Young wingers almost never put goals up though. Ronaldo, Bale struggled to get any until they were about 24 to name just two. He will improve that and has shown an eye for goal at times tbf.

Ox is just about to turn 22. Ronaldo was 21 at the start of his 17 league goal season, and he'd been getting numbers before then. Bale was a late developer as a winger but was 23 when he scored 21 goals in the league, 22 when he was putting up 20 goals+assists, 21 with the Inter-hat trick year. Those are elite players though, AOC isn't.

AOC is a much better dribbler, is better technically, offers much more defensively, is stronger, more aggressive and has similar passing range. He just needs to make the runs into the box. Ramsey was never seen as a goal scorer until he started doing that but look at him now, double figures in the past 2 seasons.

So he basically just need quantifiable product, as I said. If we're classifying everything up to end product as important, its pretty easy to make a case for Andros Townsend who has pretty elite numbers in everything except what matters. If he was producing the same, then those would be factors but he's not.

AOC in 5 years time will be better than Walcott is, 100%. Walcott basically hasnt developed since 2011/12.

First bit is fair second half is not, but regardless you said he's a better player already which is clearly not the case.

12/13 is 14 goals 10 assists, I'd say that is progression. Walcott is 26, you can see what kind of player he's going to be, but regardless he's one of your best players. He's got a scoring contribution every 100 odd mins, for half a decade bar 11/12 bit of a wobble, which is respectable although not elite. Who else is bettering than in your team?

Reply 4144

StrangerthanEleven

12

Original post by Depleted

What?!?!

Original post by Tom.x.Gotze

Tbf , he does have a bit of bite to him.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 4145

ETRC

17

Original post by Fizzel

Ox is just about to turn 22. Ronaldo was 21 at the start of his 17 league goal season, and he'd been getting numbers before then. Bale was a late developer as a winger but was 23 when he scored 21 goals in the league, 22 when he was putting up 20 goals+assists, 21 with the Inter-hat trick year. Those are elite players though, AOC isn't.

So he basically just need quantifiable product, as I said. If we're classifying everything up to end product as important, its pretty easy to make a case for Andros Townsend who has pretty elite numbers in everything except what matters. If he was producing the same, then those would be factors but he's not.

First bit is fair second half is not, but regardless you said he's a better player already which is clearly not the case.

12/13 is 14 goals 10 assists, I'd say that is progression. Walcott is 26, you can see what kind of player he's going to be, but regardless he's one of your best players. He's got a scoring contribution every 100 odd mins, for half a decade bar 11/12 bit of a wobble, which is respectable although not elite. Who else is bettering than in your team?

Didn't realise Walcott is 26. He will not be world class for sure because Sanchez and Ozil are both 26 too but Walcott can be a very good player.

I think Ramsey has the most room to still develop- he can be brilliant if he is able to stay fit. AOC can be better than Walcott if he does anything to his end product.

Reply 4146

ETRC

17

Original post by hayles101

Not really true. Hazard got 20 goals in 38 games aged 19/20, Depay 22 aged 20.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Hazard and Depay got goals in crap leagues though. League 1 was crap when Hjazard played there and the Dutch league is not exactly hard.

Wingers scoring loads in PL, Bund or LaLiga is impressive.
Lacazette has scored loads of goals against crap teams which is why the top clubs are not trying to get him now.

Reply 4147

Pimped Butterfly

1

AOC got a goal or an assist after more than every 8 full sets of 90 last season. It's a pitiful, worrying record at this stage. He's a quantifiably great dribbler but the end product is completely lacking and at 22 that's a big warning sign that he's never going to be elite. There's nothing about his underlying numbers that suggests he'll improve either - poor shots and key passes per game. Comparing him to Walcott is ridiculous right now. If it's true @Fizzel that he's got a scoring contribution every 100 minutes then that is definitely elite and few players in world football match that. Take out your Barca, Madrid and Bayern players and I'd bet only Reus in his position can boast that consistency (or if you add Tevez and Aguero, any position?). Sure he's lacking in his all round game compared to the elite players but you don't argue with numbers like that.

There's a reason why Wenger's put him at CM at times, not because it perfectly suits his skill set necessarily, but because it removes him from a position where his skills don't suit.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 4148

username1315644

17

Original post by Pimped Butterfly

If it's true @Fizzel that he's got a scoring contribution every 100 minutes then that is definitely elite and few players in world football match that.

Its rough, 14/15: 5/0 in 442mins 13/14: 5/4 in 859mins 12/13: 14/10 in 2286mins 11/12: 8/8 in 2749 10/11: 9/7 in 1696. He's possibly benefitting from having lower mins over the season but 11/12 aside that's 100 odds mins in the league.

Reply 4149

Tom.x.Gotze

1

Yeah , out of the current crop I see that only Ramsey, possibly Wilshere (at a stretch, if he avoids injury and gets his **** together) will make it to World Class level. Wilshere imo, has the potential to be exceptional.

Contrary to Zurich's belief, I also believe Bellerin will become one of the best RB's in the world.

Reply 4150

Icecream1

15

So Chuba Akpom is going on loan after Wenger said he was staying. The rumours of a striker coming in are hotting up. I don't think it will be Benzema, he isn't Rafa's favourite but I can't see him coming to Arsenal.

Reply 4151

sevchenko

15

Akpom's role at best would have been last 20/10mins of Already won PL games and League Cup starts. I don't see how that warrants a new striker

Reply 4152

ZÃ¼rich

20

We cant buy what isnt for sale.
So annoying that in any other position, you can basically go out and pick a top quality player but at striker there are literally zero available options, and that's been the case for years.

21st century coaching would appear to have killed the striker and all we have to show for it are an endless parade of CAMs

Giroud gets stick but if we tried to replace him we'd be ****ed, never mind upgrading on him.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 4153

Icecream1

15

Original post by Zürich

We cant buy what isnt for sale.
So annoying that in any other position, you can basically go out and pick a top quality player but at striker there are literally zero available options, and that's been the case for years.

21st century coaching would appear to have killed the striker and all we have to show for it are an endless parade of CAMs

Giroud gets stick but if we tried to replace him we'd be ****ed, never mind upgrading on him.

If you have the cash, you can buy who you want. It may not be wise to spend more than a player is worth but if you want him, you can get him but Wenger isn't the kinda of guy to do that.

Didn't Wenger put in a £40+1M bid for Suarez and he hasn't done too bad recently? Higuian was rumoured to be coming to London. Bacca should have come up on the radar and how can we forget Jackson Martinez and that Twitter argument!

I agree with you about Giroud that he get unfair stick but you have to upgrade on him but a CAM will probably come in.

Original post by sevchenko

Akpom's role at best would have been last 20/10mins of Already won PL games and League Cup starts. I don't see how that warrants a new striker

So Giroud gets injured like last season and then you don't have another good replacement. Welbeck isn't good enough and you need more than one good striker to win the big trophies. Chelsea were fortunate with Diego Costa's hamstrings but had him fit at the beginning of the season to fire them to the title which was wrapped up by Xmas and then no one pushed them. Even the injured Costa in his debut season with injures managed 20 league goals- that's what you need not Sanogo.

Reply 4154

sevchenko

15

Original post by Icecream1

So Giroud gets injured like last season and then you don't have another good replacement. Welbeck isn't good enough and you need more than one good striker to win the big trophies. Chelsea were fortunate with Diego Costa's hamstrings but had him fit at the beginning of the season to fire them to the title which was wrapped up by Xmas and then no one pushed them. Even the injured Costa in his debut season with injures managed 20 league goals- that's what you need not Sanogo.

Welbeck is an more than ideal back up player tbh so I don't know how you can dismiss him as not good enough. Even then at Arsenal our forward line isn't rigid Theo and Alexis can do a job there. Plus Giroud is a pretty sturdy guy he rarely get's injuries or knocks.

Giroud scored 16 goals in the league despite 3 month out. He probably would have found atleast 4 more goals if he was fit during that time. Plus in all comps Costa only got 1 more than Giroud, Once again if he was fit and registered for the CL group stages he would have most likely scored more than Costa all comps.

The gap between him and Costa isn't as big as people make out

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 4155

The Shed End

2

Original post by sevchenko

Welbeck is an more than ideal back up player tbh so I don't know how you can dismiss him as not good enough. Even then at Arsenal our forward line isn't rigid Theo and Alexis can do a job there. Plus Giroud is a pretty sturdy guy he rarely get's injuries or knocks.

Giroud scored 16 goals in the league despite 3 month out. He probably would have found atleast 4 more goals if he was fit during that time. Plus in all comps Costa only got 1 more than Giroud, Once again if he was fit and registered for the CL group stages he would have most likely scored more than Costa all comps.

The gap between him and Costa isn't as big as people make out

Costa was out for around the same amount of time that Giroud was last season, Giroud is a bit of a flat-track bully in all honesty.

Reply 4156

SA-1

16

I think the injury that Giroud had last season was the only time he's been out for us, apart from suspension(s). Even with that, it was a broken bone which he recovered from much sooner than expected.

He's getting better and better, and is becoming more prolific infront of goal. He was out for around three months last season and yet almost scored as many goals as he did the season before, where he played well over 30 games.

Arsene's built a team capable of challenging for the title now. Its literally the last stage, a last stage that the previous teams he's built after 2004 didn't get to because of players leaving at the final hurdle.

With Coqs emergence, we really only desperately needed a solid keeper, which we now have. DM is still a priority, but not as high as it was before Christmas. We will get goals from all over the pitch tbh.

Zurich made a good point about the difference an out and out striker would make. Would probably get us more goals than Giroud does but would probably take goals away from Ramsey, Santi etc - won't bring them in to the game as much as Giroud does.

I genuinely think the injury problems are now behind us, next season shouldn't be as bad with them, which'll mean we'll have give a sustainable title push imo.

Reply 4157

leinad2012

15

Tbf I'd prefer Reus to a striker, as it would make Walcott up to more likely.
It would mean we have 5/6 noteworthy players for the front 3 (sanchez, ox, walcott, giroud, Reus, (Welbeck)), and tbh I'd take Walcott and Giroud sharing the role up top. Those 5(6) would score at least 60(62) goals in the league, add our midfield in and you're looking at 80 odd goals expected at least.

Reply 4158

leinad2012

15

Original post by The Shed End

Costa was out for around the same amount of time that Giroud was last season, Giroud is a bit of a flat-track bully in all honesty.

Scores against United, City (twice), Liverpool last seasom, as well as in the cl (which Costa couldn't manage in 8 games).... Flat track bully... Nah

Reply 4159

ZÃ¼rich

20

Original post by SA-1

I think the injury that Giroud had last season was the only time he's been out for us, apart from suspension(s). Even with that, it was a broken bone which he recovered from much sooner than expected.

He's getting better and better, and is becoming more prolific infront of goal. He was out for around three months last season and yet almost scored as many goals as he did the season before, where he played well over 30 games.

Arsene's built a team capable of challenging for the title now. Its literally the last stage, a last stage that the previous teams he's built after 2004 didn't get to because of players leaving at the final hurdle.

With Coqs emergence, we really only desperately needed a solid keeper, which we now have. DM is still a priority, but not as high as it was before Christmas. We will get goals from all over the pitch tbh.

Zurich made a good point about the difference an out and out striker would make. Would probably get us more goals than Giroud does but would probably take goals away from Ramsey, Santi etc - won't bring them in to the game as much as Giroud does.

I genuinely think the injury problems are now behind us, next season shouldn't be as bad with them, which'll mean we'll have give a sustainable title push imo.

That and the fact our team system has slowly developed to be centred around Giroud playing with his back to goal. We talk about how we're settled and ready to compete for the title but what would happen if we went out and changed striker? Another 6 months of stop start fluidity I'll bet so it's always a trade off.

Obviously if we could sign a Lewandowski it'd be worth the risk but at this stage we're not going to land that kind of world class striker and so marginal upgrades on Giroud as an individual would probably swing back against us in terms of system and fluidity etc.

And the people complaining about Welbeck should remember that behind Thierry Henry was Wiltord/Kanu and that at Chelsea Drogba had the likes of Kalou waiting to come in. Didnt stop them collecting titles.

(edited 8 years ago)

The Arsenal Thread XXIII

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you