Guy put on sex offenders list because girl lied about her age

Jonty99

Girl: I was raped.
Boy: I didn't rape her.

Surely they can't just accept the girl's word, can they?

It has happened. Better chance of conviction if there is more than simple word against each other.
A good defence lawyer would look for witness or film that they were all over each other, that heavy petting etc was taking place.....
A good prosecutor would look for lack of those, or something about her rejecting advances.
In the end though it can come down to one person against another.

Saying that, in the UK at times we've convicted on fake testimony.

Reply 282

cowsgoquack

marcusfox

No. Thats why the CPS are loath to prosecute such cases. But often they are under pressure to do so and in court it fails because juries are not going to go all out on the one person's word against another angle.

And then people complain that the rape conviction rate is bad.

I tell you what, this thread has been jackpot for 'who quoted me'

Reply 283

EDIT

You can't be serious. This is down to personal responsibility, he is the victim here. He has had his named completely tarnished because this little brat tricked him. You can't expect people to ID every prospective partner - if she didn't look blatantly under-age then why would you question someone who tells you they are 16?

They are both victims. Her in the eyes of the law, him in the eyes of some on here for not being treated differently.

Unfortunately its the law that counts. He can appeal maybe. If there's something to appeal with.
And in the meantime he's banned from a lot of jobs and careers.

Reply 284

cowsgoquack

im really intrigued to see her, cos I work with 11 and 12 year olds and most of them haven't even developed yet and look about, well 12. There is one guy and girl that could maybe be about 14 but you can tell because... he has no hair (no i have not checked his pubes) and she has no boobs

I think this must be a case of a ridiculously early developed girl/slut and a ridiculously niave and horny guy that goes for really young girls.

There has been a study published fairly recently that put the average age of puberty for girls at 9.
It compared a couple of previous decades, including I think 1950, and the age for puberty has decreased from the data available.

I used to be a youth leader before moving house. 11 to 14 age group mostly - one girl who had just turned 12 could easily pass for 18, 5 foot 7 and with the right clothes could get into a nightclub, several of the younger ones could look 16. What do you say when a girl on her 13th birthday tells you proudly she's a C cup now?

Doesn't sound like the girl in this court case was a slut. How many times had she had sex?
And a horny guy that goes for what he may have believed was a 16 year old.

Reply 285

Psyk

mart2306

And yet he did get punished. Not for her looking and acting 16, but for having sex with a 12 year old.

If she had been 15 maybe people could look the other way, not so many teenagers are taken to court for sex with a 15 year old.
But a 12 year old?

Yes, she lied. But he was the one the court treat as being the only person able to consent to sex. He decided to have sex.

So treat him in a similar way to other males having sex with a 12 year old girl.

If she had died before the sex act he'd have been done for necrophilia probably as well - when was the last time any of us checked the pulse of the person we were having sex with?

Even if she was just 13 he probably wouldn't have been punished. There's a legal distinction between sex with someone under 16 but older than 13, and having sex with someone under 13. If they're under 13, you commit a crime by having sex with them even if you honestly believe they are over 16, like in this case.

If they're over 13, it's only illegal if you know or suspect they are under 16.

The fact is, in this case because of the way the law is defined, his knowledge of her age is irrelevant to whether he's guilty or not. I guess the reasoning is that it's so unlikely for a 12 year old to easily pass as 16, it's safer to make it illegal full stop. At least the court recognised this and gave him the lightest sentence they could.

Reply 286

menagerie

From the BBC report:

She claimed that she didn't want to have sex in the park. The article also says:

She got home, her mum questioned why she was late, she confessed and then fed the police some bull**** line about wanting to wait until her honeymoon. 12 years old is more than old enough to be manipulative.

And girls do occasionally wait until their wedding night or honeymoon (wedding night not always the best night for sex after a very long day).
Not common, not unknown either.
More 12 year old virgins than 16 year old ones. She may have believed she wanted to wait until her honeymoon.

Reply 287

Psyk

Even if she was just 13 he probably wouldn't have been punished. There's a legal distinction between sex with someone under 16 but older than 13, and having sex with someone under 13. If they're under 13, you commit a crime by having sex with them even if you honestly believe they are over 16, like in this case.

If they're over 13, it's only illegal if you know or suspect they are under 16.

The fact is, in this case because of the way the law is defined, his knowledge of her age is irrelevant to whether he's guilty or not. I guess the reasoning is that it's so unlikely for a 12 year old to easily pass as 16, it's safer to make it illegal full stop. At least the court recognised this and gave him the lightest sentence they could.

Yes, his sentence wasn't as bad as it could have been.
Could easily have been 10 or 15 years on sex register. And the prison sentence as I recall was suspended. So he doesn't do anything illegal for a while he avoids jail.

He won't likely be ever able to take a job involving contact with children or vulnerable adults, CRB checks would pick up conviction.

Reply 288

Wangers

cowsgoquack

I don't understand the point in this thread, he didn't verify her age (passport/birth certificate etc.) so he couldn't have known that she was overage so he raped her.

SO everytime you have sex you expect to see someone's passport?!

Reply 289

Ministerdonut

Exactly. I personally think rape, is one of the worst crimes possible, and like many other crimes isn't punished harshly enough.

The likes of Harriet Harman would say,that it's a mans responsibility to make sure a girl consents but as has been shown in the past ,a minority of girls change their minds to save their own skin or malicious reasons.

I would ask Harriet Harman a question

1 Do you not think that girls can be given the same level of responsibility in terms of sexual relations as a guy,because you seem to suggest it's completely the males responsibility to ascertain consent? Could a drunken male never be taken advantage of by a sober or slightly less drunk female? Aren't you in effect being sexist towards women?By acting like they are natural victims, and don't in effect know their own minds?This attitude hardly does great things for womens lib.

Harriet Harman just hates men.
Read Hansard sometime - the house of commons record of the house.
She doesn't talk about people who do xxxx, she talks about men who do xxxx.
Doesn't matter if women can do it too, she'll target men.

Her speeches regarding child support are sometimes funny, sometimes sad, often showing her contempt.

Oh and yes, a drunk male can be taken advantage of by a female. A handful of reported cases, nothing like rape figures for females of course but men often don't report rape even when they have been forced.

Reply 290

paella

14

It's for the girl to accurately portray her age. If she lies, it's her lookout. Outrageous.

Reply 291

ghanglish

The dangers of one night stands with randoms...

Reply 292

Reue

20

Absoloutly gutted for the guy. The judge acknowledges the girl can pass for being 16. He met her on a website which you have to be over 14 to register and she lied about her age.

IMO this is entirely the girl's fault.

Reply 293

marcusfox

Wangers

SO everytime you have sex you expect to see someone's passport?!

Actually she does - we have clarified that point somewhat earlier!

Most of pages 6-9 and post 260!

Reply 294

EDIT

2

mart2306

They are both victims. Her in the eyes of the law, him in the eyes of some on here for not being treated differently.

Unfortunately its the law that counts. He can appeal maybe. If there's something to appeal with.
And in the meantime he's banned from a lot of jobs and careers.

I'm no lawyer but the age of consent law exists primarily to prosecute people who lure young children into bed. If it was actually enforced then the police would be in and out of schools every single day tracking down people who have under-age sex.

This man did not lure an under-age girl into bed from his point of view. He was none the wiser.

Reply 295

Crazy Paving

17

Ok, I think it is unfair, but it teaches him for sleeping with random people. He should not have done anything, unless he was absolutely sure of her age.

Reply 296

Diogeues

It may seem harsh; it's not like he's going to do much to check further after she tells him she's old enough.

Reply 297

EDIT

I'm no lawyer but the age of consent law exists primarily to prosecute people who lure young children into bed. If it was actually enforced then the police would be in and out of schools every single day tracking down people who have under-age sex.

This man did not lure an under-age girl into bed from his point of view. He was none the wiser.

So to you he is the victim maybe?
But in the eyes of the law she is the victim by virtue of her age.

We raised the age of consent from age 12 to age 16 because children of age 12 were deemed not able to decide to have sex maturely. Regardless of whether she led him on or not, he was deemed the only person in that relationship capable of consenting to sex.

Reply 298

anti-duck

9

I don't agree with the punishment.

In these types of cases, according to the law, it's your own responsibility to know who you're having sex with. He has nobody to blame but himself, her setting her age to 16 on Facebook is in no way reasonable grounds for believing she is 16 either; though I think the sex offenders register is misused and he shouldn't be on it at all.

Reply 299