me on there because I know someone that you know!! 😀

Durham also has a careers portal through the uni (which doesn't include every single job post, but does include very valuable Durham-exclusive internships and jobs - yes, they exist, I applied to one actually 🙂 ). The careers service also gives you opportunities to conduct mock interviews with careers advisors, they can give you advice on what you might want to do in the future and can also review your CV and cover letter.

There is also Durham's flagship hackathon, Durhack, that happens annually (that I've been to every time throughout my 4 years here!) and there you can specifically find lots of big companies (not FAANG, but very respected and hard to get into companies) vying for your attention and with whose representatives you can network to your heart's content 🙂 so that's another opportunity at your feet! Oh yeah, and fintech loves engaging with Durham. Keep your eyes peeled, they do a lot of events with presentations throughout the year on campus and we also used to have Fintech Fortnight especially for celebrating these opportunities.

So, the only prior experience I had was GCSE CS and that taught me some very poor practices in python - which uni ironed out immediately in the first year. I'd say I struggled to learn other programming languages in other modules because I liked the simplicity of python, but I'm sure if you adore CS, you won't struggle too much. First and second year has lots of contact hours and that's also when you learn the most 'languages', but the later years focus on depth of practice and what you can actually do - mostly with AI. As I mentioned, if you really want to go in depth with AI while getting a taste of everything else, Durham's the place for you. They teach you Machine Learning in second year which is an entire year ahead of most other unis, and you will be very much ahead of anyone else in that regard.

Overall, whether you go to either uni, you'll probably end up in a great place, but this is my nuanced take on Durham based on my own degree 😀 I hope this gives you the advice you needed! If you need anything else, do not be afraid to ask further.

Yeah from the look of things st andrews is not looking good, I too went to the st andrews open day and saw the same outdated computers and facility, which was a tad bit off putting but I disregarded it, but now that you say it, that isn’t the best when attending university & once that holds such high regard.

I am happy for you & definitely think imperial is the best for you based on what you are claiming, I reckon it will provide what you’re after at university

For me Edinburgh is a tricky one, I look at ranking alot and it appears to be 12 sometimes with st As and Durham up top at 4 and 7 respectively. The guardian even says St As is number 1. QS however states Edinburgh to be 8 in the world, it’s all over the place & my parents aren’t even too interested in Edinburgh, i know the uni i go to should be based on my own opinion but my parents have some influence.

In terms of Durham, I love the atmosphere there, the collegiate system like Oxford, the types of
people who attend & the facilities available as one user has commented.

Not too sure.

Thank you for your response, really insightful, I’m a huge fan of long responses like these as I get a lot to reflect on, so yes it is most definitely useful!

[start]The idea that connections among peers at Durham could lead to opportunities for graduate schemes or jobs is truly exciting. It reflects Durham's prestige and the accessibility of such prospects. Do you believe your master's degree contributed to further opportunities? I am very keen on tech as a whole but also its financial prospects, I'm curious if it provided an advantage for you or others you know, or if Durham itself has given an extra edge without delving into specifics, as discussing salaries is sensitive.[/start]

[start]Additionally, I want internships in first year but don’t think my coding ability is yet up to par, what do you reccomend for me? Will I not get any if I can’t code just yet, will I be disregarded? And how can I do hackathons without it, since you did it all 4 years surely you attended without the experience initially thus it must be possible.[/start]

[start]I heard fintech is most lucrative and that there’s a misperception that FAANG is all the way up there, so the fact that fintech companies have their eyes set on Durham and their students is a huge plus and really enticing for me. Moreover, I am actually working on a project right now utilizing ai so the fact there’s machine learning/ai focus at Durham so early on serves great purpose for me[/start]

[start]Would defiantly love to connect with you on LinkedIn too! Thanks once again.[/start]

Yeah from the look of things st andrews is not looking good, I too went to the st andrews open day and saw the same outdated computers and facility, which was a tad bit off putting but I disregarded it, but now that you say it, that isn’t the best when attending university & once that holds such high regard.

I am happy for you & definitely think imperial is the best for you based on what you are claiming, I reckon it will provide what you’re after at university

For me Edinburgh is a tricky one, I look at ranking alot and it appears to be 12 sometimes with st As and Durham up top at 4 and 7 respectively. The guardian even says St As is number 1. QS however states Edinburgh to be 8 in the world, it’s all over the place & my parents aren’t even too interested in Edinburgh, i know the uni i go to should be based on my own opinion but my parents have some influence.

In terms of Durham, I love the atmosphere there, the collegiate system like Oxford, the types of
people who attend & the facilities available as one user has commented.

Not too sure.

If your coding ability is not up to par, I would definitely recommend doing loads of courses over summer for programming because the hackathons that Durham organise will be people with some, if not loads, of programming experience and this is also true for internships. By not learning programming, you will just limit the internship opportunities available to you, not to mention that the lecturers will assume you have a rudimentary programming basics. They may cover some of the basics but not nearly as enough as what is fully required to understand the topic in hand as they will assume it is known knowledge. This is a thing at all top universities (I have friends at Oxford and Durham who told me about this).

If you want to get into fintech, the opportunity is good because the economics department at durham is well regarded.

Additionally (this shouldn't be considered as the major metric for making a decision) but I asked ChatGPT and it indirectly told me to firm Imperial and if I am confident that I will get 3 A*s, to insure either Edin or Manchester otherwise to insure Durham. Ask it and see what it says, You will need to send your offer conditions with it.

All I will say is that if you are after reputation, I would go for Edinburgh. Otherwise, I would say trust where you think you would fit in. You don't need some random person on the internet to completely sway your decision. Just based off your liking towards Durham , I would say firm it. the facility is good and industry connections are decent. plus you plan to come to Imperial or some other top institution to do further study anyway so if anything, that means the employment post-uni may be short term and you will have amazing opportunity for jobs post further study.

Good luck with your decisions. How have you received a Durham offer so early?? I thought it would be imperial decision holding me back but now it's just Durham.

Thank you for your response, really insightful, I’m a huge fan of long responses like these as I get a lot to reflect on, so yes it is most definitely useful!

[start]The idea that connections among peers at Durham could lead to opportunities for graduate schemes or jobs is truly exciting. It reflects Durham's prestige and the accessibility of such prospects. Do you believe your master's degree contributed to further opportunities? I am very keen on tech as a whole but also its financial prospects, I'm curious if it provided an advantage for you or others you know, or if Durham itself has given an extra edge without delving into specifics, as discussing salaries is sensitive.[/start]

[start]Additionally, I want internships in first year but don’t think my coding ability is yet up to par, what do you reccomend for me? Will I not get any if I can’t code just yet, will I be disregarded? And how can I do hackathons without it, since you did it all 4 years surely you attended without the experience initially thus it must be possible.[/start]

[start]I heard fintech is most lucrative and that there’s a misperception that FAANG is all the way up there, so the fact that fintech companies have their eyes set on Durham and their students is a huge plus and really enticing for me. Moreover, I am actually working on a project right now utilizing ai so the fact there’s machine learning/ai focus at Durham so early on serves great purpose for me[/start]

[start]Would defiantly love to connect with you on LinkedIn too! Thanks once again.[/start]

I'm glad that a long response was helpful!

I'd say yes, definitely, my masters has only helped. The Masters degree was mostly a 'I might as well do it, I'm a home student so it's free', as if I left and did it anywhere else, I'd need to pay (which is something I or my family cannot afford). Obviously, this goes for any masters degree you might receive but, in my final assessment centre before I got my grad job offer, I was the only candidate with a Masters degree and I feel like that might have given me an edge over others (obviously, my performance factored into it probably as well, but I cannot deny that it may have made a difference). The curriculum in the Durham integrated masters is a bit of a hit or miss imo (I don't like a lot of modules, while some I liked quite a lot), so it really depends on the person - a lot of my friends graduated in third year and moved onto grad jobs, masters degrees in other unis or PhDs as well, but I 100% know I'd hate a PhD so I'm very happy to gain the upper hand over others when competing for positions by doing a masters in a uni I already know, where everyone knows who I am as well. I'm also pretty sure that on average, masters degrees result in higher earnings over a person's life than a bachelors, but I'd recommend having a look online about that and taking that with a grain of salt. But yes, I definitely think that a masters is a great way of standing out when applying for jobs, as most end up finishing with a bachelors. In addition, I feel like a masters has let me become more focused and mature over my last year, as it is much harder than a 3rd year but gives me much more time to organise myself in, than filling my schedule with contact hours and not giving me a choice. Most of my friends having left also has given me space to breathe and focus on finishing my degree as best as I can, since third year can feel super busy on all fronts (and also, gave me breathing room in third year since it was not my last year, and any mistakes I made I could still correct this year!).

Internships in first year are extremely hard to get. I didn't apply in my first year (since I was terrible at coding lmao) but I don't regret it at all. However, I do know a friend currently in his first year who is having a tough time applying because the interviews and application cycles are similarly demanding to actual grad schemes (which is super scary if you ask me). Unless you're an absolute coding whiz or have loads of luck, it's best to save your efforts for second year, which is when most people get an internship (or at least many in my year did!). Spend first year enjoying your degree, figuring out what you like and then aim for stuff in second year having practiced/made projects that will make you stand out. Also, once you get to uni, make a LinkedIn if you have not already, and make sure to keep your CV up to date 🙂 it will help you out later!

You could alternatively apply for spring weeks, which many banks put out for first years around easter, which are little taster experiences usually in fintech designed for people who haven't coded as much as needed for the internships - they are still super competitive, but it probably won't hurt to apply for them!

About hackathons - the Durhacks are primarily made to have a very open environment. You absolutely do not need to be a great, or even good, coder. My first and second durhacks were very much 'let me have a stab at it' and whenever they advertise their free tickets, it's always underlined by 'we are open to attendees with all or none of the coding experience'. I actually happened to win in a category once, when I was still a relatively poor coder - but I got myself into a brilliant team and had some really good ideas which I put my full effort into working towards! It's just a really fun allnighter with the opportunity of working on something great, both to appeal to companies but also to test your own skills against very open challenges.

Yeah, although a lot of Durham students go to Amazon (I think, at least - you can easily verify by checking Linkedin, but I know a few), fintech is a much larger presence in the uni. If you're starting a project with AI THIS early, then you'll surely enjoy the degree and the amount of different spins it puts on AI and adjacent fields. It will also definitely help with catching the attention of recruiters once you're in the application cycle.

I'd love to as well! I'm not sure if Student Room has a PM feature, but if it does, I will send you a link to my profile. It's been lovely talking to you and I hope this has helped you out make a good choice!

Good luck with your decision too! Yeah I have no clue, I read Durham is notorious for late responses but I got it a month after applying, I was shocked to say the least.

It’s funny, it’s looking like I might have to change the question to Durham V Edinburgh, don’t belive st Andrews to be as competitive.

Definitely agree, I am using this forum to help give me a more informed decision, I spoke with my career advisor who I am personally close with, my parents and my friends and this is a sort of last resort, definitely utilizing all responses to generate my choice.

Truthfully I’m not too sure where I’d fit in, I’m a sociable person so I can see myself adjusting but based off of intuition it seems as though the essence I gather from Durham seems to be what I want to be a part of and be around, you know?