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The I-SOC (Islamic Society) XIII
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Original post by beautifulxxx
Asalam alaikum waRahmatullah guys, it's been a while.
Hope you're all well in shaa Allah.
Hope you're all well in shaa Allah.
Wa'aleykum assalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu sis, hope you are in the best of health and state of imaan inshaAllah - indeed it has been a while
Original post by IRoranth
??? It's human nature for us to mourn in this way (lightly hitting your chest as a way of grieving)- ancient Greeks did it too..
..ALSO, of course, doing zanjir is DEFINITELY NOT prohibited in Islam because of the harm it causes- several scholars have already discouraged this in the past- the only reason some Shia's still do it is because it's merged into their cultural practices- remember- religion and culture are not the same thing.
e.g. it is Iranian culture to hit your back with a chain... this is obvs harming yourself and not permissible in Islam but people do it anyway. Why? Because its a part of their culture.
Same goes with Pakistani's who literally use knives.
Culture and religion don't mix.
yes i am aware you posted a few days ago- just wanted to clarify this^
I don't intend on a debate taking place
..ALSO, of course, doing zanjir is DEFINITELY NOT prohibited in Islam because of the harm it causes- several scholars have already discouraged this in the past- the only reason some Shia's still do it is because it's merged into their cultural practices- remember- religion and culture are not the same thing.
e.g. it is Iranian culture to hit your back with a chain... this is obvs harming yourself and not permissible in Islam but people do it anyway. Why? Because its a part of their culture.
Same goes with Pakistani's who literally use knives.
Culture and religion don't mix.
yes i am aware you posted a few days ago- just wanted to clarify this^
I don't intend on a debate taking place
The way Ithna-Asharis grieve is learned and not natural at all - everyone grieves differently, and only few might slap their forehead in shock and disbelief naturally, but otherwise if a man, child or woman was to grieve naturally without any outside influence, then I can assure you their reaction would not be to beat their chests. The act of organised mourning on a yearly basis, gathering and wailing and beating their chests and reciting poems etc is bidah.
Original post by h333
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raj'un.
This is so disturbing. Why does media not coever this?
not important.
This is so disturbing. Why does media not coever this?
not important.They don't care about us.
Original post by mil88
I know very little of this tradition and have not done it myself, and thus am in no position to "prove it".
Oh, (once again) I'm terribly sorry for upsetting you. I was just asking simple questions in response to you saying about it is forbidden for damaging your body in Islam, when the Quran clearly gives accounts of Prophets and Non Prophets doing exactly this.
Also, you mention according to "Islam", is that your or my interpretation?
Forgive me for not completely understanding; the mourning of Karbala is bidah in your opinion?
Actually, if you look more closely at my points and the fatwas, they are in agreement. The main fatwas reject the use of knives, I am not speaking of such actions.
I was just gathering your opinions on Quranic and real life situations.
Also remember, I asked these because you said ' Islam doesn't allow damage to ones body'
With due respect sister, what you justified for the wife of the Prophet is what I have already said, just simplified. The tafsir provided clearly mentions her "striking" her head or forehead.
No, I am specifcally talking about my friends who fasted the whole day, then instead of sleeping they went to taraweeh, got barely any sleep, then went to school for the month of Ramadhan. I then included how such sleep deprivation is damaging to the body.
I respect your opinion sister, but the problem here (not for me, but many I know) is the lack of emotional control.
Please note as well, it's much easier to inform people (in my opinion) by asking such questions so you can easily find out their thought process on different situations.
Oh, (once again) I'm terribly sorry for upsetting you. I was just asking simple questions in response to you saying about it is forbidden for damaging your body in Islam, when the Quran clearly gives accounts of Prophets and Non Prophets doing exactly this.
Also, you mention according to "Islam", is that your or my interpretation?
Forgive me for not completely understanding; the mourning of Karbala is bidah in your opinion?
Actually, if you look more closely at my points and the fatwas, they are in agreement. The main fatwas reject the use of knives, I am not speaking of such actions.
I was just gathering your opinions on Quranic and real life situations.
Also remember, I asked these because you said ' Islam doesn't allow damage to ones body'
With due respect sister, what you justified for the wife of the Prophet is what I have already said, just simplified. The tafsir provided clearly mentions her "striking" her head or forehead.
No, I am specifcally talking about my friends who fasted the whole day, then instead of sleeping they went to taraweeh, got barely any sleep, then went to school for the month of Ramadhan. I then included how such sleep deprivation is damaging to the body.
I respect your opinion sister, but the problem here (not for me, but many I know) is the lack of emotional control.
Please note as well, it's much easier to inform people (in my opinion) by asking such questions so you can easily find out their thought process on different situations.
Salaam
I really don't want this to be debate on here of any sort and I want to be truthful of course. You may not know me well, but I really fear bida'ah and would never accept a practice until it is proven to me using reliable sources within Islam. Hence, fasting for half a day I can't accept as it is recommended highly by our beloved prophet (saw) that we fast on the day of Ashura.
No you do not need to apologise brother and you have not upset me in any way. I just worry we as Muslims should be careful and not fall into bid'ah.
Yes I believe we should not harm ourself in any way when remembering the event of Karbala because it does not achieve anything and is not a sunnah/practice in Islam. Hence, self-flagellation done on purpose (especially as a group/in a gathering) then I say it is bid'ah.
As with the wife of the prophet Ibrahim (AS) I presented the tafsir on that and again would say not to interpret in a way to make it appear as if she was harming herself on purpose. She was amazed to hear the news and so it is a natural reaction with most women. It was not arranged and done.
Lack of emotional control I understand, but we have to be careful to not use this as an excuse always without being thoughtful. One has to prevent this from happening in the first place eg understand that it will achieve nothing and to remember the event maturely. Those that gather in large groups etc should make it clear that this not right. I am against arranging atmoshphere as such that will promote/lead one to self-flagellation. As some can make a big scene out of it and show off their concern for the event in large gatherings this way. I know that people gather on ashura and actually stand to just beat their chests while mourning
continuously without anyone going against it.
Do you think as a Muslim I don't care about this event? I do however I would rather pray and stay within limits and rather not engage in something that may lead me to fall into unneccessary acts just for the day. As well as this there are many other events too that were tragic, so does this mean we do the same for all.
Al-Bukhaari (1294) and Muslim (103) narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “He is not one of us who strikes his cheeks, rends his garment, or cries with the cry of the Jaahiliyyah.”
Sorry for missing some points but I just said what I could now and you must know by now that I am against making this event into an anniversary in such a way some or most shias do now.
Allahu Alam.
Original post by IRoranth
??? It's human nature for us to mourn in this way (lightly hitting your chest as a way of grieving)- ancient Greeks did it too..
..ALSO, of course, doing zanjir is DEFINITELY NOT prohibited in Islam because of the harm it causes- several scholars have already discouraged this in the past- the only reason some Shia's still do it is because it's merged into their cultural practices- remember- religion and culture are not the same thing.
e.g. it is Iranian culture to hit your back with a chain... this is obvs harming yourself and not permissible in Islam but people do it anyway. Why? Because its a part of their culture.
Same goes with Pakistani's who literally use knives.
Culture and religion don't mix.
yes i am aware you posted a few days ago- just wanted to clarify this^
I don't intend on a debate taking place
..ALSO, of course, doing zanjir is DEFINITELY NOT prohibited in Islam because of the harm it causes- several scholars have already discouraged this in the past- the only reason some Shia's still do it is because it's merged into their cultural practices- remember- religion and culture are not the same thing.
e.g. it is Iranian culture to hit your back with a chain... this is obvs harming yourself and not permissible in Islam but people do it anyway. Why? Because its a part of their culture.
Same goes with Pakistani's who literally use knives.
Culture and religion don't mix.
yes i am aware you posted a few days ago- just wanted to clarify this^
I don't intend on a debate taking place
I am slightly confused, not sure whether you agree that this self-harm is/should not be part of Islam.
Anyway, thanks.
This reminds me of our conversation about cold/hot water.
[video="youtube;ntD3qhXniZ4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntD3qhXniZ4[/video]
[video="youtube;ntD3qhXniZ4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntD3qhXniZ4[/video]
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by IdeasForLife
This reminds me of our conversation about cold/hot war.
[video="youtube;ntD3qhXniZ4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntD3qhXniZ4[/video]
[video="youtube;ntD3qhXniZ4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntD3qhXniZ4[/video]
1.what do you mean by hot/cold war?
2. This was interesting to watch and made quite emotional for some reason.
Original post by h333
1.what do you mean by hot/cold war?
2. This was interesting to watch and made quite emotional for some reason.
2. This was interesting to watch and made quite emotional for some reason.
That was a reference to Leukocyte when she said the hot water stopped working so she had to use cold water and how she realized we are lucky to have any water at all.
Similarly we are lucky to have our modern day showers/bathes when compared to many people of the past as implied by 1:43 onwards in the video.
Original post by IdeasForLife
That was a reference to Leukocyte when she said the hot water stopped working so she had to use cold water and how she realized we are lucky to have any water at all.
Similarly we are lucky to have our modern day showers/bathes when compared to many people of the past as implied by 1:43 onwards in the video.
Similarly we are lucky to have our modern day showers/bathes when compared to many people of the past as implied by 1:43 onwards in the video.
Lol that is what I was thinking, so you meant hot/cold water not war. I actually googled hot war
Alhamdulillah we are. I found it very interesting.
Original post by h333
Lol that is what I was thinking, so you meant hot/cold water not war. I actually googled hot war
Alhamdulillah we are. I found it very interesting.
Alhamdulillah we are. I found it very interesting.
Oh. Sorry I didn't realise, not even when you pointed it out. I've edited the mistake now. Stupid moments.
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Original post by IdeasForLife
Oh. Sorry I didn't realise, not even when you pointed it out. I've edited the mistake now. Stupid moments.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Bless. Nw
I actually knew what you was referring to when I watched the video but asked just in case 
“The heart gets sick as the body does and its cure is in asking for forgiveness and protection. It also becomes rusty like a mirror does and it is polished by remembering Allah.
The heart can also be naked like the body and can lose its dress and decoration, which is piety.
And it can feel hunger and thirst like the body does, and its nourishment is knowledge, love, trust, and offering service to Allah.”
[Imam Ibn al Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah RahimahuAllah]
The heart can also be naked like the body and can lose its dress and decoration, which is piety.
And it can feel hunger and thirst like the body does, and its nourishment is knowledge, love, trust, and offering service to Allah.”
[Imam Ibn al Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah RahimahuAllah]
Ibn al-Qayyim said:
"Al- Junayd said: 'The journey from this world to the Hereafter is smooth and easy for the believer, but leaving ordinary life for the sake of Allah is difficult.
The journey from the ego (nafs) to Allah is extremely difficult, and patience (sabr) in Allah is even more difficult."
He was asked about patience, so he replied: 'It is to swallow bitterness without frowning.'
[Imam Ibn al Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah RahimahuAllah]
"Al- Junayd said: 'The journey from this world to the Hereafter is smooth and easy for the believer, but leaving ordinary life for the sake of Allah is difficult.
The journey from the ego (nafs) to Allah is extremely difficult, and patience (sabr) in Allah is even more difficult."
He was asked about patience, so he replied: 'It is to swallow bitterness without frowning.'
[Imam Ibn al Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah RahimahuAllah]
“The heart will rest and feel relief if it is settled with Allah. And it will worry and feel anxious if it is settled with the people.”
[Imam Ibn al Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah RahimahuAllah]
[Imam Ibn al Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah RahimahuAllah]
Original post by h333
@Incredible97 salaam sis, you ok long time I have not spoken to you?
Wassalaam
I'm good alhamdullilah I hope you're too.
Original post by Incredible97
Wassalaam
I'm good alhamdullilah I hope you're too.
I'm good alhamdullilah I hope you're too.
Lol I deleted it and pmed you instead.
Good
same Alhamdulillah.Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of your days is Friday. On that day Adam (peace be upon him) was created; on that day he died; on that day the Trumpet will be blown and on that day all of creation will swoon. So send a great deal of blessings upon me, for your blessings will be shown to me.” They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, how will our blessings upon you be shown to you when you have turned to dust?” He said, “Allaah has forbidden the earth to consume the bodies of the Prophets, peace be upon them.”
Narrated by Abu Dawood, 1047; classed as saheeh by Ibn al-Qayyim in his comments on Sunan Abi Dawood, 4/273; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 925.
Narrated by Abu Dawood, 1047; classed as saheeh by Ibn al-Qayyim in his comments on Sunan Abi Dawood, 4/273; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 925.
Original post by beautifulxxx
Asalam alaikum waRahmatullah guys, it's been a while.
Hope you're all well in shaa Allah.
Hope you're all well in shaa Allah.
Wasalam.
It's been long! Hope you're fine x
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