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# Ex-Muslim, now Atheist - ASK ME ANYTHING! Watch

1. (Original post by arrow900)
Assume that there are as many possible beliefs as the human mind can create. To date, all such possibilities ( including Atheism) have no proof or disproof ( enlighten me if you have either of these).
Since there is only one scenario that is true, from our perspective all such possibilities are equally likely to be true.

Any such evidence that has been collected, so far, clearly has not lead to the conclusion that the universe created itself or else I'm sure such a theory would have ended this argument long ago.
but that is not how probability works. A prime example of this is that flipping a coin is not 50/50 its more 52/48 with it being more likely to land and the side that was facing up when flipped. Just because you have 2 options, or x number of options does not mean the probability that you get option y is 1/X. That is the assumption that the process is totally random. Take our case. If only one can be true and we assume the truth is y then the likely hood x is right is 0. Whilst the likelihood y is right is 100%. Other wise we are not talking about objective probability. But a pseudoprobabilty. The better description would be, assuming you choose your religious stance randomly the likelihood that your stance is correct is 1/r, where r= the number of religious stances in existence (assume that it has to be one already in existence). However i know of nobody that chooses religion randomly.
2. (Original post by garfeeled)
but that is not how probability works. A prime example of this is that flipping a coin is not 50/50 its more 52/48 with it being more likely to land and the side that was facing up when flipped. Just because you have 2 options, or x number of options does not mean the probability that you get option y is 1/X. That is the assumption that the process is totally random. Take our case. If only one can be true and we assume the truth is y then the likely hood x is right is 0. Whilst the likelihood y is right is 100%. Other wise we are not talking about objective probability. But a pseudoprobabilty. The better description would be, assuming you choose your religious stance randomly the likelihood that your stance is correct is 1/r, where r= the number of religious stances in existence (assume that it has to be one already in existence). However i know of nobody that chooses religion randomly.
Yes and atheism would also have a probability of 1/r which is the point I'm making.

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3. (Original post by arrow900)
Yes and atheism would also have a probability of 1/r which is the point I'm making.

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No it wouldn't
4. (Original post by arrow900)
Yes and atheism would also have a probability of 1/r which is the point I'm making.

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only if you picked randomly. Which, as said, nobody does.
5. (Original post by mightyfrog2_10)
but the afterlife is a fact.
But you have no evidence for that. Now if I did ask you to provide evidence you would probably just happily quote the Quran fully content with the justification you've provided. Sure you could claim that I have no proof after life doesn't exist, but the burden of proof wouldn't be on me as I'm not the one making an irrationa claim. If I said flying spaghetti monsters exist, sure you can't disprove that they don't but empirical evidence would suggest that they don't. The same principle applies here.
6. (Original post by mightyfrog2_10)
but the afterlife is a fact.
At most it's a hypothesis. But that's only relying on 'evidence' from religious texts.
7. (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
No it wouldn't
This is becoming a pattern. OK let's turn the tables. Why is it that Atheism is more likely to be true than Theism?

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8. (Original post by arrow900)
This is becoming a pattern. OK let's turn the tables. Why is it that Atheism is more likely to be true than Theism?

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Because there is no evidence any god exists
9. (Original post by Bill_Gates)
Well done you shall live a beautiful life with a free mind.
Says the one who said the genocide of muslims in Burma was a good thing amazing what a "free mind" does to you eh

sorry for bringing it up all the time but what you said that day was the worst post I've seen in my two years on here, whenever I see your name it reminds me of that awful day
10. (Original post by Law-Hopeful)
PRSOM

Some people...
And people say theists are illogical...
11. (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
Because there is no evidence any god exists
Oh come on I thought Atheists were meant to be the logical ones.

There is no evidence that God does not exist. So we are back to square one.

I can't help but feel that the only reason you atheists reject religion is because you simply want to disobey God. I mean what else am I supposed to think when you put forward such weak argument like the one I have quoted.
12. (Original post by arrow900)
Oh come on I thought Atheists were meant to be the logical ones.

There is no evidence that God does not exist. So we are back to square one.

I can't help but feel that the only reason you atheists reject religion is because you simply want to disobey God. I mean what else am I supposed to think when you put forward such weak argument like the one I have quoted.
There is no evidence for the existence of God. Tell me, why do you disobey Zeus and Poseidon and Hades? When was the last time that you went to the temple to leave a basket of fish for the God of the Ocean?

As for square one. Yes we are at square one. You have yet to give a shred of evidence for the existence of any gods.

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something that does not exist. There are an infinite (literally) number of things that don't exist.
13. ur going hell lmaoo
14. (Original post by abdulahi)
ur going hell lmaoo
No, he is going to Hades.
15. (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
There is no evidence for the existence of God. Tell me, why do you disobey Zeus and Poseidon and Hades? When was the last time that you went to the temple to leave a basket of fish for the God of the Ocean?

As for square one. Yes we are at square one. You have yet to give a shred of evidence for the existence of any gods.

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something that does not exist. There are an infinite (literally) number of things that don't exist.
You are asking for the scientific proof of God.

As I have stated previously any scientific theory that can be proven scientifically must also be falsifiable. You have just stated that theory of God is not falsifiable and as a consequence cannot be proven scientifically.

Just face it. You can't disprove God just as I cannot prove that God exists. The only reason you choose to disbelieve in God is for personal reasons. Maybe you think you don't have enough time in your day to spend worshipping God, or maybe it is the lifestyle you choose to lead. In any case, you seem to be convincing yourself that logic is your explanation for the nonexistence of God, yet logic clearly does not lead to the conclusion that God does not exist. Perhaps God doesn't, I would quickly become an atheist if ever there were a convincing argument that is logically sound. But I have yet to come across one and I doubt I ever will.

Also your point about me choosing which God to believe in is made redundant in this debate as I am assuming the position of a theist rather than any specific religion and I was merely using Islam as an example.

Also your claim that it is "impossible to prove the non existence of something that does not exist" is entirely wrong.

We can quite easily prove that there exist no right angled triangles that do not satisfy Pythagoras' theorem.( supposing we are using the axioms of Euclid)
In this example , a right angled triangle not satisfying Pythagoras' theorem does not exist, yet we can prove its nonexistence.

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16. (Original post by abdulahi)
ur going hell lmaoo
I really hope your not a Muslim.
17. (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
I really hope your not a Muslim.
Well his name is Abdullahi (albeit spelt wrong) which literally means "servant of Allah".
So I think its safe to assume he is Muslim lol.

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18. (Original post by arrow900)
You are asking for the scientific proof of God.

As I have stated previously any scientific theory that can be proven scientifically must also be falsifiable. You have just stated that theory of God is not falsifiable and as a consequence cannot be proven scientifically.

Just face it. You can't disprove God just as I cannot prove that God exists. The only reason you choose to disbelieve in God is for personal reasons. Maybe you think you don't have enough time in your day to spend worshipping God, or maybe it is the lifestyle you choose to lead. In any case, you seem to be convincing yourself that logic is your explanation for the nonexistence of God, yet logic clearly does not lead to the conclusion that God does not exist. Perhaps God doesn't, I would quickly become an atheist if ever there were a convincing argument that is logically sound. But I have yet to come across one and I doubt I ever will.

Also your point about me choosing which God to believe in is made redundant in this debate as I am assuming the position of a theist rather than any specific religion and I was merely using Islam as an example.

Also your claim that it is "impossible to prove the non existence of something that does not exist" is entirely wrong.

We can quite easily prove that there exist no right angled triangles that do not satisfy Pythagoras' theorem.( supposing we are using the axioms of Euclid)
In this example , a right angled triangle not satisfying Pythagoras' theorem does not exist, yet we can prove its nonexistence.

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Let me break this utter dross down:

You have just stated that theory of God is not falsifiable and as a consequence cannot be proven scientifically. - Yep. I don't think we'll ever see scientific proof of the existence of God(s).

Just face it. You can't disprove God just as I cannot prove that God exists. The only reason you choose to disbelieve in God is for personal reasons. Maybe you think you don't have enough time in your day to spend worshipping God, or maybe it is the lifestyle you choose to lead. In any case, you seem to be convincing yourself that logic is your explanation for the nonexistence of God, yet logic clearly does not lead to the conclusion that God does not exist. Perhaps God doesn't, I would quickly become an atheist if ever there were a convincing argument that is logically sound. But I have yet to come across one and I doubt I ever will. - I don't worship god or allah or muhammed or any of that for the same reasons you do not worship Zeus or Odin. Tell me why don't you worship any other deities? As Ricky Gervais said, a Muslim/Christian is sceptical of 7999 gods, an atheist 8000.

So do you automatically believe in everything until it is disproven?

Also your point about me choosing which God to believe in is made redundant in this debate as I am assuming the position of a theist rather than any specific religion and I was merely using Islam as an example. No, you are a Muslim. You believe in one particular god who has his own 7th century political views. If you were simply a theist, this debate would be rather different but you aren't. You are a Muslim, your attempt to sidestep a major criticism of your position by pretending to hold different beliefs is laughable

Also your claim that it is "impossible to prove the non existence of something that does not exist" is entirely wrong. Actually, no. It's entirely correct.

We can quite easily prove that there exist no right angled triangles that do not satisfy Pythagoras' theorem.( supposing we are using the axioms of Euclid)
In this example , a right angled triangle not satisfying Pythagoras' theorem does not exist, yet we can prove its nonexistence.
Ah the classic attempt to sound scientifically literate. And that is because that is a theoretical equation, and not comparable to the existence of an object/being in the real world. I don't think critical thinking is your strong point. Can you give me an equation that proves the country of France must exist?
19. (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
Let me break this utter dross down:

You have just stated that theory of God is not falsifiable and as a consequence cannot be proven scientifically. - Yep. I don't think we'll ever see scientific proof of the existence of God(s).

Just face it. You can't disprove God just as I cannot prove that God exists. The only reason you choose to disbelieve in God is for personal reasons. Maybe you think you don't have enough time in your day to spend worshipping God, or maybe it is the lifestyle you choose to lead. In any case, you seem to be convincing yourself that logic is your explanation for the nonexistence of God, yet logic clearly does not lead to the conclusion that God does not exist. Perhaps God doesn't, I would quickly become an atheist if ever there were a convincing argument that is logically sound. But I have yet to come across one and I doubt I ever will. - I don't worship god or allah or muhammed or any of that for the same reasons you do not worship Zeus or Odin. Tell me why don't you worship any other deities? As Ricky Gervais said, a Muslim/Christian is sceptical of 7999 gods, an atheist 8000.

So do you automatically believe in everything until it is disproven?

Also your point about me choosing which God to believe in is made redundant in this debate as I am assuming the position of a theist rather than any specific religion and I was merely using Islam as an example. No, you are a Muslim. You believe in one particular god who has his own 7th century political views. If you were simply a theist, this debate would be rather different but you aren't. You are a Muslim, your attempt to sidestep a major criticism of your position by pretending to hold different beliefs is laughable

Also your claim that it is "impossible to prove the non existence of something that does not exist" is entirely wrong. Actually, no. It's entirely correct.

We can quite easily prove that there exist no right angled triangles that do not satisfy Pythagoras' theorem.( supposing we are using the axioms of Euclid)
In this example , a right angled triangle not satisfying Pythagoras' theorem does not exist, yet we can prove its nonexistence.
Ah the classic attempt to sound scientifically literate. And that is because that is a theoretical equation, and not comparable to the existence of an object/being in the real world. I don't think critical thinking is your strong point. Can you give me an equation that proves the country of France must exist?
I'm not really going to bother with any of what you said up until the last paragraph as you have rejected most of my arguments on the basis of my specific religion as a Muslim when I have already stated that my religion as a Muslim plays no part in my argument. Where have I quoted the Quran ?
Just use your imagination and consider my argument as if it is being presented by any theist. Or maybe you can assume that I am a theist who believes in all Gods simultaneously and is willing to undergo all punishments from all God's that ask for me to be a monotheist.

Well I used mathematics in my example as this is the purest form of logic and it seemed the most suitable to disprove your claim, but seeing as you believe that the purest form of logic is perhaps too pure for you, I will instead resort to the method of scientific proof which is comparatively weak.
Now France exists because all the scientific evidence suggests it does, and in Science when all the evidence suggest a conclusion, the evidence is considered to be proof.

Also what you have stated here "impossible to prove the non existence of something that does not exist" is in fact equivalent to saying that it is impossible to disprove something. Which I think both you and I know is not true.

Since the statement, "prove the non existence" is equivalent to "disprove the existence of", what you are essentially saying is equivalent to the statement " it is impossible to disprove the existence of something that does not exist"
And since it is also impossible to disprove the existence of something that does exist.
The only conclusion that follows from those two statements is that it is impossible to disprove something.
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20. (Original post by arrow900)
I'm not really going to bother with any of what you said up until the last paragraph
Wonder why. Ok I have three questions

1) Why do you not worship the Greek gods. Do you disbelieve or can you simply not be bothered?

2) Can you disprove the existence of a giant invisible dragon that lives on the dark side of the moon?

3) If you believe so strongly in theism, why do you follow Islam specifically?

these are very simple questions. Please answer each individually and one at a time to keep the discussion organised

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