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Is it islamaphobic to be anti-ISIS?
I would say no. And the posts of the sane muslims in the other thread in this subforum would suggest a sensible, obvious answer to the title's question is also no.
What then of this? Do we agree that it's ridiculous?
What then of this? Do we agree that it's ridiculous?
Scroll to see replies
Yes. They follow an interpretation of Islamic theology - a form of Wahhabism Islam. To be against such ideology, to hate or dislike it greatly and all those who agree/ follow such ideology is Islamophobic by definition.
Which is why the term Islamophobia is essentially meaningless, and no different to discriminating against Nazi ideology or Nazi's.
And before anyone mentions "anti-Semitism", that term is clearly a different thing entirely to "Islamophobia" because Semite is an ethnic term not an ideology. The term you are looking for is "anti-Zionist/ Zionist".
And OP, the NUS are a joke. I wouldn't listen to anything they say or pass.
Which is why the term Islamophobia is essentially meaningless, and no different to discriminating against Nazi ideology or Nazi's.
And before anyone mentions "anti-Semitism", that term is clearly a different thing entirely to "Islamophobia" because Semite is an ethnic term not an ideology. The term you are looking for is "anti-Zionist/ Zionist".
And OP, the NUS are a joke. I wouldn't listen to anything they say or pass.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by keromedic
I would say no. And the posts of the sane muslims in the other thread in this subforum would suggest a sensible, obvious answer to the title's question is also no.
What then of this? Do we agree that it's ridiculous?
What then of this? Do we agree that it's ridiculous?
I don't think so, they follow various passages of the Quran but not all of it as such I do not think they can be considered 'Islamic' so to speak.
Original post by AlwaysWatching
Yes. They follow an interpretation of Islamic theology - a form of Wahhabism Islam. To be against such ideology, to hate or dislike it greatly and all those who agree/ follow such ideology is Islamophobic by definition.
Which is why the term Islamophobia is essentially meaningless, and no different to discriminating against Nazi ideology or Nazi's.
And before anyone mentions "anti-Semitism" that is clearly a different thing entirely to "Islamophobia". The term you are looking for is "anti-Zionist/ Zionist".
Which is why the term Islamophobia is essentially meaningless, and no different to discriminating against Nazi ideology or Nazi's.
And before anyone mentions "anti-Semitism" that is clearly a different thing entirely to "Islamophobia". The term you are looking for is "anti-Zionist/ Zionist".
Hating something doesn't mean you have phobia of it, I do not like lettuce, doesn't mean I have a phobia of it.
Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism are different things that are not the same in any way??
Original post by sw651
Hating something doesn't mean you have phobia of it, I do not like lettuce, doesn't mean I have a phobia of it.
Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism are different things that are not the same in any way??
Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism are different things that are not the same in any way??
Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim sentiment) is a term for prejudice against, hatred towards, or fear of the religion of Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force. (google it if you haven't got time to go into the scholarly text)
If you hate political Islam, or any form of Islamic ideology/ sect (including ISIS and their Wahhabism) then you are an Islamophobe. And correct, anti Semitism and anti Zionism are different. The first is not acceptable, the second is.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by AlwaysWatching
Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim sentiment) is a term for prejudice against, hatred towards, or fear of the religion of Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force. (google it if you haven't got time to go into the scholarly text)
If you hate political Islam, or any form of Islamic ideology/ sect (including ISIS and their Wahhabism) then you are an Islamophobe. And correct, anti Semitism and anti Zionism are different. The first is not acceptable, the second is.
If you hate political Islam, or any form of Islamic ideology/ sect (including ISIS and their Wahhabism) then you are an Islamophobe. And correct, anti Semitism and anti Zionism are different. The first is not acceptable, the second is.
Then theoretically it is not a 'phobia' a phobia is an irrational fear of something biologically speaking. Surely it is anti-Islamist?
Original post by sw651
Then theoretically it is not a 'phobia' a phobia is an irrational fear of something biologically speaking. Surely it is anti-Islamist?
Fear or aversion to. It is not always used in the medical sense.
Original post by sw651
Then theoretically it is not a 'phobia' a phobia is an irrational fear of something biologically speaking. Surely it is anti-Islamist?
"Phobia" can include hatred or an intense dislike. I gave you the definition of Islamophobia, it is not my own opinion - it's not a debate to be had with me, I didn't define it in that way.
We aren't talking about biology. Science and the humanities define things or use terms in different ways.
(edited 8 years ago)
As stupid as that is, I do question why on earth a student organisation needs to take any kind of position on middle eastern extremists. It has nothing to do with the organizations purpose, why is that something they need an official statement on? Does every union need to make a statement officially condemning IS?
Original post by keromedic
Fear or aversion to. It is not always used in the medical sense.
I see
Original post by AlwaysWatching
Yes. They follow an interpretation of Islamic theology - a form of Wahhabism Islam. To be against such ideology, to hate or dislike it greatly and all those who agree/ follow such ideology is Islamophobic by definition.
Can't wahabism islam be considered to be a prevision of islam as it focuses on more radical parts while ignoring the more tolerant aspects of the religion? If so many muslims are against then I think it stands to reason that criticism of the state's actions is not islamophobic.
While I would not compare islamophobia to anti-semitism, I would say that ISIS' actions are analogous to fringe groups like the KKK or the Ugandan LRA. Most would agree that such groups aren't representative of Christianity as a whole and thus criticism is not christophobic
And OP, the NUS are a joke. I wouldn't listen to anything they say or pass.
I don't disagree but in this case, it's not a unique opinion. I've seen it echoed elsewhere.
Original post by lucaf
As stupid as that is, I do question why on earth a student organisation needs to take any kind of position on middle eastern extremists. It has nothing to do with the organizations purpose, why is that something they need an official statement on? Does every union need to make a statement officially condemning IS?
It's very unPC to be critical of islam because most people in the faith are of colour.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by keromedic
Can't wahabism islam be considered to be a prevision of islam as it focuses on more radical parts while ignoring the more tolerant aspects of the religion? If so many muslims are against then I think it stands to reason that criticism of the state's actions is not islamophobic.
While I would not compare islamophobia to anti-semitism, I would say that ISIS' actions are analogous to fringe groups like the KKK or the Ugandan LRA. Most would agree that such groups aren't representative of Christianity as a whole and thus criticism is not christophobic
.
While I would not compare islamophobia to anti-semitism, I would say that ISIS' actions are analogous to fringe groups like the KKK or the Ugandan LRA. Most would agree that such groups aren't representative of Christianity as a whole and thus criticism is not christophobic
.
Wahabism Islam might be a more radical form of Islam in contrast to the form of Islam that Muslims in the west follow, but it has significant popularity in the Middle east and is a sect in the encompassing branch of Islam. Whilst I am not saying all Muslims are hard-line conservatives, there is a significant proportion that is. That must be empathised with. Hence the reason why Islamophobia is a meaningless term. I of course don't think ISIS are representative of all Muslims, but that still does not make them not Islamic. If you dislike Islam, or have a hatred with either moderate western Islam or the hard-line conservative form in terms of ideology (the same way people hate other ideologies/ religions such as capitalism, fascism, devil worshippers/ Catholicism), then you are Islamophobic. I don't think Islamophobia is a bad thing either, as because as I say, it is a meaningless term the same way people have an intense hatred for politicised Nazi ideology.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by lucaf
As stupid as that is, I do question why on earth a student organisation needs to take any kind of position on middle eastern extremists. It has nothing to do with the organizations purpose, why is that something they need an official statement on? Does every union need to make a statement officially condemning IS?
Great point.
Original post by Attics
then I guess that my whole muslim family is islamaphobic
Most people are Islamophobic, Muslim or not. If you hate or dislike politicised Islam (any branch) then under current definitions, you are an Islamophobe.
Original post by AlwaysWatching
If you hate political Islam, or any form of Islamic ideology/ sect (including ISIS and their Wahhabism) then you are an Islamophobe.
Do you consider yourself to be an Islamophobe?
Original post by Ascend
Do you consider yourself to be an Islamophobe?
Well yes, because I dislike politicised Islam and hate certain sects of Islam because of its values, teachings and beliefs. That defines me as an Islamophobe.
However, I don't hate Muslims, I just disagree with them strongly. The same way I don't hate Nazi's/ Communists/ Scientologists etc, I just disagree with them. I hate and fear their ideology/ religion, not them as a person.
(edited 8 years ago)
It is not Islamophobic to be anti-ISIS.
Original post by lucaf
As stupid as that is, I do question why on earth a student organisation needs to take any kind of position on middle eastern extremists. It has nothing to do with the organizations purpose, why is that something they need an official statement on? Does every union need to make a statement officially condemning IS?
I understand there is an interest in finding out the political stance of organisations, but the NUS (or what remains of it) has little to no effect on politics, much less so with foreign politics. Whatever the stance/view the organisation as whole may hold, they must remain impartial, as the motion included 'solidarity with kurdish forces'
..you should've expected the current response from the NUS.The motion was created by ----- and Clifford Fleming , one of whom wants/wanted to be the NUS president
and the other responded with:However in a sign that even the proponents of the motion are wavering on the issue, Mr Fleming, the national co-chair of the Young Green Party and an NEC member, told The Independent that the bill, which he co-proposed, failed to pass as it could encourage intervention.
He said: “It was voted down due to a general feeling that the motion currently could lead to pro-interventionism – which nobody wanted.”
Despite proposing the motion with Mr Cooper, he said: “I find it completely inappropriate how it was claimed that identity politics has a stranglehold on the NEC. Of course identity politics has a big voice on the NUS NEC; it is for those who self-define and lead campaigns to voice who they represent.”
He said: “It was voted down due to a general feeling that the motion currently could lead to pro-interventionism – which nobody wanted.”
Despite proposing the motion with Mr Cooper, he said: “I find it completely inappropriate how it was claimed that identity politics has a stranglehold on the NEC. Of course identity politics has a big voice on the NUS NEC; it is for those who self-define and lead campaigns to voice who they represent.”
I believe the NUS made the right choice - a majority abstained or voted against the motion. They shouldn't have to agree that ISIL is terrible, that much is obvious, but they shouldn't have to agree with support for 'kurdish forces'.
(edited 3 years ago)
Just like Judaism and Zionism are two completely different things, hating Zionism doesn't make you an anti Semite.
Zionism hijacked the name of Judaism to do their dirty work just like ISIS hijacked the name of Islam. hating ISIS does not make you Islamaphobic as I would be an Islamophobic Muslim by that definition.
Zionism hijacked the name of Judaism to do their dirty work just like ISIS hijacked the name of Islam. hating ISIS does not make you Islamaphobic as I would be an Islamophobic Muslim by that definition.
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