Atheist Q and A

Not sure you're in the right thread....

Anyway its all spiritual and multi dimensional, you won't get it looking at it in one-dimension.

Okay, but why do I have to trust the idea that genetic information could prove/disprove the link?

Happy Thor Day for yesterday! X

So you base everything on unproven stuff.

Because of all the centuries of scientific experimentation that has tested this and confirmed it. If you wanted to you could do a biology degree then conduct these experiments yourself and see.

What you seem to be getting at is an issue which is no longer relevant to the specific question you asked, now you're just moving towards the general "why can we trust anything?". While this may theoretically be an interesting issue the reality is that there are things we have to take for granted and as assumptions in our day to day life so as not to be driven mad by the questioning of everything. Your "why do I have to trust this" can be extended to virtually any scenario from the trust that your car brake cables are intact before driving to the trust that the food your mum's serving you for dinner isn't poisoned.

You got it. There's no way to actual prove anything. You just gotta have trust and believe (faith).

My initial argument was that cause cannot exist outside of our universe, because some believe that God is this cause and that he is conveniently undetectable because he is outside of our universe.

I have not misunderstood. Simultaneous causation does not exist, wherever you try to place it. It is only argued over by philosophers, as scientists have abandoned the idea of simultaneity and superior frames of reference. 'Atomise' that ball resting on a cushion and rethink the idea down to the quantum level of the electron.

No, I do not say there is no cause and effect in quantum behaviour. I say that you cannot expect Newtonian determinism on such a small scale because it doesn't exist on that scale. You've misquoted me a little there.

In what way is quantum mechanics deterministic?

No, I do not say that all interpretations of QM are correct. This literally makes no sense.

Metaphysics is not a science. If you are going to talk meaningfully about the physical world, you will need to fashion yourself a scientific hat.

You cannot be seriously comparing Einstein to Hume?! The latter lived IN NEWTON'S TIME. The world had only just been introduced to determinism! Laws were approximations! Inertial mass and gravitational mass were two separate things and we were assuming superior frames of reference and other inaccuracies such as.... simultaneity!

We do not need to include ideas of philosophy in conversations regarding QM. They are only a distraction.

I think you have a misunderstanding of the concept of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, can you expand on what you mean by this in this instance?

Not really. The general religious faith is in something for which there is zero evidence whatsoever, the mundane every day to day faith that my car brake cables are intact and the food my mum serves me isn't poisoned is based mostly on probability and the point is that we could actually test for these things if we wanted to. I could actually get down and look at the brake cables or test my food for particular toxic substances. God is something for which even many theists say there is no physical evidence.

And maybe I can flip the question on you. Why do I have to trust that we have to trust and have faith?

You don't have to. Everything you believe is based on trust and testimony. Even the fact that light exists.

God is spirit not form. That's why we have Jesus.

Jesus is God in bodily form, accessible to us.

Anyway its all spiritual and multi dimensional, you won't get it looking at it in one-dimension.

You don't have to. Everything you believe is based on trust and testimony. Even the fact that light exists.

In the largest sense, yes, but not really a helpful worldview to live by. And that doesn't mean that all things are subject to blind faith as the physical world proves that we can test and confirm certain things while we can't others (disregarding the fact that you could say we don't even know the world exists because then you can't say anything exists which means you cannot even say your religion or god is the right one because technically with that mindset you can't even prove you exist let alone God).

I can test for light, which has measurable quantities... what is the test for god?

The point isn't whether we don't know if the world exists. The point is we have faith that the world exists.

I can test for light, which has measurable quantities... what is the test for god?

You asked about how molecules form no? Quantum Electrodynamics is the theory of of how light interacts with matter and explains the formation of molecules and explains much of what you see around you.

Ummm I don't think so. My original question was how was the first cell brought about rather than all of matter. I just assumed the chance of the right molecules reacting to form one nucleotide as a result of nature would be really small let alone a whole cell.

Maybe so, but incredibly unlikely events happen all the time, it's the nature of probability and I think the current consensus is that the molecule that first became "alive" only had to happen once.