Should we abolish the Monarchy?
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Original post by Andy98
she's a deity who has two birthdays, remember? her 2nd birthday is a bank holiday I'm sure
Original post by sleepysnooze
she's a deity who has two birthdays, remember? her 2nd birthday is a bank holiday I'm sure
Eh
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Original post by Rinsed
Good grief you're a humourless bastard.
Despite my (obviously entirely serious) comments, I think it goes without saying people just aren't prosecuted for criticising the monarchy, not least due to contradictions with rights legislation, and if they ever were I doubt a jury wouldn't convict anyway.
That said, the monarchy is obviously a massive patriotic symbol in this country and has been since we've been a country. If you don't like that then tough. To be honest, the monarchy as an institution is such a cornerstone of our other institutions that, if you really hate it that much, I'd ask what about Britain you love? It's not a coincidence that republicanism in this country has largely (though not entirely) come from a segment of the left which despises much about Britain and her history and institutions.
Despite my (obviously entirely serious) comments, I think it goes without saying people just aren't prosecuted for criticising the monarchy, not least due to contradictions with rights legislation, and if they ever were I doubt a jury wouldn't convict anyway.
That said, the monarchy is obviously a massive patriotic symbol in this country and has been since we've been a country. If you don't like that then tough. To be honest, the monarchy as an institution is such a cornerstone of our other institutions that, if you really hate it that much, I'd ask what about Britain you love? It's not a coincidence that republicanism in this country has largely (though not entirely) come from a segment of the left which despises much about Britain and her history and institutions.
Well, it's context. I assumed it's a serious discussion, and I take the class system and lack of social mobility extremely seriously because it's damaging to our country and wastes lives, just as some people would not like hmour on a thread about gay rights, and homophobia. And, you may have posted with irony, but when you face so many deeply conservative, or at least Tory, not quite the same(often younger)monarchists who genuinely would love a situation such as you posted to be the norm, and who believe monarchism and class deference to be the sole arbiter of patriotism, then I assumed you may be another advocating it, and it bothers me. OK?
More like should we abolish parliament.
Given the state of our government as it stands, with all the bureaucratic nonsense and a lack of connection with the electorate I think I would probably prefer to live under a total Monarchy.
God save the Queen!
Given the state of our government as it stands, with all the bureaucratic nonsense and a lack of connection with the electorate I think I would probably prefer to live under a total Monarchy.
God save the Queen!
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Well, it's context. I assumed it's a serious discussion, and I take the class system and lack of social mobility extremely seriously because it's damaging to our country and wastes lives, just as some people would not like hmour on a thread about gay rights, and homophobia. And, you may have posted with irony, but when you face so many deeply conservative, or at least Tory, not quite the same(often younger)monarchists who genuinely would love a situation such as you posted to be the norm, and who believe monarchism and class deference to be the sole arbiter of patriotism, then I assumed you may be another advocating it, and it bothers me. OK?
Don't assume all us monarchists are ultra-Tories. In fact I think it's safe to say it's completely wrong to assume even most of them are. The monarchy appeals to people of all classes, races and creeds, and that's its strength - the diversity and breadth of its support.
Class and social immobility are not symptoms of having a monarchy. They are a byproduct of the prevailing socioeconomic system, but there are republics that have it worse and monarchies that have it way less. The most socially mobile states in the world are the Scandinavian monarchies, after all. Removing the monarchy wouldn't do a jot to improving British social mobility.
In principle yes - emblematic of a hierarchical society. Not the cause, in the 21st century - look at Scandinavia - but emblematic. It takes a rational person to realise that a prince/princess isn't worth more in human terms than you are, but the Sun is the top selling paper in the UK, so people aren't rational.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by rockrunride
In principle yes - emblematic of a hierarchical society. Not the cause, in the 21st century - look at Scandinavia - but emblematic. It takes a rational person to realise that a prince/princess isn't worth more in human terms than you are, but the Sun is the top selling paper in the UK, so people aren't rational.
Well again - speaking for myself - I am capable of grasping that the Queen is no 'better' than me, but I still consider the monarchy to be more useful than harmful.
Original post by Drewski
Is it that time of the month already?
OP, wouldn't it have been easier to search for any one of the hundred or so other threads that have been done on this topic this year? Can guarantee you'll get the same answers.
OP, wouldn't it have been easier to search for any one of the hundred or so other threads that have been done on this topic this year? Can guarantee you'll get the same answers.
Wait till a few weeks after the Queen (long delayed we all hope) passes on. Then it will be the only topic of conversation.
Original post by rockrunride
In principle yes - emblematic of a hierarchical society. Not the cause, in the 21st century - look at Scandinavia - but emblematic. It takes a rational person to realise that a prince/princess isn't worth more in human terms than you are, but the Sun is the top selling paper in the UK, so people aren't rational.
The sense that princes and princesses are better than the rest is deeply imbued in loads of people, it's a hangover of millennia of rule by aristocrats that is hard to shake off. Just look at all the 'little princess' books, stories, toys, etc aimed at little girls and the huge popularity of shows like Game of Thrones.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
The sense that princes and princesses are better than the rest is deeply imbued in loads of people, it's a hangover of millennia of rule by aristocrats that is hard to shake off. Just look at all the 'little princess' books, stories, toys, etc aimed at little girls and the huge popularity of shows like Game of Thrones.
Er..... Game of Thrones is hardly a propaganda piece for monarchy.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Er..... Game of Thrones is hardly a propaganda piece for monarchy.
No, but it is obsessed with monarchs.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
No, but it is obsessed with monarchs.
In the same way that Star Wars is obsessed with spaceships and the West Wing is obsessed with presidents!
Original post by gladders
In the same way that Star Wars is obsessed with spaceships and the West Wing is obsessed with presidents!
Star Wars is obsessed with Monarchy too and arguably so was West Wing, they were always banging on about how the US is so much better without one!
Original post by Fullofsurprises
No, but it is obsessed with monarchs.
Sorry, we will contact the producers immediately and tell them to change the plotline and rename it Game of nothing to do with royals because fullofsuprises doesn't like it
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Star Wars is obsessed with Monarchy too and arguably so was West Wing, they were always banging on about how the US is so much better without one!
Well, they would say that, wouldn't they
Original post by sw651
Sorry, we will contact the producers immediately and tell them to change the plotline and rename it Game of nothing to do with royals because fullofsuprises doesn't like it
I like it plenty. That doesn't mean it's not obsessed with royalty.
When is the poll closing?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I like it plenty. That doesn't mean it's not obsessed with royalty.
Meh, wouldn't be a good story if it wasn't
Original post by Use Err Name
No, leave poor old Lizzie alone.
She has great credibility and gravitas. No republican is talking that sort of time scale. I do think Charles will do serious damage to the monarchist side, he's an idiot.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
No, but it is obsessed with monarchs.
Well duh. That's the point
It's full of political power politics that shows how the reality of feudal systems were nothing like the positive myth it gets portrayed in.Pablo Iglesias gave a copy Game of Thrones to their Monarchy to show subversively how heads of state/regimes are never permanent, especially in time of crisis
Podemos use pop culture to get a more popular sneaky anti monarchy message across in a political climate where it would be suicide for them to start shouting about their republicanism. I just read the English translation of his book and he brings up Game of Thrones a couple of times to explain how politics works.
Also I dunno whether it's a book vs TV show thing but characters like Tyrion and The Spider make references to how it is always the plebs who suffer. They don't at all glorify Feudalism. George Martin has said he partly wrote the series in response to type of Disney portrayal of princesses and feudal systems, the way peasant boys talk to princesses in those films would have had their tongues cut out for example. Sansa Stark embodied that entity. She thinks it is all Cinderella and brave Knights rescuing princesses and protecting the poor. Then it all comes crashing down.
Would you rather live in a constitutional monarch where there is socialized health care or somewhere like America that is a republic with no such thing? Whilst at heart I am a republican there are much bigger things to sort out. Plus the current monarchy is too popular. Maybe Charles will mess it up
I knwo what you mean though. From a very young age I was thinking about things like how films and fiction center around interesting characters who have lot of agency. But that isn normally because the people don;t want to see the drudgery of the slaves/serfs/workers that allow the heroes to do their heroe stuff.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Star Wars is obsessed with Monarchy too and arguably so was West Wing, they were always banging on about how the US is so much better without one!
Yet it is a much more unequal and oligarchical society.
But yeah. Princess Leia
Star Wars is simple good vs evil myth and pulls on loads of various tropes like of which you speak. Game of Thrones does not in the way star wars does.
(edited 8 years ago)
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