The Arsenal Thread XXIII

What part of 'defensive statistics mean nothing without context' do you not understand? Team strength, team defensive set up and opposition method of attack determine defensive stats.

When you're going forward, a team tends to attack through it's best players, your attacking stats (as a team) are self determined - the best players get on the ball more, and provide key passes, shots, goals and dribbles. But when you're defending, your ability to make defensive stats are dependent on your team set up, and where the opposition chooses to attack you. For example, if Oxlade has more clearances or blocks, it may well be due to him being positioned in a certain area at set pieces, whereas Willian may be positioned on the counter - it's not as if Willian would be incapable of blocking a shot when in the wall, or a clearing header at the near post.

Another example is Willian's undeniable work rate meaning that teams are reluctant to attack down his side, and prefer attacking down the right, down Hazard's side because he's more lax defensively. In this instance, Willian simply doesn't have the opportunity to get tackles and interceptions.

These are two real life examples I'm giving you to try and explain to you. There's an unlimited number of examples. It has been proven conclusively that defensive stats in attacking players, and as I said, in all players, mean little. Using marginal stats to say Willian < Ox defensively is dumb and invalid.

End discussion.

I agree with what saying don't get me wrong, but surely, seeing as Chelsea are by and large a defensive team for most of the season, Willian would have better defensive stats that Chamberlain, no? That isn't the case.

When you look at going forward, Ox and Willian are in similar positions, neither are the star player going forward. Chamberlain STILL wins in take ons and key passes and chance creation despite his similar role in Arsenals team when on the wing (and when playing centrally, has even less opportunity for take ons and key passes as he plays at CDM).

Yes stats can be swayed by set pieces, Hazards goal statistics are proof of that for example, but when a player has CONSISTENTLY got similar stats for the past 3 season, you cannot just negate them and say they are meaningless.

Or should I just in future resort to the "ask pimped which player is better and take his answer as factually 100% correct" instead?

Anyway I'm not going to bother arguing this any more, the main reason I said that ox would walk into the starting line up was to see if Sheddo would take the bait (although I still do genuinely think Mou would start Ox over Willian in most circumstances if he had both players in his squad). It doesn't matter anyway because I don't think Wenger would be stupid enough to exchange a homegrown 21 year old with heaps of potential and years left on his contract for a 31 year old keeper with 1 year left on his contract.

I just can't comprehend how players like Willian, a established professional, current title winner, creative link man for one of the 4 best teams in the planet, can be compared to a 21 year old that has done nothing of note in the football world, and doesn't make it into his own team (weaker than Willian's), let alone his ****ty national squad. Let Oxlade-Chamberlain do half the things that Willian does for club or country and maybe then you have a debate. Misusing stats doesn't negate any of this. Oxlade Chamberlain is a talented young player with good potential, but ffs come on. I'm not even a huge fan of Willian, he has **** all end product whilst playing for Chelsea.

Arsenal fans are the most deluded in the world.

You think Chelsea are the 4th best team? Where would you rank Juventus then?

not a goalscorer they said

Dont get ahead of yourself, I was talking about Brazil. He doesn't play as a creative link man for you anyway.

I bet Zurich trolls the Chelsea thread like shed does to this one

Dont get ahead of yourself, I was talking about Brazil.

shot down hard


October 3 is gonna be a good day for us, it's our customary "pick up 3 points at the Emirates" day.

Haterz mane.

Anyway can't wait for our 4 points against United, wanna do another bus job for the lols.

3 goals in 1890mins this season.
2 goals in 686mins last season.
1 goal in 1315mins 12/13 season
overall 9 goals in 4705 mins of football for Arsenal.

Defo not a goalscorer. Maybe a scorer of good goals, but not a goalscorer thats for sure. He will add that to his game but he's not a goalscorer at this moment in time. Not an argument just fact.