Is there a difference between homosexuality and incest? Watch

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perkyDani
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#61
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#61
well, if judging objectively, i guess incest and homosexuality shud both be on the same scale of moral correctness providing no children are produced-as that has negative impact on another being, the reasons that more people are totally disgusted by incest is probably because of social upbringing, religion etc and the fact that incest is so uncommon so still considered taboo, but hey, there was a time when homosexuality was thought about the exact same way, so maybe incest is on the same path to social acceptance as homosexualtiy was,
but even knowing that i still feel the same repulsion to incest as most ppl
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naivesincerity
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#62
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(Original post by fishpaste)
I know the obvious differene (=P), I mean in terms of morals etc. Logically speaking. Assuming homosexualiy is morally sound, does this imply that incest is morally sound? Or is there a fundamental difference which makes it immoral?

I'd say, yes, incest between a male/female is dangerous, for any children they might accidentally end up bearing, and there's a tendany for it to be an abusive relationship in many cases such as say father/daughter. But I struggle to see any reason why say, two sisters who for whatever reason decided they wanted to get it on would be any of my business.

WTF???? :eek:
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naivesincerity
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[QUOTE=jamieuk20]But heterosexual couples have the capacity to reproduce and therefore it's a little irrelevant whether they engage in anal sex or not.

It would be against human nature for Incestuous couples to reproduce and homosexual couples cannot.....Jamie if you are saying that both are wrong
because of not being appropriate for reproduction, then why is anal sex between a man and a woman not wrong? Thats not for reproduction.. The argument i guess is not about whether both are wrong, but which is more wrong..i believe most peoples instincts would clearly tell them incest is more wrong..i don't have any idea why in the case of male-on male/female-female incest as its not about reproductive issues.....

Also, what do you class as homosexuality? Is a man thinking of another man when he masturbates..or speaking to another man about women while he masturbates? or speaking to another man about women and touching a man at the same time.? is it anal sex? etc etc

Incest became taboo for survival of the species, and the knowledge that if it continues, mutations would be more and more likely to be repeated and deformaties would occur.....but i suppose you could argue that when sex can be with contraceptives, or mutual masturbation etc, incestuous couples can practice with no danger.......but it would seem deeply odd just becasue i suppose sexual desire reflects reproductive desire, thats why its thee, so you should be genetically programmed to not desire your relatives.....It would be very interesting to look at studys of people who have step-siblings and desire each other
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Howard
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#64
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#64
Homosexuality is normally a game for just two players whereas incest is a game that the whole family can join in with.
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VanBen
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#65
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(Original post by fishpaste)
I know the obvious differene (=P), I mean in terms of morals etc. Logically speaking. Assuming homosexualiy is morally sound, does this imply that incest is morally sound? Or is there a fundamental difference which makes it immoral?

I'd say, yes, incest between a male/female is dangerous, for any children they might accidentally end up bearing, and there's a tendany for it to be an abusive relationship in many cases such as say father/daughter. But I struggle to see any reason why say, two sisters who for whatever reason decided they wanted to get it on would be any of my business.

Incest is regarded as being a-moral to the extent it interferes with transfer of genes. Procreation of two heterosexual people of the same bloodline can result in biological/psychological deficiencies with the child, and it's future relationships. Due to these (generally biological) considerations, incest is regarded as immoral (and illegal). In the case of homosexual relationships, logically speaking, these reasons don't seem to exist any longer, so that seems to be of no problem. However, since homosexuality has remained in the dark for so long, and was considered immoral for a long time itself, I would assume that homosexuality, combined with "incest" would not evoke social enthousiasm. In other cultures, for example the Etoro - tribe, homosexual behavior with elder is a necessary step for boys to become men. Problems like these are best looked at form a perspective as broad as possible, instead of looking at it within our own cultural predispositions.
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VanBen
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I wanted to say something more about morality in general. What is considered moral or immoral is very much a specific thing to a specific culture. Morality, itself a more concrete interpretation of natural law principles, is something a society expresses in order to guarantee social cohesion and the "proper" function of that society. Thus, morals do evolve, to a large extent, with the evolution of a society as a whole, however it can be argued that there are some more critical moral principles, such as the precept not to kill (which is in fact also essential for the survival of a society). However, morality in the western world has been translated in religious terms (catholic church) in the course of history. In this context they can be of a more instrumental-political nature. I strongly feel that arguments such as "sex is meant for procreation" (to give an utterly stereotypical example) are colored by this religious context and still carry the sediments of the historical purpose the Catholic Church devised these moral principles for. contemporary western society is traited by cultural and religious diversity, and there, an interpretation of morality like this will fall short. Human rights doctrines, for example, present us with a more general and neutral framework of basic values to guarantee cohesion and a functioning society insofar they are not so much colored by specific religious considerations or ideology, and can function as a framework in which different cultures and religions (or self-invented transcedental inclinations) can flourish side by side, respecting one another. This is a certain ideology as well, but this time expressed in the legal world in stead of the moral/religious world. An expressive acknowledgement of the acceptance of higher order principles in law can be found in the De Martens clause (in the field of humanitarian law).
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NDGAARONDI
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#67
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(Original post by VanBen)
Incest is regarded as being a-moral to the extent it interferes with transfer of genes. Procreation of two heterosexual people of the same bloodline can result in biological/psychological deficiencies with the child, and it's future relationships. Due to these (generally biological) considerations, incest is regarded as immoral (and illegal).
So if two people incestuously indulge in sexual activity with each other but do not procreate is should then be legal as the science cannot provide a justification as there is no procreation.
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VanBen
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#68
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
So if two people incestuously indulge in sexual activity with each other but do not procreate is should then be legal as the science cannot provide a justification as there is no procreation.
Not at all, scientific grounds are the main arguement, but next to that scientific arguement, lots of others can be found of a more social nature (e.g. family values).
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by VanBen)
...lots of others can be found of a more social nature (e.g. family values).
True but the most common reasoning for outlawing incest is the scientific one in my experience. Then people will refer to morality and not realising its links with natural law and religion and...:rolleyes:
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VanBen
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That's why we need academics
Could you specify your last post a bit more though?
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NDGAARONDI
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Well people often advocate a view with reasoning that they will not use in other situations, consistency really. For example quoting holy text for one thing but not another etc.
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VanBen
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
Well people often advocate a view with reasoning that they will not use in other situations, consistency really. For example quoting holy text for one thing but not another etc.
That is, unfortunately, very true. However, people in academia are supposed not to show a similar degree of inconsistency and logically/empirically found their findings. This is, however, another debate I think
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NDGAARONDI
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#73
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(Original post by VanBen)
This is, however, another debate I think
It is.
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aleathiel
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#74
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in homosexuality there will be no children
so just because im a lesbian it means i wont have children?
err i will just not by having sex with a man thats all, plenty of gay and lesbian couples have children these days not just through adoption but other ways as well..
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Beekeeper
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#75
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What a stupid post.
the fact that 4 people have voted that homosexuality is the same as incest is worrying. :confused:
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nosos
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#76
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(Original post by beekeeper_)
What a stupid post.
the fact that 4 people have voted that homosexuality is the same as incest is worrying. :confused:
It's not the same as, rather it's morally equivilent. Perversion is perversion at the end of the day.
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naivesincerity
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#77
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(Original post by nosos)
It's not the same as, rather it's morally equivilent. Perversion is perversion at the end of the day.
Thats an odd comment...
i happen to think Homosexuality as defined by mutual masturbation oral sex or whatever,is nowhere near as peverse as Incest, surely most people's instincts would tell them that.....
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Beekeeper
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#78
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(Original post by naivesincerity)
Thats an odd comment...
i happen to think Homosexuality as defined by mutual masturbation oral sex or whatever,is nowhere near as peverse as Incest, surely most people's instincts would tell them that.....
I'd agree with you there. Incest is taking things to a whole new level. Homosexuality can be seen as 'distasteful', but incest is just perverted.
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Fluxy
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#79
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Your comment should say is there a difference between any form of sex and incest, not gay sex.
My conscience says that if consensual sex happens between any two adults then it is not my position to say what they can and cannot do.
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Profesh
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#80
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#80
(Original post by beekeeper_)
I'd agree with you there. Incest is taking things to a whole new level. Homosexuality can be seen as 'distasteful', but incest is just perverted.
:rolleyes:

Incest can be seen as distasteful; but homosexuality is just perverted.
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