Master thief at the age of 3?
Would anyone here argue that it is possible for a 3-4 year old to have the reasoning skills that would allow him to steal is a sophisticated manner. The fact is my has friend has told me that when he was in nursery school, aged around 3-4, he would pull of sometimes difficult thefts.
Most of the time he would cunningly sneak toys away from other children, then when he was collected he would drop the toys in the parking lot and pretend that he "found" them. My friend studies chemistry at UCL, so he is what we would deem an intelligent person. I have no reason to belive he is lying over this, however could a 3 year old have the capacity to actually plan a theft in detail?
Most of the time he would cunningly sneak toys away from other children, then when he was collected he would drop the toys in the parking lot and pretend that he "found" them. My friend studies chemistry at UCL, so he is what we would deem an intelligent person. I have no reason to belive he is lying over this, however could a 3 year old have the capacity to actually plan a theft in detail?
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Children at the age of 3-4 are basically going through a conceptual shift in which they develop a theory of mind. This is the age they start being able to pass very simple perspective taking tests. The theft that you described demands quite an advanced level of theory of mind that a child at the age of four would be very unlikely to posess.
4-5 yes, but 3 is a bit too young...
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
Children at the age of 3-4 are basically going through a conceptual shift in which they develop a theory of mind. This is the age they start being able to pass very simple perspective taking tests. The theft that you described demands quite an advanced level of theory of mind that a child at the age of four would be very unlikely to posess.
If that's when people develop theory of mind, does that mean an autism diagnosis before they were three or four doesn't have much weight?
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
Children at the age of 3-4 are basically going through a conceptual shift in which they develop a theory of mind. This is the age they start being able to pass very simple perspective taking tests. The theft that you described demands quite an advanced level of theory of mind that a child at the age of four would be very unlikely to posess.
He says he was around 3-4, and at the very most 5. The fact that he pretended to find the toys makes it seem quite advanced in my opinion, and whole planning of it too.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by TheSownRose
If that's when people develop theory of mind, does that mean an autism diagnosis before they were three or four doesn't have much weight?
Practitioners would be well aware of this and would be focusing on the other manifestations of autism.
That said, the older the patient the easier it would be to make a diagnosis as their behaviour would be more differentiated and diverse. You would have more avenues by which to investigate the diagnosis.
Original post by MagnificentFuhrer
He says he was around 3-4, and at the very most 5. The fact that he pretended to find the toys makes it seem quite advanced in my opinion, and whole planning of it too.
I would find a 5yr old doing that to be more believable.
I have a three year old, and she doesnt really understand the concept of people owning things and therefore people stealing things.
I also have a 5 year old and he possibly understands this more, but still, I think it highly unlikely that he would be able to come up with such an elaborate plan.
My 7 year old however... has the brains of a criminal mastermind...
I also have a 5 year old and he possibly understands this more, but still, I think it highly unlikely that he would be able to come up with such an elaborate plan.
My 7 year old however... has the brains of a criminal mastermind...
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
Practitioners would be well aware of this and would be focusing on the other manifestations of autism.
That said, the older the patient the easier it would be to make a diagnosis as their behaviour would be more differentiated and diverse. You would have more avenues by which to investigate the diagnosis.
That said, the older the patient the easier it would be to make a diagnosis as their behaviour would be more differentiated and diverse. You would have more avenues by which to investigate the diagnosis.
Does it always follow that older is easier in autism, or is there a maximum age of reliable diagnosis?
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
I would find a 5yr old doing that to be more believable.
Does it show a possible high level of intelligence? He does believe he was around 3-4 however.
Original post by TheSownRose
Does it always follow that older is easier in autism, or is there a maximum age of reliable diagnosis?
I don't think there is an age in which reliability decreases. It increases with age but probably plateaus in early adulthood.
Original post by MagnificentFuhrer
Does it show a possible high level of intelligence? He does believe he was around 3-4 however.
Not really. ToM correlates weakly with IQ as far as I am aware. More importantly, however, IQ is very unstable at such a young age. A high childhood IQ really cannot predict adult IQ.
(edited 13 years ago)
).Original post by GodspeedGehenna
I don't think there is an age in which reliability decreases. It increases with age but probably plateaus in early adulthood.
Not really. ToM correlates weakly with IQ as far as I am aware. More importantly, however, IQ is very unstable at such a young age. A high childhood IQ really cannot predict adult IQ.
Not really. ToM correlates weakly with IQ as far as I am aware. More importantly, however, IQ is very unstable at such a young age. A high childhood IQ really cannot predict adult IQ.
Lol, so he's not some genius then!?
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
I don't think there is an age in which reliability decreases. It increases with age but probably plateaus eventually.
Sorry for so many questions - last two, I promise!
How would someone about nineteen or twenty go about getting tested? Is it in their best interest to?
Original post by MagnificentFuhrer
Lol, so he's not some genius then!?
Not neccesarily. Childhood IQ is notoriously unpredictive of adult IQ.
Original post by TheSownRose
Sorry for so many questions - last two, I promise!
How would someone about nineteen or twenty go about getting tested? Is it in their best interest to?
How would someone about nineteen or twenty go about getting tested? Is it in their best interest to?
a GP would be capable of diagnosing or referring to a psych.
A diagnosis may provide closure, but on the otherhand there arn't really any miracle cures that a diagnosis would give you access to. It may help in obtaining institutional disability support though.
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
Not neccesarily. Childhood IQ is notoriously unpredictive of adult IQ.
Lol ok. If he was indeed 3 at the time though, then that would show an advanced mind? I mean planning a theft and then planning how get with away it seems pretty impressive. If a child just stole toys and then threw them away and never played with them, then what would that suggest?
Sorry for sounding a bit basic here.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by My Life
Yes happened to my sister, always stealing. Then my mum told her off, she's 4. Then she didn't do it. Come on 1st day at nursery find something pick it up, but making plans is weird. lol
Yes but that's just what children do, not plan thefts. Planning shows advancement IMHO.
Original post by MagnificentFuhrer
Lol ok. If he was indeed 3 at the time though, then that would show an advanced mind? I mean planning a theft and then planning how get with away it seems pretty impressive. If a child just stole toys and then threw them away and never played with them, what would that suggest?
Sorry for osunding a bit basic
Sorry for osunding a bit basic
If it was an accurate recalling of events then yes, it would show an advanced theory of mind for that age. Doesn't neccesarily mean they were intelligent though.
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