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I think a televised debate would swing it for a lot of people.
Cameron knows he would lose the debate, hence he is not agreeing to one with Alex Salmond.
Original post by vespa
northern ireland isn't exactly a stellar example of how good it is to force people to remain in the union.


Nobody is forcing NI to stay. I'm sure most Britons would be happy, if they voted for union with Ireland, for that to happen. The fact is that a majority wish to remain where they are, and that includes many catholics.
Original post by Choo.choo
They don't know their backside from their elbow?
Fear?
They can't see the woods for the trees?


Or it could even be that they, like the Union?
In Scotland there is only 54MPs, only one of these is part of the conservative party, yet we have a conservative government. This just means that any time the Scottish MPs want to do something, they can be completely outvoted. For example, the introduction of the bedroom tax was voted against by 95% of Scottish MPs, but it went ahead anyway? Every election, the Scots vote for Labour or SNP candidates, but we managed to land ourselves a conservative government, which is completely unfair. We shouldn't be forced into a position with a government we didn't vote for in almost complete control of our country just because we have a smaller population. The only way I can currently see to resolve this matter is for Scotland to become an independent country. However, Alex Salmond is a knob, and I would hate to have him as president, but if Scotland does become independent an election will be held for a new president. After all this **** about the referendum, I doubt we'll vote for Salmond.
That's my view on the political side of it, but I'm not sure if Scotland's economy will stand firm. We will get the North Sea oil, which would create a large income for Scotland, and even after the oil has been used, we could sell on the land. However, Scotland's spending is very high, mostly because of the free tuition, free healthcare, and Alex Salmond blowing millions on silly projects that will never work and stupid ****ing road signs. Recently, near where I live, a new ferry terminal was built. It cost 7 million pounds, and noone bothered to check whether the ferry fitted the terminal. So now, we have a huge fancy ****ing car park and no ferry.
Voila.
Original post by winchester69
We shouldn't be forced into a position with a government we didn't vote for in almost complete control of our country just because we have a smaller population.


Presumably you'll be happy for the Shetlands to use the same argument and not be part of Scotland?


We will get the North Sea oil, which would create a large income for Scotland, and even after the oil has been used, we could sell on the land.


Eh? You do know that the oil is under the sea, don't you?
Original post by winchester69
In Scotland there is only 54MPs, only one of these is part of the conservative party, yet we have a conservative government. This just means that any time the Scottish MPs want to do something, they can be completely outvoted. For example, the introduction of the bedroom tax was voted against by 95% of Scottish MPs, but it went ahead anyway? Every election, the Scots vote for Labour or SNP candidates, but we managed to land ourselves a conservative government, which is completely unfair. We shouldn't be forced into a position with a government we didn't vote for in almost complete control of our country just because we have a smaller population. The only way I can currently see to resolve this matter is for Scotland to become an independent country. However, Alex Salmond is a knob, and I would hate to have him as president, but if Scotland does become independent an election will be held for a new president. After all this **** about the referendum, I doubt we'll vote for Salmond.
That's my view on the political side of it, but I'm not sure if Scotland's economy will stand firm. We will get the North Sea oil, which would create a large income for Scotland, and even after the oil has been used, we could sell on the land. However, Scotland's spending is very high, mostly because of the free tuition, free healthcare, and Alex Salmond blowing millions on silly projects that will never work and stupid ****ing road signs. Recently, near where I live, a new ferry terminal was built. It cost 7 million pounds, and noone bothered to check whether the ferry fitted the terminal. So now, we have a huge fancy ****ing car park and no ferry.
Voila.


Independence is not about Alex Salmond; it is about deciding who should make the decisions for the future of Scotland. I know which one I would choose.
Original post by meenu89
Or it could even be that they, like the Union?


Would you like to enlighten me by outlining the arguments presented by the unionists which explain why we are "Better Together"?
Personally, I think the splitting of the union presents a stronger case.
Original post by Choo.choo
Would you like to enlighten me by outlining the arguments presented by the unionists which explain why we are "Better Together"?
Personally, I think the splitting of the union presents a stronger case.


Shock horror, independence supporter thinks Independent Scotland would be better off!
Original post by Choo.choo
Would you like to enlighten me by outlining the arguments presented by the unionists which explain why we are "Better Together"?
Personally, I think the splitting of the union presents a stronger case.


Read http://bettertogether.net/pages/the-ve-case
Original post by winchester69
In Scotland there is only 54MPs, only one of these is part of the conservative party, yet we have a conservative government. This just means that any time the Scottish MPs want to do something, they can be completely outvoted. For example, the introduction of the bedroom tax was voted against by 95% of Scottish MPs, but it went ahead anyway? Every election, the Scots vote for Labour or SNP candidates, but we managed to land ourselves a conservative government, which is completely unfair. We shouldn't be forced into a position with a government we didn't vote for in almost complete control of our country just because we have a smaller population. The only way I can currently see to resolve this matter is for Scotland to become an independent country. However, Alex Salmond is a knob, and I would hate to have him as president, but if Scotland does become independent an election will be held for a new president. After all this **** about the referendum, I doubt we'll vote for Salmond.
That's my view on the political side of it, but I'm not sure if Scotland's economy will stand firm. We will get the North Sea oil, which would create a large income for Scotland, and even after the oil has been used, we could sell on the land. However, Scotland's spending is very high, mostly because of the free tuition, free healthcare, and Alex Salmond blowing millions on silly projects that will never work and stupid ****ing road signs. Recently, near where I live, a new ferry terminal was built. It cost 7 million pounds, and noone bothered to check whether the ferry fitted the terminal. So now, we have a huge fancy ****ing car park and no ferry.
Voila.


The 'Scottish' MPs voted for tuition fees for England in 1997 while they couldn't do the same for Scotland.
The alex salmond point does my head in. Why can't people grasp the fact that this choice is way bigger than the fact they dislike alex salmod becauses he appears 'smug'.

Firstly blair jenkins is head of the yes campaign. You know the campaign to win independence.

Secondly salmond has said time and time again that scottish elections will go as planned in 2016. Meaning people could vote for someone else. You know... democracy and all.

I have had people saying they will vote no because alex salmond is a dictator and they don't want the SNP running scotland forevever after independence... I mean how ill informed can you get?
Original post by 1tartanarmy
The alex salmond point does my head in. Why can't people grasp the fact that this choice is way bigger than the fact they dislike alex salmod becauses he appears 'smug'.

Firstly blair jenkins is head of the yes campaign. You know the campaign to win independence.

Secondly salmond has said time and time again that scottish elections will go as planned in 2016. Meaning people could vote for someone else. You know... democracy and all.

I have had people saying they will vote no because alex salmond is a dictator and they don't want the SNP running scotland forevever after independence... I mean how ill informed can you get?


Thanks tartanarmy. Why are people on here so unable to see that the SNP are the only party who care about the people of Scotland? Nobody has yet argued that point.
Funny thing is, the 'Better Together' camp have admitted that Scotland could survive as an independent nation.
Both David Cameron and Alistair Darling have said this is so.
Reply 3973
Original post by Choo.choo
Funny thing is, the 'Better Together' camp have admitted that Scotland could survive as an independent nation.
Both David Cameron and Alistair Darling have said this is so.


Of course it can - why-ever wouldn't it? Pretty much anything can survive as an independent nation.

Isn't that why they're called 'better together' not 'Independent Scotland is DOOMED!'?

The question is would life be better. So far 60-70% of Scots say think no...
Reply 3974
Original post by meenu89
The 'Scottish' MPs voted for tuition fees for England in 1997 while they couldn't do the same for Scotland.


Weren't they whipped to do so...?
Reply 3975
Original post by 1tartanarmy
Secondly salmond has said time and time again that scottish elections will go as planned in 2016. Meaning people could vote for someone else. You know... democracy and all.

I have had people saying they will vote no because alex salmond is a dictator and they don't want the SNP running scotland forevever after independence... I mean how ill informed can you get?


Why does Salmond feel the need to say that 'time and again'...?

Surely thats telling...
Reply 3976
Original post by Choo.choo
Thanks tartanarmy. Why are people on here so unable to see that the SNP are the only party who care about the people of Scotland? Nobody has yet argued that point.


How about because its a pointless argument, its entirely subjective.

If I were to suggest:
'Representatives of constituents care about their constituents and constituents decide to vote for people who most care about them'

Then somehow you'd disagree, or disagree with voters who decide that isn't someone from the SNP

Taking your suggestion to its illogical extension, the EDL are the only party who care about the people of England.
It's not about the SNP or the great desire for nationalism, its about Scots being sick to the teeth of being bled dry and having unwanted governments stripping the wealth, respect and pride out of our country for their own ends. Its as simple as this. I would rather put my faith in a Scottish government, governing my country
Original post by Quady
Of course it can - why-ever wouldn't it? Pretty much anything can survive as an independent nation.

Isn't that why they're called 'better together' not 'Independent Scotland is DOOMED!'?

The question is would life be better. So far 60-70% of Scots say think no...


How would life not be better?
I have just said why I think so in my previous post.
Original post by Choo.choo
I think a televised debate would swing it for a lot of people.
Cameron knows he would lose the debate, hence he is not agreeing to one with Alex Salmond.


Salmond would turn any debate into 'he's not from round here.' You've also forgotten that Salmond wanted a Scottish referendum by the people of Scotland, for the people of Scotland. He's got that.involving Cameron in a debate isn't what Salmond wanted.

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