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The Spanish Football Thread

Original post by TheInvincibles14

Young player who was the one of the best players at the WC, not sure about you but that's a lot of exposure and Real will cash in on the shirt sales. There is a difference between James and Ronaldo, but Real will still make a substantial amount from shirt sales.

No they really won't Ronaldo sells 2.5x the shirts of the entire Real Madrid squad combined. He's unique in that aspect and even then he holds most his image rights as far as I know

Reply 5981

AngelPhys

James Rodriguez is coming to LFC next season for free. M'kay bye. Lol.

Reply 5982

Vae

15

Original post by jam278

Suarez wasn't the player that they needed.

That was just as much a galactico signing.

In what world are those two transfers comparable?

Real snatched the arguably biggest talent in Spain after a MVP performance in the U21 Euros to prevent him from leaving la liga/moving to another club claiming they would focus on a "Spanish core", then barely used him and now replace him for ridiculous money with a player who's not incredibly more talented but has put in a MVP performance in the World Cup (however good a season he might have had, Real weren't interested in him before the WC). Not only do they not need him but fitting him in requires them to deconstruct a good, working system and sell or then bench one of their most hard-working players - without the guarantee that the new system would actually be better. They pay a lot of money for "fixing" things that don't need fixing and potentially making them worse than before. And all that when it's quite obvious that this is not the coach's but the presi's wish.

Barça sign a player who might cost too much for some people's liking and who isn't guaranteed to work out but whom the coach has explicitly asked for and who they think offers a solution to an undeniably existing problem. Fitting him in does require a change in system, but not one that disintegrates some of their best-performing players who fit the system better & at the same time makes their most promising youngster who isn't far behind in quality and has liga experience superfluous. Plus the system was in need of a change anyway. Whether or not he is the right solution to Barça's problems and whether or not Lucho was wrong in choosing him is a different question, but that doesn't make the reasoning behind the transfer comparable to Real buying James.

It's hard to question James' quality this whole past season or the fact that he could be great at Real, but it's primarily a marketing transfer that's politically motivated. Suárez is not. Would be mental to buy Suárez solely for marketing reasons after the biting incident anyway, lol. And as much as I had mixed feelings about signing Suárez, not every player who costs a ****load of money and doesn't immeditately seem easy to integrate is a "galáctico". That would really only further inflate the meaning of the term as it's understood today.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 5983

LightBlueSoldier

14

Original post by baconbutty

No they really won't Ronaldo sells 2.5x the shirts of the entire Real Madrid squad combined. He's unique in that aspect and even then he holds most his image rights as far as I know

Conservatively I would estimate that Rodriguez sells 300000 shirts his first year and about 100k a year after that if he's successful. They won't make the money back just off shirt sales but they'll make a good proportion of it back there.

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Reply 5984

LightBlueSoldier

14

Original post by jam278

Suarez wasn't the player that they needed.

That was just as much a galactico signing.

They wanted a 9 to handle parked buses. Suarez is not that type of 9. The no.9 they needed already left Barcelona and is currently at PSG.

Also if they want Messi to play in the hole where is iniesta/Rakitic going to play? Just thinking about it. They didn't need Suarez, they just needed a CB and possibly an RB but I don't think Alves needs to be replaced that badly.

I disagree. Rodriguez has had a season of pretty questionable quality in ligue1. Suarez is a proven player. I would say the Suarez/bale signings and the neymar/James signings are the more comparable ones here.

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Jam just got qua'd.

Original post by LightBlueSoldier

Conservatively I would estimate that Rodriguez sells 300000 shirts his first year and about 100k a year after that if he's successful. They won't make the money back just off shirt sales but they'll make a good proportion of it back there.

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What are these numbers based off? I'm 99% sure it's less

+ real won't get all the money from it

Reply 5987

LightBlueSoldier

14

Original post by baconbutty

What are these numbers based off? I'm 99% sure it's less

It's an estimate. Real Madrid sell about 1.5-2 million shirts a year so it's a guess off that. Those are sales directly from club to consumer so they would get most of that. I haven't considered other sales as I couldn't find a reliable stat on them.

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(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 5988

baconbutty

Original post by LightBlueSoldier

It's an estimate. Real Madrid sell about 1.5-2 million shirts a year so it's a guess off that. Those are sales directly from club to consumer so they would get most of that. I haven't considered other sales as I couldn't find a reliable stat on them.

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They sold 1.4 mil last year and 1 million were Ronaldo shirts

Remember bale, isco etc signed + the other 20 players to make up 400k shirts james Rodriguez will sell nowhere near 300k

Reply 5989

LightBlueSoldier

14

Original post by baconbutty

They sold 1.4 mil last year and 1 million were Ronaldo shirts

Remember bale, isco etc signed + the other 20 players to make up 400k shirts james Rodriguez will sell nowhere near 300k

Shirt sales have averaged 1.4 over the last 5 years which in practice means closer to 2 last year. Shirt sales are also heavily concentrated towards a) new signings and b) starting attacking players. I don't think 300k club to consumer sales for a big signing is unrealistic. Do you have a source for the Ronaldo stats?

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Reply 5990

baconbutty

Original post by LightBlueSoldier

Shirt sales have averaged 1.4 over the last 5 years which in practice means closer to 2 last year. Shirt sales are also heavily concentrated towards a) new signings and b) starting attacking players. I don't think 300k club to consumer sales for a big signing is unrealistic. Do you have a source for the Ronaldo stats?

Posted from TSR Mobile

There's no other club in the World selling more jerseys than Real Madrid and Manchester United. According to the German newspaper "Bild", the Spanish and English giants have each sold approximately 1.4 million jerseys in 2013, while Cristiano Ronaldo single-handedly was responsible for the selling of 1 million shirts with his name printed on the back

If bale, isco, illarmendi + all there other players combined aren't selling 400k. 300k for Rodriguez is unrealistic especially considering bale was a world record fee and a bigger name

Reply 5991

Jordooooom

Original post by CB91

Jam just got qua'd.

"Qua'd", that's brilliant hahah

Reply 5992

jam278

10

Original post by qua

In what world are those two transfers comparable?

Real snatched the arguably biggest talent in Spain after a MVP performance in the U21 Euros to prevent him from leaving la liga/moving to another club claiming they would focus on a "Spanish core", then barely used him and now replace him for ridiculous money with a player who's not incredibly more talented but has put in a MVP performance in the World Cup (however good a season he might have had, Real weren't interested in him before the WC). Not only do they not need him but fitting him in requires them to deconstruct a good, working system and sell or then bench one of their most hard-working players - without the guarantee that the new system would actually be better. They pay a lot of money for "fixing" things that don't need fixing and potentially making them worse than before. And all that when it's quite obvious that this is not the coach's but the presi's wish.

Yeah that does take the piss the way in which they did that and how Isco is getting treated. But I can liken Di Maria leaving/benched for Real to Sanchez leaving. Also one of your better players and most hardworking players of the previous season.

I do believe however that Rodriguez is Ronaldo's long term replacement(as is Bale). With the big money they put in for him, the fact Ronaldo is turning 30 don't be surprised to see Ronaldo be on the bench in about 2 seasons time for Rodriguez and Bale. He'll give Isco games in the future as Ronaldo's influence on the team starts waning.

Barça sign a player who might cost too much for some people's liking and who isn't guaranteed to work out but whom the coach has explicitly asked for and who they think offers a solution to an undeniably existing problem. Fitting him in does require a change in system, but not one that disintegrates some of their best-performing players who fit the system better & at the same time makes their most promising youngster who isn't far behind in quality and has liga experience superfluous. Plus the system was in need of a change anyway. Whether or not he is the right solution to Barça's problems and whether or not Lucho was wrong in choosing him is a different question, but that doesn't make the reasoning behind the transfer comparable to Real buying James.

I don't disagree here.

I wouldn't say the system needed a change for Barca though. A plan B, but they could have stuck with plan A if they wanted to. It's the case that Xavi isn't good enough anymore(he's been replaced).

If Barca actually want to focus on something, they could buy a CB because their defence is terrible, or a fullback that doesn't just run forward at every opportunity, buying Suarez is more of the same. Just because he says he's a no.9 doesn't mean that he's going to play as one.

The reason they bought Sturridge e.g. is because he solved a massive tactical problem with them. Suarez likes to drop deep and get into zone 14, which is where majority of chances are created and the wingers/striker in front of him allows Suarez to thread balls in, if not he creates a chance for himself.

Does the way Suarez plays sound familiar to a certain player you have at Barca?

It's hard to question James' quality this whole past season or the fact that he could be great at Real, but it's primarily a marketing transfer that's politically motivated. Suárez is not. Would be mental to buy Suárez for marketing reasons after the biting incident anyway, lol. And as much as I had mixed feelings about signing Suárez, not every player who costs a ****load of money and doesn't immeditately seem easy to integrate is a "galáctico". That would really only further inflate the meaning of the term as it's understood today.

Suarez is still a hit in south america. In particular Uruguay.

Galacticos original meaning was the case of making a world class team with world class players signed for big money. It's then had negative connotations when it didn't work out with the prima donnas and the lack of balance in the teams(e.g. Beckham for Makalele). Signings that Barcelona have made that adopted this policy have been Neymar and Suarez, two players that were not necessarily needed(in particular Suarez) but will have shirt sales. Despite Suarez' off the field policies, do you not think that the little kids playing in catalunya won't be getting Suarez shirts? His Pr is questionable but he'd get a lot in shirt sales. I can assure you of that.

For the record though. What is your definition of Galacticos? Thought it stood for galactic(aka big).

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 5993

hello101010

11

Original post by CB91

Jam just got qua'd.

We've all been there.

Reply 5994

Undisclosed 15

18

What is the official transfer fee of James?

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Reply 5995

Icecream1

15

Ronaldo, Bale & James cost Real Madrid around €265M.

Ajax have spent €232M on transfers since their founding in 1900.

:eek:

Reply 5996

LightBlueSoldier

14

Original post by Icecream1

Ajax have spent €232M on transfers since their founding in 1900.

:eek:

Inflation adjusted?

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Reply 5997

pane123

16

Original post by LightBlueSoldier

Real made back Ronaldo's fees in less than a year just on shirt sales.

Original post by baconbutty

They sold 1.4 mil last year and 1 million were Ronaldo shirts

Remember bale, isco etc signed + the other 20 players to make up 400k shirts james Rodriguez will sell nowhere near 300k

It's impossible to make the money back on shirt sales. The club will get £10-£15 per shirt, so would have to sell many millions to make back a transfer fee. Also, to really be making the transfer fee back, these shirt sales would have to represent an increase on the sales made if a certain player wasn't there.

There is no way that signing Ronaldo meant Real Madrid sold 1,000,000 more shirts than they would have without him.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 5998

Malevolent

19

Man Madrid and Barcelona are ridiculous.

Reply 5999

Vae

15

Original post by jam278

Suarez is still a hit in south america. In particular Uruguay.

Galacticos original meaning was the case of making a world class team with world class players signed for big money. It's then had negative connotations when it didn't work out with the prima donnas and the lack of balance in the teams(e.g. Beckham for Makalele). Signings that Barcelona have made that adopted this policy have been Neymar and Suarez, two players that were not necessarily needed(in particular Suarez) but will have shirt sales. Despite Suarez' off the field policies, do you not think that the little kids playing in catalunya won't be getting Suarez shirts? His Pr is questionable but he'd get a lot in shirt sales. I can assure you of that.

For the record though. What is your definition of Galacticos? Thought it stood for galactic(aka big).

Yeah, Suárez is marketable to an extent, but neither kids in catalunya wanting his name on their shirts nor him being a hit in Uruguay prove that he's primarily a marketing or "business first, football second" signing and thus comparable to James (as even that replacement for CR argument is hardly the primary reason for his signing), which was my point. He's clearly not. The need for a mobile attacker that poses additional scoring threat was plain to see, and a mobile attacker was signed in Suárez. Just because there are doubts about whether he will work or is the right choice does not mean that he's signed because of reasons similar to those behind James' transfer.

(In Neymar's case you can argue since his marketability is simply too big to ignore and perhaps that was motivation for Rosell with his Brazilian fetish, but I maintain that signing a player in the mould of Neymar was needed from a football perspective. Barça was in need of a winger who can score just as much as create as Villa was in decline and about to leave, Pedro inconsistent and a minnow slayer and Alexis primarily a creative winger who struggled when forced into that scoring wing-forward role. Neymar fits the needed profile excellently and I don't know whom Barça realistically could have signed that would have ticked more boxes than him AND would have been of similar quality/talent. Of course so far Neymar hasn't really been able to provide that needed scoring threat but it should come once he's fully adapted to the leagues. Besides, if we use James being a long-term replacement for CR as a justfication for Real signing him, then the same could be said about Neymar and Messi. :dontknow:

)

Neither of them were comparable to James' transfer imo.

Spoiler

I wouldn't say the system needed a change for Barca though. A plan B, but they could have stuck with plan A if they wanted to. It's the case that Xavi isn't good enough anymore(he's been replaced).

If Barca actually want to focus on something, they could buy a CB because their defence is terrible, or a fullback that doesn't just run forward at every opportunity, buying Suarez is more of the same. Just because he says he's a no.9 doesn't mean that he's going to play as one.

The reason they bought Sturridge e.g. is because he solved a massive tactical problem with them. Suarez likes to drop deep and get into zone 14, which is where majority of chances are created and the wingers/striker in front of him allows Suarez to thread balls in, if not he creates a chance for himself.

Does the way Suarez plays sound familiar to a certain player you have at Barca?

You're making it seem as if Barça decided to sign Suárez instead of signing defenders, but that's not true. Of course, priorities for Barça are obviously defence, midfield and gk position. Two of those areas had been taken care of before Suárez was signed, signins in defence are in progress and financially not majorly affected by the Suárez deal, so nothing speaks against improving other areas which could need an uprade. As for your other points; again, these are your reservations about Suárez as the type of forward Barça needed but that does not show that Suárez was not signed due to footballing reasons to fix a problem or signed with the same motives that Real have when signing James.

While we're at it, you're focussing on this "classic #9" type of player, but that's not even what is necessarily needed. What Barça clearly lack in attack compared with the 2008-2011 era is consistent scoring threat from the two players in attack who are not called Messi, which is a problem as defenders find it easier and easier to just crowd Messi and take him out of the game. We can pull out Pedro's and Alexis' numbers again but Pedro lacks any kind of consistency and Alexis only got consistently dangerous in front of goal when Messi was out, either due to injury or due to tactics; at no point did Barça really play with three or even two immediate scoring threats. This explains both the Neymar and the Suárez signings, the Suárez one even more considering Neymar has so far not really provided that consistent scoring threat (will likely come with time though). A true 9 is another possibility, but there are good options for that role coming through the ranks and it's hard to find a good enough striker who's willing to take the plan B/mostly-benchwarmer role. So the question remaining is whether Suárez and Messi can be fitted into a system without keeping one of them from scoring. It's already been discussed ITT & I've said myself that it requires some tweaks to the system to work - we'll see how it will. But even if we all agree that it won't work out tactically, it's hard to argue that Suárez is per se simply a better scorer than both Alexis and Pedro are...

However, that's a side issue to be discussed in this question as none of that refutes the point that Suárez was Lucho's wish and was signed because he, in his eyes, fixes an existing problem/improves the attack. That was the whole point. Even if you don't think he was needed, he at least has potential to improve a system that hasn't even been remarkably good and doesn't need a good, working system to be deconstructed and the best & most promising players to be gotten rid off like James does.

So Suárez is "not as much a galáctico signing" as James is; you can perhaps argue that Suárez is potentially a bad signing or not a priority signing, but none of that makes the whole deal comparable to the James deal. The only notable similarity between the two transfers is the high fee.

(edited 9 years ago)

The Spanish Football Thread

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