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AQA C3 What type of differentiation topic would this type of question be?

Hi, I did a past paper the AQA C3 June 2012 one and I did everything fine apart from when I got to the final question and I didn't have a clue what to do.

The questions which I didn't understand are c and all of d.
Is there a specific name for this type of differentiation with stuff on the bottom, and differentiating tan^-1(ax-b)
as well as differentiating to find the second derivative when it is a fraction like the dy/dx in C.

If there isn't a name for the topic does anyone know where I can find some additional resources with more questions which I can practise on? I don't know how to search for these types of questions as its the more advanced differentiation of C3 which I can't do.
Reply 1
Original post by Sayless
Hi, I did a past paper the AQA C3 June 2012 one and I did everything fine apart from when I got to the final question and I didn't have a clue what to do.

The questions which I didn't understand are c and all of d.
Is there a specific name for this type of differentiation with stuff on the bottom, and differentiating tan^-1(ax-b)
as well as differentiating to find the second derivative when it is a fraction like the dy/dx in C.

If there isn't a name for the topic does anyone know where I can find some additional resources with more questions which I can practise on? I don't know how to search for these types of questions as its the more advanced differentiation of C3 which I can't do.


this is prelude of implicit differentiation which will eventually cover in your board in C4

In C3 you laern that

if x = f(y), then dy/dx = 1 / dx/dy
Reply 2
Original post by TeeEm
this is prelude of implicit differentiation which will eventually cover in your board in C4

In C3 you laern that

if x = f(y), then dy/dx = 1 / dx/dy


So these questions are both 1/dx/dy questions, still for d(ii) I wouldn't have a clue how to differentiate something like that i've never seen it before
Reply 3
Original post by Sayless
So these questions are both 1/dx/dy questions, still for d(ii) I wouldn't have a clue how to differentiate something like that i've never seen it before


For d)ii)
You simply need to differentiate:
11+(x1)2ddx(ddx(ln(x)))\dfrac{1}{1+(x-1)^2}-\dfrac{d}{dx} \left(\dfrac{d}{dx}(\ln(x)) \right)

As for the derivative of arctan(x)\arctan(x), you should calculate the derivative at least once using the method TeeEm suggested, but from then on, I would consider it a quotable result, and I imagine it's in your formula book.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by joostan
For d)ii)
You simply need to differentiate:
11+(x1)2ddx(ddx(ln(x)))\dfrac{1}{1+(x-1)^2}-\dfrac{d}{dx} \left(\dfrac{d}{dx}(\ln(x)) \right)

As for the derivative of arctan(x)\arctan(x), you should calculate the derivative at least once using the method TeeEm suggested, but from then on, I would consider it a quotable result, and I imagine it's in your formula book.


Yeah, I have to differentiate that, but I don't know how to, I can differentiate using chain rule, product rule, quotient rule, but for stuff with stuff squared underneath in a fraction and another fraction I haven't learnt how to differentiate that, do you have a guide or something I could use.
I can't do TeeEm's method on y=tan^-1(x-1)
I ended up with dy/dx = 1/sec^2 y
when I use it from the formula booklet I get the correct answer though
Reply 5
For part di) I got x=2 and x=1 for part dii) do I need to use quotient rule
Reply 6
Original post by Sayless
Yeah, I have to differentiate that, but I don't know how to, I can differentiate using chain rule, product rule, quotient rule, but for stuff with stuff squared underneath in a fraction and another fraction I haven't learnt how to differentiate that, do you have a guide or something I could use.
I can't do TeeEm's method on y=tan^-1(x-1)
I ended up with dy/dx = 1/sec^2 y
when I use it from the formula booklet I get the correct answer though

Yes and you found that sec^2y is x^2-2x+2 so dy/dx=1/x^2-2x+2
Reply 7
Original post by Sayless
Yeah, I have to differentiate that, but I don't know how to, I can differentiate using chain rule, product rule, quotient rule, but for stuff with stuff squared underneath in a fraction and another fraction I haven't learnt how to differentiate that, do you have a guide or something I could use.
I can't do TeeEm's method on y=tan^-1(x-1)
I ended up with dy/dx = 1/sec^2 y
when I use it from the formula booklet I get the correct answer though


Look in your formula booklet: it should say that ddxtan1x=11+x2\displaystyle \frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}x} \tan^{-1}x = \frac{1}{1+x^2} - so in your case, just replace the xx with x1x-1.
Reply 8
Original post by Hassan55
Yes and you found that sec^2y is x^2-2x+2 so dy/dx=1/x^2-2x+2


Ah right yeah I get that part now thanks

Original post by Zacken
Look in your formula booklet: it should say that ddxtan1x=11+x2\displaystyle \frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}x} \tan^{-1}x = \frac{1}{1+x^2} - so in your case, just replace the xx with x1x-1.


I managed to do that now, stuck with d(ii) only now
Reply 9
Part dii) dy/dx=(1/x^2-2x+2) - (1/x) so differentiating first fraction using quotient rule u=1 v=x^2-2x+2 and second fraction would just be -lnx
Reply 10
Original post by Sayless
Ah right yeah I get that part now thanks



I managed to do that now, stuck with d(ii) only now


Well, you need to evalute ddx(arctanxlnx)\frac{d}{dx} (\arctan x - \ln x) then once you've got that, differentiate whatever you have again - what do you get?
Original post by Hassan55
For part di) I got x=2 and x=1 for part dii) do I need to use quotient rule


You don't HAVE to use the quotient rule, but you may as well.
Original post by joostan
You don't HAVE to use the quotient rule, but you may as well.


What other methods are there in order to differentiate a quotient?
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 13
Original post by Zacken
Well, you need to evalute ddx(arctanxlnx)\frac{d}{dx} (\arctan x - \ln x) then once you've got that, differentiate whatever you have again - what do you get?


I'm trying to do the quotient rule for it, I get
u=1
v= x^2 -2x + 2
du/dx = 0
dv/dx = 2x-2

(x^2-2x+2)(0) - (1)(2x-2) / (x^2-2x+2)^2

= -2x+2 / (x^2-2x+2)^2

then for the 1/x i get x^-2

so overall its
-2x+2/(x^2-2x+2)^2 + x^-2

is that right
Reply 14
Original post by Sayless
I'm trying to do the quotient rule for it, I get
u=1
v= x^2 -2x + 2
du/dx = 0
dv/dx = 2x-2

(x^2-2x+2)(0) - (1)(2x-2) / (x^2-2x+2)^2

= -2x+2 / (x^2-2x+2)^2

then for the 1/x i get x^-2

so overall its
-2x+2/(x^2-2x+2)^2 + x^-2

is that right


Almost d/dx(1/x) = -x^(-2) not +
Reply 15
Original post by Hassan55
What other methods are there in order to differentiate a quotient?


This is simply the chain rule with (x2blahblah)1(x^2 - blah blah)^{-1}
Original post by Zacken
This is simply the chain rule with (x2blahblah)1(x^2 - blah blah)^{-1}

Oh yeah of course, thanks
Reply 17
Original post by Zacken
Almost d/dx(1/x) = -x^(-2) not +


Thanks, i got it now
Reply 18
Original post by Sayless
Thanks, i got it now


Great!

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