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Israeli commander: 'We rewrote the rules of war for Gaza' Watch

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    (Original post by tom//)
    you are very right, israelis could have avoided these locations... if the people who were attacking israel didnt run into them, or attack from locations very near them. if israel "carpet bombed" them, or even wanted to, the death toll would be a hell of a lot higher than it is now.
    If Israel wanted to, it could wipe out the whole Middle-East.

    Ever heard this quote: “We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions,” van Creveld declared in an interview in September 2003. “We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that this will happen before Israel goes under.”

    Israel usually gets the amount of terror and murder of the Palestinians just right, enough to vindicate a good deal of their treatment but not too much to get beyond a worldwide diplomatic 'slap on the wrist'. If Israel did any more than this or didn't leave enough time between massacres, it's likely it would cause it's own demise into non-existence as it would lose US support (which let's face it, is all that keeps Israel alive).

    I hope that the Gaza massacre + some clear-sighted politics in this new year will be enough for the world to see who the real terrorists are and deal with this problem once and for all. But only time will tell...
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    (Original post by Straightpath)
    Where did you get this info from? And watch your language, I assume your no longer a little school kid swearing for attention.

    What do you have to say then about Isreal killing over 1000 civilians in its offense on Gaza. I swear Hamas have only killed about 10 Israeli civilians in how many years?
    How many times have they attempted to kill israelli civillians?
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    (Original post by Right>Left)
    hamas said they wan to kill all the israellis
    Oh great, after managing 12 pages without the most pathetic zionist, here enters right>left. :rolleyes:

    Learn to use capital letters and punctuation, and how to spell "want" and "Israelis" before you try to engage in serious debate bud.
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    (Original post by Rucklo)
    So bro, how many did they kill? :rofl:.

    So its cool to stab you as may times as I like as long as I don't kill you?
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    If Israel wanted to, it could wipe out the whole Middle-East.

    Ever heard this quote: “We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions,” van Creveld declared in an interview in September 2003. “We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that this will happen before Israel goes under.”

    Israel usually gets the amount of terror and murder of the Palestinians just right, enough to vindicate a good deal of their treatment but not too much to get beyond a worldwide diplomatic 'slap on the wrist'. If Israel did any more than this or didn't leave enough time between massacres, it's likely it would cause it's own demise into non-existence as it would lose US support (which let's face it, is all that keeps Israel alive).

    I hope that the Gaza massacre + some clear-sighted politics in this new year will be enough for the world to see who the real terrorists are and deal with this problem once and for all. But only time will tell...
    what would you actually like israel to do? sit back and let their country be attacked? if they show that they will be pushed around by hamas it will only trigger off attacks from countries surrounding it, and lets face it, its not like theres any shortage of potential invaders.

    the real terrorists are hamas. they are the ones who run and hide in civilian targets and then call israel out. they do not care for these people, instead they are intent on the destruction of israel, whatever the cost.
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    Oh great, after managing 12 pages without the most pathetic zionist, here enters right>left. :rolleyes:

    Learn to use capital letters and punctuation, and how to spell "want" and "Israelis" before you try to engage in serious debate bud.
    Blah blah blah spelling grammar blah, Hamas want to kill all Israellis yeah?
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    (Original post by Right>Left)
    Blah blah blah spelling grammar blah, Hamas want to kill all Israellis yeah?
    It's "Israelis".

    You cannot even spell the name of the people you practically made this TSR account to defend. :rolleyes:

    I love you.

    And to answer: No. They want to get rid of aggressors who have, according to 63 UN resolutions at least, encroached on to land which does not belong to them. And even if they all do want to kill all Israelis, does that justify Israel carpet-bombing Gaza as it did? Palestinians =/= Hamas fighters (as much as Israel would like you to believe).

    I suggest you read through pages 2-10 of this thread before trying to second-guess the debate or you'll just come across ignorant as you do now.
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    (Original post by Right>Left)
    Blah blah blah spelling grammar blah, Hamas want to kill all Israellis yeah?
    Your username isn't in reference to your mother's rack is it?

    The argument is over, go take a walk on the motorway you pathetic turd, you know full well that your post isn't the case but you have nothing else to do with your ****** life other than condone mass murderers and genocidal freaks. Perhaps if you stop behaving like a 12 year old internet douche then people won't treat you like a 12 year old internet douche, so take a look at the previous posts before stirring up a useless and weak argument.
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    (Original post by JakePearson)

    We're not monsters, just people fighting for the right of Israel to exist.
    just a quick question....erm...why should isreal have the right to exist???
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    (Original post by infernalcradle)
    just a quick question....erm...why should isreal have the right to exist???
    Why shouldn't it have the right to exist - and what do you intend on doing with the 7 million odd Israelis there then?
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    (Original post by Samrout)
    Why do you take the word of these liars that the Hamas militants were taking shelter in schools? I bet they were taking shelter in the only flour mill in Gaza

    Also, stop with the branding of the Hamas militants as "terrorists". Would you be a terrorist if an army invaded here and you stood up to fight them ?
    If Britain were to be occupied by France, I would shoot at French soldiers. I would shoot at French politicians. I would shoot at French policemen. I would not fire rockets at French civilians in civilian locations with the intent purpose of killing them.

    That's why the armies of Syria & Egypt during the Cold War in their many battles with Israel were not branded as terrorists.

    Hamas has never abided by the rules of engagement. I don't see why the Israelis should either.
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    I don't think Hamas were following any rules of engagement. It's not practical for one side of a war to follow rules whilst the other doesn't. Hamas attacked Israel, Hamas drew the fire to residential areas. And Israel should then formulate a battle strategy which will result in more Israeli soldiers' deaths than necessary?

    It's easy to judge from the other side of the world, but if a hostile country was continuously firing missiles into our country, the public would demand that the army use all means necessary to eliminate the threat and protect us.
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    (Original post by infernalcradle)
    just a quick question....erm...why should isreal have the right to exist???
    Because it is a nation of 7 million people who had nothing to do with the founding of their country.

    Anyone who seriously thinks that Israel should 'give the land back', to people who weren't alive at the time it wasn't Israel, must also believe that US needs to give the country back to the Native Americans and then magically **** off, same with Australia, New Zealand and pretty much any country.

    Be realistic. Every country in existence contains descendants of the people who last conquered it. No one has an innate right to any land by virtue of some arbitrary point in history when their ancestors lived there. Every nation is just a territory which was carved out by people in the past, whose descendants fight to make sure it stays theirs out of self-interest.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    If Britain were to be occupied by France, I would shoot at French soldiers. I would shoot at French politicians. I would shoot at French policemen. I would not fire rockets at French civilians in civilian locations with the intent purpose of killing them
    How noble of you. If only every person sitting at their computer two thousand miles from a conflict had the same sense of morality as you.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    If Britain were to be occupied by France, I would shoot at French soldiers. I would shoot at French politicians. I would shoot at French policemen. I would not fire rockets at French civilians in civilian locations with the intent purpose of killing them.

    That's why the armies of Syria & Egypt during the Cold War in their many battles with Israel were not branded as terrorists.

    Hamas has never abided by the rules of engagement. I don't see why the Israelis should either.
    Ahh..yes, the good old "they kill civilians so we should kill more". Read my previous two enormous posts on how Israel employs a system of apartheid in the country itself and the areas under occupation. Note how 70% of people killed during the Gaza conflict were civilians. Examine how Israel doesn't even let convoys carrying food and medicine into the Gaza strip. Perhaps read Red Cross, UN and Amnesty reports which emphasise Israel's use of human shields and purposeful killing of innocent people unrelated to any terrorist movement with no proof of terrorists firing rockets etc. nearby.

    Going after Hamas is justifiable because they are terrorists and admittedly this results in collateral damage. Purposely targeting schools, homes and ambulances with no connection to terrorists is a war crime. Amnesty international says "disturbing questions" remain unanswered as to why children playing on roofs and medical staff attending the wounded were killed by "highly accurate missiles" whose operators had detailed views of their targets.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Ahh..yes, the good old "they kill civilians so we should kill more". Read my previous two enormous posts on how Israel employs a system of apartheid in the country itself and the areas under occupation. Note how 70% of people killed during the Gaza conflict were civilians. Examine how Israel doesn't even let convoys carrying food and medicine into the Gaza strip. Perhaps read Red Cross, UN and Amnesty reports which emphasise Israel's use of human shields and purposeful killing of innocent people unrelated to any terrorist movement with no proof of terrorists firing rockets etc. nearby.

    Going after Hamas is justifiable because they are terrorists and admittedly this results in collateral damage. Purposely targeting schools, homes and ambulances with no connection to terrorists is a war crime. Amnesty international says "disturbing questions" remain unanswered as to why children playing on roofs and medical staff attending the wounded were killed by "highly accurate missiles" whose operators had detailed views of their targets.
    Let's get the story straight. The blockade was imposed on Gaza BECAUSE of Hamas' attacks, not the other way round. Israel opened their blockade on the proviso that Hamas stopped firing rockets. What did they do? Started firing rockets again. How ELSE can Israel fight Hamas?

    Aside from the fact that yes, purposefully targeting schools, homes etc is a war crimed practiced by some elements of the Israeli Army and a doctrine endorsed, designed and practiced by the command elements of Hamas, (See the difference?), and yes this doesn't absolve the Israelis who do such things of guilt, yes, they should be brought to trial and justice, Hamas do exactly the same thing. The only difference is that Hamas rockets don't kill as many people and so international human rights don't give a **** about it. The IDF is the reason Hamas isn't running into synagogues, schools and hospitals with AKMs and massacring hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The IDF is the reason that 3 million Jews in the Levant are still alive. Human Rights groups should not forget that.

    I know what Israel does. I don't hold Israel up as a shining example of how to run a state. On the other hand, if they stopped what they did, there is no guarantee whatsoever that the Muslims would lay down their arms. None whatsoever.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Go away you pretentious son of a *****. If you love Palestine and Islam so much go and fight for it. Oh, see what I did there?
    It's one thing to express support towards a beseiged population,its another to make self-righteous proclamations about morality and conventions in a conflict from the comfort of your home.
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    (Original post by Krakatoa)
    It's one thing to express support towards a beseiged population,its another to make self-righteous proclamations about morality and conventions in a conflict from the comfort of your home.
    Besieged people? Look at a map of the Islamic world. The Israelis are the besieged people here. To their south, north and east they are surrounded by enemies who want to drive them to the sea in the west.

    If you want to use the pathetic excuse of "you're not there so you can't make moral conclusions because you ARENT A PALESTINIAN" why don't you put yourself in the boots of an Israeli soldier who's wife and children are in the firing range of Hamas' rockets? Who grew up on his grandfather's stories of the concentration camps? You can't make self-righteous proclamations about morality because you aren't him, amirite?
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    Only the US and Australian governments class Hamas as a terrorist organisation... oh and Israel. :rolleyes: The far greater majority of world governments do not class the democratically elected Hamas as a terrorist organisation.
    You haven't got a single ounce of credibility in you. The EU essentially lists it as a terrorist organisation. The UK describes it military wing as a terrorist organisation - and Hamas has control over that. So don't try to pull a distinction or one could easily say that there is a difference between Israel and the IDF. Oh, Canada. And Japan. What happened to "only" US, Australia and Israel?

    Terrorism is a means. And Hamas use that means. Being democratically elected and using terrorist means are not incompatible. And don't start talking about Israel: we're talking about Hamas being a terrorist organisation. Unless you have a retarded definition of terrorism, you are quite frankly wrong.
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    I'll close this and redirect you to this thread for discussion regarding Israel/Palestinian conflicts in the International Affairs sub-forum in D&D.

    Thanks.
 
 
 
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