Was I raped

Original post by greeneyedgirl

There's a difference between drunk and so drunk you're unable to consent. OP is clearly the latter.

How on earth can you conclude this? You simply can't on what OP has said.

Original post by greeneyedgirl

No a woman can still rape you even if you are completely drunk.

Women cannot rape men under English law.

Reply 221

I never said it couldn't, but the notion that you can just tell the police to go start seizing things is madness. They would need some serious cause to do that. If they have it, then of course they would, but it's not something you just request and it happens.

Reply 222

ngb9320

1

Original post by jenkinsear

That's a ridiculous comment. The police can't just start seizing things because someone turns up and tells them to. They need to establish a reasonable case first and then get the permission of a judge (exceptions applying for certain things).

It is a reasonable case. They have good reasons for doing it due to the serious accusation.

Reply 223

Original post by ngb9320

It is a reasonable case. They have good reasons for doing it due to the serious accusation.

It doesn't quite work like that.

Reply 224

I suggest you re-read their post, as that does not seem to be their point at all.

As for your second point, I am correcting some of the idiotic comments that the wannabe lawyers are spouting.

The most useful advice for OP if they genuinely believe they were raped (which is a bloody serious allegation to be making, so they should consider whether they do really consider that to be what happened) is to contact the police immediately and report for a medical examination asap so that critically helpful evidence can be taken.

Reply 225

snailsareslimy

18

I'm so sorry this happened to you. A similar thing happened to me a few months ago, so I know exactly how you feel :hugs:

.

The next few months are gonna be tough, you're gonna go through a lot of crazy feelings, but honestly it does get better. Talk to someone you trust and try to work through your problems. Counselling might also be an idea (I didn't go to my session but I think it would have helped me, tbh.)

If you ever need someone to talk to, PM me. Any time. Sending out loads of hugs :hugs:

xxxx

Reply 226

Please, never go to the bar. There's an important distinction between "diminished mental capacity" and "diminished capacity to consent" which would need to be made very clear to a jury.

It's also so wrong to say that alcohol "causes a diminished capacity". No it doesn't. It can, in somewhat extreme circumstances, but normally the approach is that it actually doesn't.

With respect, you seem to be confused about the fine distinctions necessary in law. I assume you're quite early into your studies, but these things become clearer with time. Ultimately the important thing is what OP opts to do next, which I hope is whatever is best for their wellbeing.

Reply 227

They suggest it is simply a matter of OP "getting" the police to check multiple items of his property. Their choice of language is incredibly telling. Clarity matters :wink:

My genuine concern is that OP or others may get the impression that they have a right to such things and then feel let down or that their rights are not being respected if they do not succeed in getting such action taken. It's important for alleged victims to understand the limits of police power; regardless of intent the original comment was unhelpful in this regard. I do not feel that is an unfair comment.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 228

I'll make this my final point aside from a brief response to your other comments below as there's little point continuing, but I have taught first year undergrads in their first term Criminal law at a far more prestigious university than Chicago (is Chicago even prestigious for law? I've seen little of it in the academic world, which hints as a no to me) and they all pretty much grasped these issues with far more understanding than you seem to.

Here is the core of your problem: you seem to think linguistics and neurology change what the actual law is. They do not. As lovely and interesting as the academic theories or even the scientific studies in these areas are, they are irrelevant unless they are drawn upon in applying the law. No court is going to overrule reams of caselaw because of your views on neurology.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 229

I have no interest in whether they are lawyers or not, simply in the accuracy of their comments. A non lawyer can be far more informed than a lawyer- I have seen it many times, this thread being an example in several instances.

Nice bold type. I however disagree entirely- I wish OP or anyone who ever reads back on this thread to have factual information, not ill-informed drivel. Unless such errors are challenged, they spread. Why do you think so many people believe in common law marriage? I have offered my view on what OP should do in addition to challenging some of the more dubious advice/views given, with the overall aim of being a mix of supportive and realistic. I make no apologies for doing so.

Reply 230

Christ, we know we're in trouble when the old league tables are being wheeled out. I won't even go into the flaws in their methodology, but suffice to say I find the claim Chicago is somehow a top law school to be quite amusing.

I have a vague awareness of Nussbaum for some of her jurisprudence writings, but I wouldn't really cite her as particularly noteworthy on criminal law. I find it bizarre that you would think she was.

As for where I teach, believe what you like. The reality is you are struggling with the content that a first year should be relatively comfortable with. That is bemusing and concerning. Lucky Chicago...

Reply 231

Original post by Anonymous

I never ever thought id post a thread like this.
Last night, i got very drunk and was split up from my friends in a club. My memory went after that. The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
I can't wrap my head around this.. is this rape? I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand,
I really don't know what to do.
I don't even know him at all.
I can't stop crying, I feel really odd, like I've never felt how I do right now.

Mod edit: Please note that this is not a debate thread, give helpful advice to the OP only. Unhelpful/unsupportive advice will be removed and you may receive a card

Viewpoint 1
I don't know where you live or anything, but in most countries instead of posting something like this online you should take it up with the police.
In most countries I believe rape is defined as a person not 'being in the right frame of mind' when the event happened. If you were both drunk then it goes both ways but if it was a one sided thing that would definitely be defined this way.

Viewpoint 2
Don't be quick to judge, even if you were drunk that is still a version of youself, talk to the guy as he seems cooperative and talk about it. If you jump to conclusions then you may miss a relationship that would work out.
Sometimes situations like that can make you find something in yourself, a resolve if you will about future situations. Just don't forget your actions depending on what you do about it.

Viewpoint 3
I'm sorry for saying this but how do you think the other person is taking this?
A person who he may of developed feelings for over this event now tells him to his face it was a mistake after he did all of those things to care for you and make sure you were ok. Sure he went too far but what if it was actually you who went too far?
Would you be happy with yourself for judging someone based on what may of been your decision?

My opinion would be to find out exactly what he knows about the situation and to talk it through with him before you jump to conclusions, as otherwise you may be making a mistake in multiple areas.

If you don't listen with an open mind to people then what's the point in having an honest conversation with him? In my opinion turning your back on him because of this or making him seem the criminal is too hasty a decision when you have only just come back to your senses.

Call your friends, go out for a drink (non-alchoholic) (sorry I couldn't resist) in the daytime and calm down. You will make mistakes if your head is clouded. In this situation you need to be sure you have no regrets in how you react.

Best wishes and I hope you find your path. I'm sure people here are willing to help and I will always respond to a message from someone who requests my assistance.

Reply 232

Original post by DiddyDec

You don't seem to know much about drinking. Blacking out is normal if you drink a lot in a single period.

Is blacking out a big thing if you over drink?
When I drank a bottle of vodka on my own within about 15 minutes I still had a lot of control over my body and speech and I can even remember the expressions on peoples faces and the conversations I had and the time I fell asleep, all up to the amount of times I was sick and the few days I had to stay home with poisoning.

Would this be my medical conditions being really useful or does the blacking out thing not always apply?

Reply 233

eskimo_rising

3

Original post by StormXibalba

Well actually her question was, "was I raped?" and my answer to the OP was "you don't know" which is factually correct, unlike your opinion.

Also the recent changes are so obviously wrong to anyone with half a brain cell. It shouldn't be the job of the accused to prove someone consented, it should be up to the prosecution to prove a case, not the other way around. Innocent until proven guilty and thats been the underpining of the law for a lot longer than last year

I never said I disagreed with the new laws one way or another but unlike some people I'm respecting the purpose of the thread and what the mods said.

Original post by Arkarian

Viewpoint 1
I don't know where you live or anything, but in most countries instead of posting something like this online you should take it up with the police.
In most countries I believe rape is defined as a person not 'being in the right frame of mind' when the event happened. If you were both drunk then it goes both ways but if it was a one sided thing that would definitely be defined this way.

Viewpoint 2
Don't be quick to judge, even if you were drunk that is still a version of youself, talk to the guy as he seems cooperative and talk about it. If you jump to conclusions then you may miss a relationship that would work out.
Sometimes situations like that can make you find something in yourself, a resolve if you will about future situations. Just don't forget your actions depending on what you do about it.

Viewpoint 3
I'm sorry for saying this but how do you think the other person is taking this?
A person who he may of developed feelings for over this event now tells him to his face it was a mistake after he did all of those things to care for you and make sure you were ok. Sure he went too far but what if it was actually you who went too far?
Would you be happy with yourself for judging someone based on what may of been your decision?

My opinion would be to find out exactly what he knows about the situation and to talk it through with him before you jump to conclusions, as otherwise you may be making a mistake in multiple areas.

If you don't listen with an open mind to people then what's the point in having an honest conversation with him? In my opinion turning your back on him because of this or making him seem the criminal is too hasty a decision when you have only just come back to your senses.

Call your friends, go out for a drink (non-alchoholic) (sorry I couldn't resist) in the daytime and calm down. You will make mistakes if your head is clouded. In this situation you need to be sure you have no regrets in how you react.

Best wishes and I hope you find your path. I'm sure people here are willing to help and I will always respond to a message from someone who requests my assistance.

Wow i'm actually speechless... I don't even know where to start with this. :s-smilie:

A potential relationship with him? He might have developed feelings for her? What? I just don't .... arggh I'm going to bed.

OP you got the answer to your question, opinions aside, and with the new changes to the law it's conclusive enough for you to approach the Police ASAP.

His motivations are irrelevant though I do wish they'd have publisized resent changes in the law, I have a feeling many cases like this wouldn't happen if the new consequences where publicized. :frown:

Good night.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 234

1 league table doesn't make something true.

Someone writing about something doesn't make them an expert or noteworthy.

Such bizarre and flawed patterns of thinking.

I haven't claimed to be a "lecturer of supposed import". You also hint at not understanding how academia in the UK works at the junior level, which is yet another example of you failing to grasp the basic simple of points.

Where have I been insensitive? I have stuck to fact and to law. Emotional support/guidance/directions to excellent charities has been provided and offered by others. I am seeking to address the deficit of realistic, reasonable informed advice in other areas. OP has my full sympathy and will continue to do so.

Pray tell me where I claim to be a "lecturer of criminal law".

What I can confirm is that sexual offences is an area of the law that the general public are woefully ill informed about- far more so than most other branches of law they are likely to face day to day. The problem this presents is that they are prone to spreading false information/interpretations as they legitimately believe them to be true. There's no malice there, but when determining if someone is a victim of rape or not these falsehoods are so incredibly unhelpful. It is why it's important to challenge said falsehoods.

You seem obsessed with how non-lawyers are perceived. I take it from this that you feel somehow inadequate at your own lack of training/education in the area. I can see why; you have good reason to be in light of your clear inability to grasp basic entry level issues. But do not try to cast the same level of ignorance onto everyone who comes from a non legal background. It's not fair.

Reply 235

Original post by eskimo_rising

His motivations are irrelevant though I do wish they'd have publisized resent changes in the law, I have a feeling many cases like this wouldn't happen if the new consequences where publicized. :frown:

.

An excellent point.

Reply 236

eskimo_rising

3

Original post by jenkinsear

An excellent point.

I think a lot of people are going to find themselves in a lot of trouble and ignorance of the law is no defense. It's a HUGE cultural change too, specially amongst the young. It really strikes hard in the centre of 'lad' culture [which I find disgusting anyway as a mature minded guy.]

Again i'm not saying it's right or wrong one way or another or condoning anything but their is a huge gulf of ignorance and potential trouble left by these changes.

Incidentally there are a few forum members outside the UK, is OP outside the UK? We can't really answer the question without knowing which countries laws we are using.

Goodnight all.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 237

Original post by eskimo_rising

Wow i'm actually speechless... I don't even know where to start with this. :s-smilie:

A relationship? He might have developed feelings for her? What? I just don't .... arggh I'm going to bed.

OP you got the answer to your question, opinions aside, and with the new changes to the law it's conclusive enough for you to approach the Police ASAP.

His motivations are irrelevant though I do wish they'd have publisized resent changes in the law, I have a feeling many cases like this wouldn't happen if the new consequences where publicized. :frown:

Good night.

I'm more saying that unfortunately, people jump too fast when it comes to things like this. If you always do things without thinking then wrecking his life when he didn't actually mean harm isn't fair.

If you were in his situation and you didn't actually realise anything was wrong and then for the person to wake up and declare you a rapist.

I'm saying to think this over before you judge everyone by what you hear.
I'm not saying forgive him, his motives are unknown. That still doesn't give you the right to assume the worst and condemn him.

The OP resisted reporting it so they must feel that it might not have been just that one thing.

If you want to treat people as animals based on claims that people who aren't in their right minds make then who is to stop you. I would just like if people stopped assuming the worst and actually tried evaluating a situation based on facts not feelings.

If I resent something after does that mean I can get everyone done for bad things? All I need to do is say I didn't want it and they are arrested right?
Get drunk and then go gambling, if I lose I wasn't in my right mind so I get it all back.

Community like you live in now LOVES to assume the worst, hell, they even advertise "make a claim now". So who is to blame you.

Try to actually see that people have names and not stereotypes. that maybe he actually did care as he didn't just throw her into the street after if she didn't remember a thing. I consider people based on how they treat others, not by what I assume they had intentions of doing.

All I did was not take sides, I was saying that even though the OP was drunk they still to some extent have the capacity to speak up. If the OP wants to deal with the problem they need to take it head on like an adult and sort it out with proper communication, rather than running about the place calling a person a rapist when there is a chance it is misunderstood.

Reply 238

Original post by jenkinsear

x

As much as we all love you guys fighting to see whose ego is bigger, the OP has a real world problem so I think quite a few people would be greatful that if you aren't offering advice to please get the hell out of here? Thanks for your cooperation.

Reply 239