Christian transgender man, ask me anything

Original post by olliecking

I am a Christian in vocational training and discernment to be ordained as an Anglican (Church of England) priest

I am also a transgender man who began his transition 5 years ago

Ask me absolutely anything

So you think God made a mistake and put your soul (which, according to Christ, has no gender) in the wrong body?

I think this is my cue to leave the Church of England and resume my theological travels. I've been settled too long as it is.

Reply 5

Original post by 04MR17

Is Brian the messiah? Or is he a very naughty boy? :mmm:

Yes.

did you face any complications in you starting to become a priest? (because of being transgender)

Yannel or Laurel?

OP

Original post by CoolCavy

Good for you dude :jumphug:

Have you felt supported by your church and the religious people around you?

very. The bishop of my diocese, my school Chaplain all the years ago, the curate who baptised me, my vocations mentor. The supports been without reserve

Reply 9

OP

Original post by Tootles

So you think God made a mistake and put your soul (which, according to Christ, has no gender) in the wrong body?

I think this is my cue to leave the Church of England and resume my theological travels. I've been settled too long as it is.

No I don't think God "made a mistake" and put my soul into the "wrong body". It seems clear that God doesn't micromanage suffering. Suffering is so random. It's origin is rooted in chance, not in the hands of God.

Are you saying that my ordination has triggered a cue for you to leave the Church of England? I must say I'm very saddened to hear that. Do you want to talk about it?

Reply 10

OP

Original post by laurawatt

did you face any complications in you starting to become a priest? (because of being transgender)

So far all I've come across is support and understanding without reserve, although I'd be naive to completely rule out the idea that at some point I will come across judgement. I'm sure I'll face some disapproving eyes, some gossip in seminary and as my time as a deacon there on. But that shouldn't dismay me from doing what God's called me to do

Reply 11

JaydorIV

18

Original post by olliecking

No I don't think God "made a mistake" and put my soul into the "wrong body". It seems clear that God doesn't micromanage suffering. Suffering is so random. It's origin is rooted in chance, not in the hands of God.

Are you saying that my ordination has triggered a cue for you to leave the Church of England? I must say I'm very saddened to hear that. Do you want to talk about it?

if you believe God didn't make a mistake, why are you changing your body. don't you think God made you exactly as he wanted including your gender?
do you think God will address you as the gender you now want to be referred to? by being transgender, I'm assuming you now dress as the opposite gender and I think God will still see you as the same gender he made you therefore you'd dressing as the opposite gender he made you so if I were correct about how God sees you (the original gender he made you to be) then according to Deuteronomy 22:5, you're currently an abomination to the Lord.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 12

Original post by olliecking

No I don't think God "made a mistake" and put my soul into the "wrong body". It seems clear that God doesn't micromanage suffering. Suffering is so random. It's origin is rooted in chance, not in the hands of God.

Are you saying that my ordination has triggered a cue for you to leave the Church of England? I must say I'm very saddened to hear that. Do you want to talk about it?

Chance? I understand the biology pretty well - you likely had too much testosterone in your system during puberty, which influenced your brain into being more masculine than it "should" be, and so you've decided this means you should be a man. This is a delusion. Now, I'm open-minded, and most of my friends are (and I myself am) bisexual, but I'm afraid that doesn't cover mistaking a hormone imbalance for misassigned gender. You're trying to change a fundamental truth about yourself.

I actually had this conversation with a friend who since started the transitioning process, and she (at the time) was a bit of an uber-sexual weirdo, when he adopted a male identity it was almost like he was just living a fetishistic fantasy (I know a lot about this person that they wouldn't tell just anyone, if you know what I mean).

(I know this sounds backhanded, but please don't take any of this as an insult or as a personal attack. I have no reason to believe that you're anythng other than a great person - I just can't reconcile such a fundamental change to oneself with the priesthood.)

So, I'm saying your ordination is one of a few things that is making me reconsider my position within the Church. I can't simply leave, as I'm in a position of some responsibility myself. However, there are many things about the Church of England that I can't agree with, and my priest isn't the kind of man with whom you can have an intelligent conversation (he's one of these young "y'all gotta GET SOME JEEEEEZUS" types, he's come into a rather Catholic parish like a evangelical bull into a china shop). So super-Christian and such blind devotion to the Articles as I've never seen, even though half of them - along with half the BCP - are/is irrelevant today. He's of thoroughly average intelligence, and a rather narrow mind, and that's incredibly frustrating when trying to work past issues he's introduced into our parish. His answer to any question is either "because God is good" or "because I'm the priest and I said".

I don't know if I want to talk about it. That would be a narrow thing I think. Maybe I should reconsider what I am as a Christian, or something. Maybe I should try and get to know you, maybe there's more I've missed - C only ever talked about it in a completely sexual way, having found out about a fetish we share and very stridently expressed a desire to explore them with me, which rather unnerved me.

I always was a theological nomad though. There are no churches in my area that match my (Orthodox) faith; I only attend an Anglican church because being a Christian is more important than what denomination you are.

/essay

Original post by JaydorIV

if you believe God didn't make a mistake, why are you changing your body. don't you think God made you exactly as he wanted including your gender?
do you think God will address you as the gender you now want to be referred to? by being transgender, I'm assuming you now dress as the opposite gender and I think God will still see you as the same gender he made you therefore you'd dressing as the opposite gender he made you so if I were correct about how God sees you (the original gender he made you to be) then according to Deuteronomy 22:5, you're currently an abomination to the Lord.

OP (in their own belief) wouldn't be transvesting. I wouldn't go so far as to call anyone an abomination though. Besides, citing OT law when most of it has been fulfilled/superceded by the NT is a good way to write yourself out of a conversation with Christians.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 13

JaydorIV

18

Original post by Tootles

OP (in their own belief) wouldn't be transvesting. I wouldn't go so far as to call anyone an abomination though. Besides, citing OT law when most of it has been fulfilled/superceded by the NT is a good way to write yourself out of a conversation with Christians.

what does OP stand for

I wasn't calling them an abomination as if it were my opinion, I'm literally reciting what God said about those who cross dress

ritual laws superceded, yes, but civil laws are not, also, in terms of it being fulfilled that means following the commandments aren't counted unto us for rightousness but rather our faith. that doesn't mean we disregard them. even if we did, it doesn't change what God thinks of certain people.

.

Reply 14

04MR17

Volunteer Section Leader

22

Original post by 04MR17

Is Brian the messiah? Or is he a very naughty boy? :mmm:

Erm hello please :poke:

Reply 15

Ecds

13

Original post by olliecking

I am a Christian in vocational training and discernment to be ordained as an Anglican (Church of England) priest

I am also a transgender man who began his transition 5 years ago

Ask me absolutely anything

That's awesome to hear 😊

Do you have any friends who are also transitioning? If so are any of them if a different faith or atheists? In your experience how does one's faith or lack thereof change their experience of transitioning?

Thank you 😊

Reply 16

Original post by JaydorIV

what does OP stand for

I wasn't calling them an abomination as if it were my opinion, I'm literally reciting what God said about those who cross dress

ritual laws superceded, yes, but civil laws are not, also, in terms of it being fulfilled that means following the commandments aren't counted unto us for rightousness but rather our faith. that doesn't mean we disregard them. even if we did, it doesn't change what God thinks of certain people.

.

"Original Poster" or "Original Post". "OP" can refer either to the initial post in a thread or the person who made it.

Frankly, I take issue with anyone who merely "recites" scripture. Christ himself said that those who stick to the letter of the law rather than the spirit thereof are completely in the wrong - also the whole law was expressed through the two commandments Christ gave: to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength; and to love your neighbour as yourself. Crossdressing does not preclude the ability to do these things. The whole point of what we are taught as Christians is that none of the old laws matter, provided you love God and your "neighbour" (ie everyone), and always act accordingly. Calling someone an abomination doesn't strike me as an act of love. God turns away what he "thinks of certain people", that's the whole bloody point of Christianity. Maybe that sounds hypocritical of me, given what I said before - though my own opinion is that transsexuality is not a condition of your gender being misassigned, but one of hormonal, physiological, and maybe psychological disorder, for which there will be a remedy.

Frankly what you've said strikes me as rather Pharisee.

Reply 17

JaydorIV

18

Original post by Tootles

"Original Poster" or "Original Post". "OP" can refer either to the initial post in a thread or the person who made it.

Frankly, I take issue with anyone who merely "recites" scripture. Christ himself said that those who stick to the letter of the law rather than the spirit thereof are completely in the wrong - also the whole law was expressed through the two commandments Christ gave: to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength; and to love your neighbour as yourself. Crossdressing does not preclude the ability to do these things. The whole point of what we are taught as Christians is that none of the old laws matter, provided you love God and your "neighbour" (ie everyone), and always act accordingly. Calling someone an abomination doesn't strike me as an act of love. God turns away what he "thinks of certain people", that's the whole bloody point of Christianity. Maybe that sounds hypocritical of me, given what I said before - though my own opinion is that transsexuality is not a condition of your gender being misassigned, but one of hormonal, physiological, and maybe psychological disorder, for which there will be a remedy.

Frankly what you've said strikes me as rather Pharisee.

interesting, may I ask what verse it was that Jesus said about sticking to scripture only? I may have missed that.

cross dressing isn't loving to God because he sees those who do that as an abomination

but also, I think it's loving to show someone from the Bible that this is what God is thinking of you and to prompt them to change rather that to encourage it. if someone is fornicating for example, its not loving to condone it and act like it's fine when it's clearly a sin, you'd gently reproach or rebuke them so they repent and be right with God again.

I may come across as harsh or judgy (i'm trying not to be) by calling them an abomination, and the Bible teaches to judge how you'd want to be judged, so I do just that, so I'd personally appreciate harsh rebuke sometimes as I see that to be loving showing that they care about whether I am right with God. but In this case I'm not rebuking them just simply asking questions.

I don't think I'm a Pharisee because they judged to make themselves seem better and they looked down on people which I'm not doing. and were mainly hypocrites who always showed off the 'good works' they did which I don't think I am.

but i appreciate you reminding me that the whole law is expressed in two commandments.👌

Reply 18

OP

Original post by JaydorIV

if you believe God didn't make a mistake, why are you changing your body. don't you think God made you exactly as he wanted including your gender?
do you think God will address you as the gender you now want to be referred to? by being transgender, I'm assuming you now dress as the opposite gender and I think God will still see you as the same gender he made you therefore you'd dressing as the opposite gender he made you so if I were correct about how God sees you (the original gender he made you to be) then according to Deuteronomy 22:5, you're currently an abomination to the Lord.

How can God make a mistake? That would mean he is flawed.These things just happen. As I said, clearly creation isn't micromanaged. All you need to do is look at siamese twins and other horrific physical conditions to see that. In my instance, I'm not a scientist, but science has theorised that it may be something to do with hormones in the womb, the wrong amount being produced, or something like that. I'm not an expert.

Have you also read Deuteronomy 22:28-29 where it says if a man rapes a woman he should marry her for as long as he lives and pay her father fifty shekels? Or Deuteronomy 21:18-21, where it says that if a son is rebellious hes to be taken to the towns gate and stoned to death? The Book of Deuteronomy was very likely divinely inspired, but that doesn't mean it contents are inerrant. It was written by Moses, not God. It's about people trying to follow God in the best ways they can. Did they do it in the most loving? No, they didnt. I take a progressive approach to the Bible because I see it to be the most logical. The Bibles the word of God through man, the word of man about God; Not the word of God full stop, not the word of God about man.

Reply 19

OP