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For all you anti gun hoplophobes on here

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Possibly better gun, more likely better at using it then the average person... Because they are criminals.

bull****, if someone conceal carries in the us you can bet they hit the range often, and even if they don't they've still got a better chance of stopping their attacker with a gun

Reply 281

Good bloke

Original post by Hardballer

thats only because we haven't had a genocide maniac in power here! it could happen, and it has happened in countless other democracies around the world

I think most of us would rather take our chances with the ballot box than allow people like you to run wild with weapons.

Reply 282

Hardballer

Original post by Good bloke

I don't recollect you arguing with anyone, never mind defeating them in the argument. The best you could do was to pop up to liken guns to cars. My fear of firearms, by the way, is by no means irrational: they are intended to kill and injure people and engender fear, aren't they?

they're inanimate objects that do nothing by themselves. you sound like a grade a hoplophobe

Reply 283

Hardballer

Original post by Good bloke

I think most of us would rather take our chances with the ballot box than allow people like you to run wild with weapons.

how am I running wild? I think I've told you countless times on this thread that I own firearms yet haven't run wild with them. you need to learn to make a good argument rather than spouting random crap

Reply 284

FXL5

Original post by Good bloke

My fear of firearms, by the way, is by no means irrational: they are intended to kill and injure people and engender fear, aren't they?

No, they're not. They're intended to put small-to-medium sized holes in anything at long distance - nothing more, nothing less. They've been used for mining, gathering food, punching little circles out of paper, cutting down trees, and a variety of other things. Yes, they are often USED to kill people, and also often used (generally by the same people) to cause fear, but this is NOT what they are 'intended' for. That's a bit like saying water is 'intended' for drinking.

Firearms are not scary. They are not malicious. They are tools, and like many tools can be lethal to human beings. That's no reason to make the rest of their uses more difficult.

Reply 285

Good bloke

Original post by FXL5

but this is NOT what they are 'intended' for.

Er, no. Firearms were invented specifically for military purposes. The fact that other uses have been found for the technology is irrelevant. Their original use was to inspiring fear and to kill.

Reply 286

Hardballer

Original post by Good bloke

Er, no. Firearms were invented specifically for military purposes. The fact that other uses have been found for the technology is irrelevant. Their original use was to inspiring fear and to kill.

depends what type of firearm entirely, double barrel 12 gauge is not in any way for military use

Reply 287

Good bloke

Original post by Hardballer

you sound like a grade a hoplophobe

And you sound like a phronemophobe.

Reply 288

Hardballer

Original post by Good bloke

And you sound like a phronemophobe.

oh really? just because I'm coming out with all the rational ideas and you're arguments are fuelled by emotion and hoplophobia

Reply 289

Hardballer

well Gwrx I couldn't have put it better myself, people never learn from history, the many dictatorships and the mass genocides in the 20th centuary following disarmnament are the biggest reason to retain the right to bear arms and above all the freedom to defend yourself and partake in any shooting related sport you enjoy. Sure societys with more gun ownership may have more gun related crime, but it doesn't nessecairly mean a higher overall murder rate and that murder rate still is only a tiny fraction of the amount of genocidal murders following disarmnament in dictatorships. Next time somebody says look at America, you say to them, look at cambodia, china, ussr. 11,000 gun deaths a year in america where they have the right to bear arms? or 2 millions deaths in 2 years following the genocide by khmer rouge after disarming the populace in cambodia.

Reply 290

dennisraymondsmith

gun laws are cool as it is...if you get found with one you will get max 5 years

Reply 291

Good bloke

Original post by GwrxVurfer

Your fear is irrational. You seem to think that they have minds of their own. Switzerland's laws mandate that every soldier keeps his service weapon accessible, so this means that they can keep it at home, in the car etc. Despite this freedom for citizens to bear arms, the murder rate in Switzerland is one of the lowest in the world. So the link you try to draw between gun ownership, and gun crime, hasn't worked. We can all attempt to guess why their murder rate (and indeed, crime rate in general) is low, but personally I think it's because of the deterrent. Even if you yourself own a gun, you aren't really going to attempt burglary knowing the victim is armed. From the way you write, I have come to the conclusion you have absolutely no firearms experience whatsoever. It's easy (and predictable) for someone without firearms experience to say that a burglar would "just shoot the homeowner before he got to his gun". You make this assumption, but based on what? If you think you can break into a darkened house that you don't know the layout of, find the homeowner, and shoot them, all before they even have a chance to draw a defensive weapon, then all I can say is you're going to have a very big surprise when you go around robbing houses with a Glock.

Are you aware how much guns cost? Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but if someone is going to kill you, are they going to do it with a gun they paid hundreds (at the least) for, which they will then have to destroy to stop any ballistic evidence being gathered? Or will they do it with a £5 kitchen knife from Tesco that achieves the same thing?

I've tried to understand your point of view, and explained my logic. But I couldn't really understand a part of your last post, so I want to ask you a question about it - If a Jew in Nazi Germany had used his pistol to kill a Gestapo officer trying to arrest him for his crimes, what would your opinion of this Jew, specifically his use of a pistol, be?

You are far too obsessed with the romance of overturning dreadful regimes and defending people from robbers. The real world in Britain in the 21st century isn't like that at all. It is preposterous. If you took the trouble to read my posts you'll see that I have made a major point of wanting to avoid accidental gunshot deaths caused misuse of legally-held weapons which are a very large cause of deaths in the USA.

All this deflection about guns not being sentient is silly. They are an accident waiting to happen, as is borne out by the American statistics that I quoted earlier. And illegal guns are, I'm informed, very inexpensive indeed.

Reply 292

Emaemmaemily

Original post by Hardballer

bull****, if someone conceal carries in the us you can bet they hit the range often, and even if they don't they've still got a better chance of stopping their attacker with a gun

You seriously don't seem to get it.
If you are attacked, it's usually by surprise, meaning they will have a gun to your head before you even know to draw yours. You will not escape.
If they attack you with a knife, there's much more chance of escaping...

Reply 293

beecher

firearms are tools

just like the people who want to use them

Reply 294

Emaemmaemily

Original post by GwrxVurfer

Again, you could also have an accident with a car if you chose to act recklessly with it.

Just don't put your finger on the trigger and only ever point the gun at something you intend to destroy. That cuts out your accidental deaths.

It's not that simple.
Cars are quite useful and almost essential to life these days, and aren't designed for harm anything. They are legal because the benefits outweigh the possibility of someone getting hurt.
Guns are created for nothing other then killing. (I'm not talking about sport guns, because those are legal here anyway). There is no good reason for them being allowed.
Making guns legal just arms the criminals and attackers better.

Reply 295

Hardballer

Original post by dennisraymondsmith

gun laws are cool as it is...if you get found with one you will get max 5 years

depends if its illegal or held on a certificate

Reply 296

Hardballer

Original post by Emaemmaemily

no! not nessecarily, what if you can't outrun them??????

Reply 297

Hardballer

Original post by beecher

firearms are tools

just like the people who want to use them

oh just stfu

Reply 298

Emaemmaemily

Original post by Hardballer

no! not nessecarily, what if you can't outrun them??????

I said it's easier, not garunteed.
At least if they don't have a gun, you have a chance to run away. If they have a gun, they can shoot you as soon as you move, or as you're running off... they'd have several chances.
You're much more likely to escape and survive if there are no guns involved.