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NY Times writer refuses to hire superbly qualified babysitter, because he's male Watch

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    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    Oh my something has rattled your cage this evening.

    At my place of work, the toilets are in the changing rooms, and the female cleaner cleans the male and female changing rooms/toilets. If the male cleaner is on duty, he will clean both changing rooms too.

    Now please chill out and enjoy your flight.
    Fair enough - I'm sorry and thanks for being so chilled out about my stresses.

    It's pretty much unheard of for this to happen whilst members are changing. Regardless, the point is you can legally discriminate on gender in this case.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    What did the people confronting him say??
    Just general "We don't feel happy with you taking pictures near our children - stop it" crap. He just told them that no law would prevent him from taking pictures of a few trees just because they happened to be near their kids, and he'd go when he was done. Apparently they glared at him the entire time and watched him leave. :lol:

    However, they had absolutely no problem that I might be taking pictures of their kids - no one said anything to me as I stood in the exact same place and took pictures of the exact same trees.
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    (Original post by TheSownRose)
    Just general "We don't feel happy with you taking pictures near our children - stop it" crap. He just told them that no law would prevent him from taking pictures of a few trees just because they happened to be near their kids, and he'd go when he was done. Apparently they glared at him the entire time and watched him leave. :lol:

    However, they had absolutely no problem that I might be taking pictures of their kids - no one said anything to me as I stood in the exact same place and took pictures of the exact same trees.
    Oh dear :/ Society today has still got the paedo-paranoia from the late 90's early 00's.
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    This really reminds me of that Friends episode with the male nanny...
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    (Original post by Bubbles*de*Milo)
    Who cares if it's 'sexism'. I wouldn't want a male looking after my daughter; as she said, the babysitter might have to see her naked (nappys, or if she has an accident or whatever), I wouldn't want any man to see that. Seriously, get over it.

    I bet if I wanted to be a mechanic, it would be harder for me to be hired as a woman, then for a guy. People like you need to get rid of those ridiculously annoying chips off your shoulder. It's called life.
    :puppyeyes: but i would look after the baby :puppyeyes: hire meee
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    When I'm looking for a babysitter, I will look for a women because women are on an average more sensitive and motherly-like than men. When I'm looking for a plumber, I'll look for a man because men are more stronger on an average than women.
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    Well I think it's a shame that men are discriminated against in this situation, but I also think people should have the right to disciminate for jobs like that. A job that involves someone coming into your home and looking after your children is quite different to hiring someone to work in an office or a shop or something like that. It's much more personal. People should have the right to hire someone they are comfortable with. Even if that means allowing them to discriminate on gender, sexuality, race, etc.
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    Where would you draw the line between sexism and personal preference?
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    I would have done the exact same thing. I'm sorry, but you have every right in the world to be picky about who comes into your home and looks after your children and personally I would not want a man doing that.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Oh dear :/ Society today has still got the paedo-paranoia from the late 90's early 00's.
    Every man who has any contact with a child who is not their relative is automatically a paedophile.

    FACT.

    Or at least that's the way people seem to think anyways...
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    (Original post by Rancorous)
    Firstly, you're ignoring the point I was making - which is you can legally discriminate between cleaners - a gym can decide not to hire a female cleaner on the basis of her gender. You come along and try back the guy trying to undermine this point based on the fact you think it's a regular occurrence for the opposite gender to clean while people are naked. This is the sole reason I mention this - it's the sole point I'm trying to make - because it's a case, like the OP, where you can legally discriminate. There are many others.
    That's not how your first post made it out.

    (Original post by Rancorous)
    Please STFU and read that I was talking about exceptions and this is the case here under both US and UK law.

    Toilets aren't changing rooms dummy. In the UK, it is unheard of for the opposite gender to be cleaning while people are changing.

    :rolleyes:

    Please don't quote me again - I'm about to get on a flight in two hours - I don't want to have to look at such an inane reply again.
    You stress the "fact" that cleaners do not clean changing rooms of the opposite genders whilst people are using them. I know that to be untrue, due to personal experience and having worked in places where men have cleaned womens and vice versa.


    (Original post by Rancorous)
    Secondly, I'm talking specifically about changing rooms where people will be exposed.
    You're saying that people don't get exposed in their hostel rooms after having a shower? It's pretty much the same situation.


    (Original post by Rancorous)
    Thirdly, no - out of 10s of thousands of changing rooms in the UK, I would be shocked if one had no separate male/female cleaning staff - which is what the guy who you were in effect was supporting was saying. I would be less shocked if it happened in an exceptional case from time to time in a tiny minority of places - but not on a regular basis. It's not against the law for it to happen - but it would - and has in the past - generated complaints and member resignations. 'I know a fair few places where males clean the female changing rooms and vice versa' - as a matter of policy, that sentence is complete rubbish.
    It's not rubbish and I never said it was a policy, you numpty. As long as customers are warned in advance then there is no problem. Just because you've not experienced it doesn't mean it's not true.

    Not everywhere can hire women, not everywhere can hire men. They have to make do with who applies. That they try to make it balanced is neither here nor there, not everywhere can.

    Since you're so keen on this being an actual exemption in the law, I would like to see some evidence. I'm not calling you a liar, but I've never heard of anything like that.


    (Original post by Rancorous)
    Fourthly, you're wrong - you don't need a crb check to work as a cleaner in gym/health clubs etc. even though kids might be present which is why I make the point.
    If kids are involved, they do need a CRB check. Everyone who works around children needs one.

    Who needs a CRB check?

    If there is ever a child protection problem in your organisation and the people working with children and young people have not been adequately checked, your organisation could be held legally liable. Often insurance payouts are significantly reduced or even invalidated.

    To prevent this possibility SAFEchild advises CRB checks are conducted on all volunteers and staff involved with your organisation that have direct access to, or work directly with, children and young people, e.g. staff, instructors, teachers, coaches and activity leaders, to name a few.

    Do we have to check our staff?

    Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 an organisation must request CRBs if it is a "child care organisation" under the Children Act 1989:

    * A "Child Care" organisation is defined under the Children Act 1989 as providing activities outside the home for more than 2 hours at least 6 times per year. In which case Ofsted has to be notified in writing and National Day Care Standards also apply.

    and/or:

    * If you employ paid or unpaid staff that have unsupervised access i.e. work directly with children, young people.
    Source.

    There are exceptions to this and these are listed in Exceptions Order of the Act. The two main exceptions relate to roles that involve regular contact with children or vulnerable adults. If a person wants to apply for a position that involves working or volunteering with children or vulnerable adults they are required to reveal all convictions, both spent and unspent.
    Source.

    Now, stop acting all *****ish just cause you're stressed. No one gives a **** and it's no reason not to be civil, at least.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    That's not how your first post made it out.
    That wasn't my first post that was being quoted. This is the first post which was then criticised by a poster whose point you are supporting:

    Originally Posted by Rancorous
    if you want a cleaner for female changing rooms, and the best cleaner is a man should you hire him?

    if you want a waiter for an italian restaurant should you hire the chinese guy even though he's the best waiter?

    there are cases when you can discriminate

    How is this post not extremely clear that you can discriminate for female/male cleaners? It is.



    You stress the "fact" that cleaners do not clean changing rooms of the opposite genders whilst people are using them. I know that to be untrue, due to personal experience and having worked in places where men have cleaned womens and vice versa.
    Categorical lie or hopeless reading comprehension on your part - I have not said it never happens. Repeatedly I have said - even in response to you on the other page - it can happen.

    The fact is your comments imply that employers don't discriminate on this - and indeed you've now directly said below you don't think they do - and you're wrong.


    You're saying that people don't get exposed in their hostel rooms after having a shower? It's pretty much the same situation.
    I can tell you most gyms/health clubs discriminate on gender for cleaning changing rooms. Read what I say about the sex discrimination act below.

    It's not rubbish and I never said it was a policy, you numpty. As long as customers are warned in advance then there is no problem. Just because you've not experienced it doesn't mean it's not true.
    Again read that sentence - 'I know a fair few places where that happens' - you're a numpty if you can't put a sentence together - that sentence strongly implies it's policy.

    If you want to make a fair observation say 'I know places where they have separate male/female cleaning staff, and the employers probably discriminated to have both genders, but in exceptional circumstances, and absolutely no other staff is available, they will put up warnings and the opposite gender will do it'.

    That sentence has a lot less effect and sounds a lot more reasonable (and it doesn't resemble your sentence at all) - and even so that's still rare inside of opening hours - I've worked in a couple of health club/gyms which have chains across the country - it would never happen there or at competitors - but it depends on the venue - if they have a swimming pool, it's even less likely. It's a non issue in any event as I have made very clear - the issue/ topic of the thread is whether it is legal to discriminate and it is despite what you may think in whatever fairy land you live in.


    Not everywhere can hire women, not everywhere can hire men. They have to make do with who applies. That they try to make it balanced is neither here nor there, not everywhere can.

    Since you're so keen on this being an actual exemption in the law, I would like to see some evidence. I'm not calling you a liar, but I've never heard of anything like that.
    Sex discrimination act s7 has the exemptions where employers can discriminate for sex (Race relations act s5 if you want exemptions there for the italian restaurant etc). Out of my labour law textbook; 'dignity of privacy requires the job to be done by a man, because, for example, there are men 'in a state of undress' at the workplace, e.g. a lavatory cleaner. This also applies if customers of other employees might reasonably object to physical contact with a person of the opposite sex as an employee.'



    If kids are involved, they do need a CRB check. Everyone who works around children needs one.

    Source.

    Source.
    OMG no! Cleaners are not working directly with children. You don't need to be CRB checked.


    Now, stop acting all *****ish just cause you're stressed. No one gives a **** and it's no reason not to be civil, at least.
    Could you find me an example where I haven't been civil towards you in previous posts? As opposed to you calling me a numpty, for instance, in your last one.

    But it's not good for my stress levels dealing with inane replies like yours. The clear implication from your posts is that you think it's illegal to discriminate between cleaners, and it's normal practice for male cleaners to clean female changing rooms - and you're 100% wrong. It's pretty clear you have no idea about sex discrimination law or how businesses work. I don't go around pretending I know about cars or art or 'the apprentice'.
 
 
 
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