Is an Anglo union between UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand a good idea?

I wish it could happen. I don't even count people from the Old Commonwealth (including Ireland) as foreigners, we have so much more in common with these nations than our European neighbours. I also read somewhere its 15% cheaper to trade with these nations due to the shared language and similar legal/trade systems.

But it wont happen, we are too far in with the EU now. One of our conditions on joining (bloody French) was abandoning our old allies in the Commonwealth. I despise D'Gualle for this, its not like there's over one million Commonwealth men buried in Europe for the freedom of your sodding country.

Reply 21

Poem boy

OP

8

Original post by Invictus_88

It looks racist because it includes New Zealand, but not India.

In reality, we already have the Commonwealth. It's not at the moment really able to function as an improved version of the European Union (nor should it, in its bureaucratic addictions at least) but there can - I think - be legitimate discussion about social and economic benefits for all of its members by closer cooperation than exists at present.

India is not a primarily Anglophone country, Hindi is much more widely spoken for example and English is used to facilitate communication between the different language groups. India is also too large to be considered in a tightly knit Anglophone union and would in time come to totally dominate and overwhelm it politically and economically. India is also significantly poorer and underdeveloped than NZ, Canada or Australia.

Finally India is its own civilisation so in many ways is already a union between different languages and cultures rather than a single coherent nation. I don't see how it would be beneficial for India to join such a union. So instead use your brain rather than lazily throwing around accusations of racism.

Reply 22

theman360

yes they would as long the EU is not involved UK would see more trade and more companies setting up in UK and vice versa

Reply 23

U.S Lecce

3

I think it's better to trade with countries close to you geographical proximity. And belive it or not, we actually have a lot in common with our european neighbours, culturally and politically, which helps. Obviously the same can be said for our comonwealth cousins, however our current system seems to work well for us and their current system works well for them.

Reply 24

theman360

Ofcourse trade with EU is a great benefit to the UK but that does not mean we have to part of the EU the EEA is more than enough why pay in to an EU budget designed to help poor countries who keep joining those countries should have formed their own union after leaving the Soviet union - it would have been better if russia kept them

Reply 25

Ian Archer

Anglo countries have been the backbone of security for this planet. Their unity and self-sacrificing bravery ended two World Wars and the Cold War, saving and freeing billions in the process. Wherever there is a natural disaster or a people in desperate need of assistance these heroic people stand up and risk blood and treasure to rescue both friend and fo alike under the ingrained principle to 'love thy neighbor'. Imagine if it were the immoral dictator Putin of the rapidly reforming Neo-USSR or any of the tin pot dictators and religious nuts were entrusted to to watch over the planet; it would mean the return of despotism, concentration camps, and loss of freedoms that Anglos and many others hold dear to their hearts: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the total loss of liberty. In fact, the entire world would sink into a dark thick morass of third world-style crime and pollution. So, yes they act with one voice and they do so with pride, knowing that they alone stand as a bright shining light of liberty, justice, and freedom amongst a wicked and filthy world.

Reply 26

Rakas21

21

Despite the fact that I am not a Euro-skeptic (France and Germany are good allies especially) I must admit that the closer to the Eu referendum we have gotten, the more I believe my heart lies with our brethren in the Anglosphere.

We should of course retain our trade with the EU but I do believe that seeking free trade and movement at a minimum should be sought with the Anglosphere.

Reply 27

This Is Matt

This is fascinating. In the early 70's and again in the 90's Australia, New Zealand and Canada proposed a similar idea, albeit not as close as the EU but it included free trade, sharing of military bases to improve cooperation, extended length visa-free travel but not free movement of labour, health agreements to increase research, schooling agreements allowing children in their millions to take exchanges, policing agreements, tax agreements, free trade on a range of goods, aviation agreements (indeed this was a big reason why BA and Qantas joined on the kangaroo route) and a whole range of small agreements here and there. As a modern day comparison it would be like the Australia - NZ relationship but extended to include Britain and Canada.

I did research into the idea and think Britain should have gone for it despite the EU saying no. Even today we see health reciprocal agreements, relaxed restrictions on meat and dairy trade, and military cooperation but it's only a fraction of what was originally wanted.

I hope one day we will see this.

Reply 28

Rakas21

21

Original post by This Is Matt

This is fascinating. In the early 70's and again in the 90's Australia, New Zealand and Canada proposed a similar idea, albeit not as close as the EU but it included free trade, sharing of military bases to improve cooperation, extended length visa-free travel but not free movement of labour, health agreements to increase research, schooling agreements allowing children in their millions to take exchanges, policing agreements, tax agreements, free trade on a range of goods, aviation agreements (indeed this was a big reason why BA and Qantas joined on the kangaroo route) and a whole range of small agreements here and there. As a modern day comparison it would be like the Australia - NZ relationship but extended to include Britain and Canada.

I did research into the idea and think Britain should have gone for it despite the EU saying no. Even today we see health reciprocal agreements, relaxed restrictions on meat and dairy trade, and military cooperation but it's only a fraction of what was originally wanted.

I hope one day we will see this.

Do you think they'd still go for it (or indeed something closer).

Reply 29

This Is Matt

Original post by Rakas21

Do you think they'd still go for it (or indeed something closer).

I hope they will. It seems the ideal relationship. It's not overly political with transnational bodies having final say and we have far more in common culturally than we do the EU. The countries have a similar wealth level reducing the idea people move to seek higher living standards.

I believe this is where the EU went wrong. If it stuck to being loosely political focusing around trade and close cooperation on certain matters, there wouldn't be such a Eurosceptic attitude. The other big issue with the EU is the wealth between member states. If it was comprised of the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, and a few Scandinavian countries the whole project wouldn't be collapsing (it just so happens those countries are the largest trading nations in the EU. I suppose Spain, Italy and Greece could be included but their economies have never been stable).

Reply 30

flugelr

19

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

France is our most important trading partner by quite a long way

Actually it is Germany, followed by the US and France.

In recent years Germany has deliberately increased trade to the UK because we are not in the Eurozone.

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

about 400,000 people from each nation live in the other - one of the largest expat communities in either nation

We have significantly more people in Australia the US and Canada than we have in France.

In fact, there are about as many British expats in Australia and New Zealand as there are in the entire EU.

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

and It was the Free French who fought and bled alongside us long before the Americans bothered to stick their noses in in WWI or WWII;

It was the contribution of Empire troops, not French ones, who saved the UK from disaster in WW2.

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

France remains our most important European ally in every aspect.

Except trade, political aims, defence (we work at a much higher level with the Dutch and Germans) and pretty much everything else.

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

Our future should lie in close co-operation with the French and our other European friends

We can co-operate without being part of a political union.

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

the rest of the Anglo-Saxon world isn't interested in us any more. Canada, Australia and New Zealand all look to Asia for their futures

Arguably that is due to our lack of engagement, not theirs. If we re-engage matters may change.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 31

MostUncivilised

3

Original post by Poem boy

Would Britain do better to deepen political, economic and cultural ties with English speaking Commonwealth members rather than with the EU?

Original post by flugelr

X.

As a citizen of two Anglosphere countries (Britain and Australia), I obviously feel great affection for the idea of the Anglosphere, and I recognise that in practice it is extremely important (particularly in the military and intelligence sphere).

But the idea that it will be anything more than that, particularly as a substitute for the European Union, is fantasy. From Australia and New Zealand's perspective, Britain walked out on us to join the Common Market. Britain had no closer and more loyal allies in the world than Australian and New Zealand, but it made a choice in 1972.

We made our peace with it, and pivoted to Asia and now trade 70% to 80% with the Asia-Pacific region. There is no going back, Britain made its bed in 1972 and it now must sleep in it.

Britain will always retain an incredibly close link to the rest of the Anglosphere, and I for one believe that it should be strengthened. The bonds between the Anglosphere nations goes beyond normal relationships between countries, it's something akin in international affairs to a relationship between family. But one must also be realistic, given the UK's entry into the European Union

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 32

MostUncivilised

3

Original post by Captain Crash

Australia are that similar to us? Both are significantly more Americanised than us, with a completely different culture and way of life.

I'm sorry, that's absolute bloody nonsense. Clearly you know very little about Australia

Reply 33

flugelr

19

Original post by MostUncivilised

x

I agree wth you. My last post was mainly because I disagreed with the general 'tone' of the post I was quoting.

I don't think we should try to replace the EU with some kind of Commonwealth Union, rather I think we should replace a parochial, protectionist block with a much more global outlook.

Reply 34

MostUncivilised

3

Original post by flugelr

I agree wth you. My last post was mainly because I disagreed with the general 'tone' of the post I was quoting.

I don't think we should try to replace the EU with some kind of Commonwealth Union, rather I think we should replace a parochial, protectionist block with a much more global outlook.

Agreed. I think the UK often fails to appreciate how good its credit it is in Australia and New Zealand, and what an advantage it is in an increasingly complex world to have a relationship with two other countries where they implicitly and absolutely trust one another.

Having lived in Australia (for most of the first 23 years of my life), the US (for six months) and the UK (for the last three years), I would say that the UK doesn't feel like a foreign country to Australians. Australians (despite the sibling rivalry) tend to fit in her, and likewise Brits tend to fit in down under. The US feels much more foreign.

Australia and Britain have been increasing their co-operation in the last 10 years, they drifted apart slightly but they have been renewing their relationship more recently. I think this is a good thing. Ultimately, Britain when it deals with European countries knows it is dealing with countries who have their own interest and agenda, and they can never really entirely trust them. Not the case with Australia and New Zealand, the advantages that flow from that should be maximised

Reply 35

MostUncivilised

3

Original post by flugelr

X

Just one example of the increasing and renewed co-operation between Aus and UK

New treaty to formalise defence co-operation with Australia

The UK and Australia will strengthen their long-standing relationship today with a new defence treaty to provide a framework for the many strands of co-operation between the 2 countries.

Reply 36

MostUncivilised

3

Original post by flugelr

X

Oh and one last thing... It's easy to forget, and underrate the importance of, the fact that we have the same Head of State. The Queen of Australia is also the Queen of the United Kingdom. Sharing our head of state is quite a profound link

Reply 37

This Is Matt

Original post by MostUncivilised

Oh and one last thing... It's easy to forget, and underrate the importance of, the fact that we have the same Head of State. The Queen of Australia is also the Queen of the United Kingdom. Sharing our head of state is quite a profound link

You've forgot to mention the last two Australian Prime Ministers were born in Britain to British parents. You also haven't mentioned the big white elephant.... 74% of Australians are of partial British/Irish ancestry. Additionally there are 1.1 million Britons living in Australia (4.7% of Australia's population is British). No wonder Anglo- Anzac is alive and kicking.

Britain's future lies with stronger links to the Anglosphere and as a strengthened Anglosphere increasing links with Asia.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 38

Rakas21

21

That's nice to hear. If i ever did vote to leave the EU, the first thing i'd want is bilateral treaties with Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA (and Ireland but they'd be included with the EU) for free trade and as close to free movement as we could reasonably get. Trade needs to be improved though, i believe our exports to the 5 countries above (including Ireland) amount to only 20% of exports with new Zealand in particular being woeful. Given that the Netherlands (a relatively small economy) makes up 7% of our exports i do think it's reasonable to push Australia, Canada and New Zealand towards 5% each. Though of course we'll be getting free trade with the USA and Canada very soon.

Reply 39

MostUncivilised

3

Original post by This Is Matt

You've forgot to mention the last two Australian Prime Ministers were born in Britain to British parents.

Actually, Tony Abbott was born in Britain but to an Australian mother and British father.But he would indeed have been a British citizen (up until he entered parliament, at which point parliamentarians have to disclaim any adherence to alien powers or foreign magnates, which the UK is in a technical legal sense considered to be).

You also haven't mentioned the big white elephant.... 74% of Australians are of partial British/Irish ancestry. Additionally there are 1.1 million Britons living in Australia (4.7% of Australia's population is British). No wonder Anglo- Anzac is alive and kicking.

And 400,000 Australians living in Britain, including me. My Mum was born in Britain, also to an Australian mother and a British father, And there are many British-Australian dual citizens like me who maintain very strong links between both countries

Britain's future lies with stronger links to the Anglosphere and as a strengthened Anglosphere increasing links with Asia

I think that may be difficult in some senses. The way Australia and New Zealand see it, Britain walked out on us to join the Common Market. We made our peace with it, and pivoted to the Asia-Pacific, where 80% of our imports-exports come from and go to. But I do believe there is scope for continued and expanded security, military and political co-operation.

Britain, Australia and New Zealand can trust each other like family, in a way that Britain can't trust its continental neighbours, and Aus/NZ can't trust their Asian neighbours. That relationship should be valued and protected

(edited 9 years ago)

Is an Anglo union between UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand a good idea?

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