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Truly tired of Labour BS on tuition fees. Watch

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    (Original post by Quady)
    I assumed you were the person I was quoting...

    Why are you arguing that to me?

    Surely you should be taking it up with cambio wechsel?
    You said the government loans money then we pay it back so its basically the same as directly charging people for education.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Is cambio wechsel socialist?
    Well, he criticized me for saying im socialist so cambio must be
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    (Original post by saayagain)
    You said the government loans money then we pay it back so its basically the same as directly charging people for education.
    The student loan system isn't direct charging for education.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    The student loan system isn't direct charging for education.
    Isn't it? Don't you get a £9000 student loan to pay for Tuition Fees i.e Education.

    Higher Education should be Free. We all have the right to an education, and the money will be put back into the country through taxes.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Isn't it? Don't you get a £9000 student loan to pay for Tuition Fees i.e Education.

    Higher Education should be Free. We all have the right to an education, and the money will be put back into the country through taxes.
    So if I did a degree, I'd have to pay back £9,000 - or it'd be taken out of my estate when I die?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So if I did a degree, I'd have to pay back £9,000 - or it'd be taken out of my estate when I die?
    Gradually pay it back if you could afford it, or after a specific number of years, the government wipes the debt.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Gradually pay it back if you could afford it, or after a specific number of years, the government wipes the debt.
    If you can afford to?

    Why would something directly charged get wiped?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    If you can afford to?

    Why would something directly charged get wiped?
    If you get a degree but then can't pay the tuition fees because you're not earning enough money, after a while (I think it's 30 years) they get wiped. It's fairer on poorer students.

    I'm anti-tuition fees anyway, but I guess that it's a pretty fair method. I think £9000 is too much though.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    If you get a degree but then can't pay the tuition fees because you're not earning enough money, after a while (I think it's 30 years) they get wiped. It's fairer on poorer students.

    I'm anti-tuition fees anyway, but I guess that it's a pretty fair method. I think £9000 is too much though.
    How is that fairer? If you're both directly charged the same amount...

    Surely two people would pay different amounts based on their salary?

    Sounds like income tax...
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How is that fairer? If you're both directly charged the same amount...

    Surely two people would pay different amounts based on their salary?

    Sounds like income tax...
    It's fairer because Higher Education isn't just a thing for the rich but is for everyone.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    It's fairer because Higher Education isn't just a thing for the rich but is for everyone.
    Oh right, so if you've an IQ of 70 and two GCSE D grades in geography and taken as a night class then you can do a degree?

    Isn't university supposed to make you rich? Rich enough to pay £9,000 over the rest of your lifetime anyway?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Oh right, so if you've an IQ of 70 and two GCSE D grades in geography and taken as a night class then you can do a degree?

    Isn't university supposed to make you rich? Rich enough to pay £9,000 over the rest of your lifetime anyway?
    I didn't say for the dumb or the lazy, I said for anyone. Anyone who works hard enough and gets the grades.

    And it's meant to, but it doesn't always work out.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Isn't it? Don't you get a £9000 student loan to pay for Tuition Fees i.e Education.

    Higher Education should be Free. We all have the right to an education, and the money will be put back into the country through taxes.
    The student loan method is more fair. You bare the financial burden, not society. It's ok if we pick up the cheque so society can help disabled people have a better life or abused children etc...that makes sense. Not if you want to learn.

    I'm not saying £9000 is the correct amount...It depends on what the costs are for the university excluding profit margins. If that is 5k or 15k, people should owe the money directly.

    The same with unemployment benefits. It should be owed so they pay it back once they get back into work. This way when you pay off what you owe its a cost which was borne by yourself...
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I didn't say for the dumb or the lazy, I said for anyone. Anyone who works hard enough and gets the grades.

    And it's meant to, but it doesn't always work out.
    Well you said for anyone, rich or poor. It seems elitism is ok though.

    So what's wrong with taking it from their estate on death like other loans? I'm confused why the dumb person who tries pays for other people to take third level education.
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    (Original post by saayagain)
    The student loan method is more fair. You bare the financial burden, not society. It's ok if we pick up the cheque so society can help disabled people have a better life or abused children etc...that makes sense. Not if you want to learn.

    I'm not saying £9000 is the correct amount...It depends on what the costs are for the university excluding profit margins. If that is 5k or 15k, people should owe the money directly.

    The same with unemployment benefits. It should be owed so they pay it back once they get back into work. This way when you pay off what you owe its a cost which was borne by yourself...
    It is paid by society. 57% of the loan by the latest estimate right? Excluding LEA funding.

    Surely that's how NI works... No?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    It is paid by society. 57% of the loan by the latest estimate right? Excluding LEA funding.

    Surely that's how NI works... No?
    Well you pay into the pool of money depending on how much you earn...

    It's not allocated against your personal expenses.

    What I am advocating needs to be enacted with other policies otherwise it won't work...
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    (Original post by saayagain)
    Well you pay into the pool of money depending on how much you earn...

    It's not allocated against your personal expenses.

    What I am advocating needs to be enacted with other policies otherwise it won't work...
    Yeah, but what is it you're proposing?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Oh I don't have an inherent problem as such with the current system, but I think various reports show that the money the government received from it is meagre and that it doesn't really achieve anything.
    A meagre gain or slight loss for the education itself is much better than a total loss, is it not?

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    (Original post by Quady)
    Yeah, but what is it you're proposing?
    It's difficult to explain.

    It's like having a credit card with the government which doesn't charge interest and doesn't take money from you if you are not earning any income...

    This will allow the government to create money for free (hence avoid interest payments) while reducing the deficit and reducing income tax rates (although NI or a similar tax rates will increase relative to what you owe the government).

    This should be coupled with changes in corporation tax (turnover based tax like income tax on individuals), changes in national minimum wage setting, the nationalization of housing, changes in education curriculum and methods, changes in parliament (house of lords replaced with peoples senate with representatives from local councils), reduction MP salary, the nationalization of transport, changes in election procedure, increased accountability and transparency of MPs and political parties, government only political party funding and more...

    ...I am a realistic socialist. Just so you understand where i'm coming from.
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    (Original post by saayagain)
    It's difficult to explain.

    It's like having a credit card with the government which doesn't charge interest and doesn't take money from you if you are not earning any income...

    This will allow the government to create money for free (hence avoid interest payments) while reducing the deficit and reducing income tax rates (although NI or a similar tax rates will increase relative to what you owe the government).

    This should be coupled with changes in corporation tax (turnover based tax like income tax on individuals), changes in national minimum wage setting, the nationalization of housing, changes in education curriculum and methods, changes in parliament (house of lords replaced with peoples senate with representatives from local councils), reduction MP salary, the nationalization of transport, changes in election procedure, increased accountability and transparency of MPs and political parties, government only political party funding and more...

    ...I am a realistic socialist. Just so you understand where i'm coming from.
    They could create money for free anyway - no need for a 'credit card'.

    I don't see what the difference is between what you propose and the current system tbh, apart from your tax increases the more you owe, rather than the more you earn. So
 
 
 
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