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Should we forgive the germans or not

Reply 20

ben2111

Eternal Idol

Thanks hehe.

Hey, how you doing man?

:biggrin:

I forgive you!!! just kidding, you didn't do anything wrong to be forgiven.

PPPPSSSSSTTTT Do not let the others notice :biggrin:

After your forgiveness I am doing brillantly though...

Reply 21

ddan

OP

gemgems89

Yes, the Germans back then.

I watched a video today, most of the Germans, back then, knew about what was going on to the Jews and never said a word. All of it could have been prevented if they would have spoke up. It's arrogance.

How can we forigve them for killing millions of people and not have the slightest bit of remourse. Many Nazis commited suicide and tried to destroy the evidence. That's how guilty they were.

But today, some Germans feel ashamed to be German because of it. They didn't do it, the Germans that lived during 1939-45 were involved and they are the ones to that we can't forgive.

if u went 2 germany 2 day and asked them about it they will still feeled ashamed dat there ancessters did that

Reply 22

Muffle

gemgems89

Yes, the Germans back then.

I watched a video today, most of the Germans, back then, knew about what was going on to the Jews and never said a word. All of it could have been prevented if they would have spoke up. It's arrogance.

How can we forigve them for killing millions of people and not have the slightest bit of remorse. Many Nazis commited suicide and tried to destroy the evidence. That's how guilty they were.

But today, some Germans feel ashamed to be German because of it. They didn't do it, the Germans that lived during 1939-45 were involved and they are the ones to that we can't forgive.

Alot of 1939-45 Germans didnt vote for the Nazis, and the majority of those who did did so out of desperation. Many Germans who lived in that era are full of remose, how can we forigve the people who ran Britiain during the empire-era who brutally invaded nations killing many thousands if not millions?

Reply 23

EI_123

ben2111

PPPPSSSSSTTTT Do not let the others notice :biggrin:

After your forgiveness I am doing brillantly though...

UPSSS, sorry, I've a big mouth hehehe.
:biggrin:

Reply 24

Howard

5

gemgems89

Yes, the Germans back then.

I watched a video today, most of the Germans, back then, knew about what was going on to the Jews and never said a word. All of it could have been prevented if they would have spoke up. It's arrogance.

How can we forigve them for killing millions of people and not have the slightest bit of remorse. Many Nazis commited suicide and tried to destroy the evidence. That's how guilty they were.

But today, some Germans feel ashamed to be German because of it. They didn't do it, the Germans that lived during 1939-45 were involved and they are the ones to that we can't forgive.

Absolutely. It's nonsense to suggest that the Germans didn't know what was going on. Given the very visible and absorbing environment of anti-semitism that preceeded the holocaust from 1933 onwards I think it would be very difficult to round up six million folks onto cattle trucks without anyone suspecting something a bit odd was going on.

But, putting myself in their place I have to ask myself this. Could I honestly put my hand on my heart and declare that I'd have spoken against it when it was fairly evident that to do so would secure a place for me in a political correction prgram? No, I can't.

And I dare say that nobody else on this forum can unless of course we are all so much more morally superior to the German citizens of 1942 onwards.

Another interesting point is that is not an accusation that can be exclusively levelled at the Germans. What did the non-jewish Polish population do as the Germans created the Warsaw getto? Did they speak out? No.

Reply 25

Bigcnee

11

This is a dumb thread.

a) It's not up to you to give forgiveness for what happened.

b) It's not up to the current German generation to be seeking forgiveness.

Reply 26

EI_123

Howard

Absolutely. It's nonsense to suggest that the Germans didn't know what was going on. Given the very visible and absorbing environment of anti-semitism that preceeded the holocaust from 1933 onwards I think it would be very difficult to round up six million folks onto cattle trucks without anyone suspecting something a bit odd was going on.

But, putting myself in their place I have to ask myself this. Could I honestly put my hand on my heart and declare that I'd have spoken against it when it was fairly evident that to do so would secure a place for me in a political correction prgram? No, I can't.

And I dare say that nobody else on this forum can unless of course we are all so much more morally superior to the German citizens of 1942 onwards.

Another interesting point is that is not an accusation that can be exclusively levelled at the Germans. What did the non-jewish Polish population do as the Germans created the Warsaw getto? Did they speak out? No.

I agree with the guilty of the ones that did the holocaust but we can't still blaim all germans, there are a lot more that weren't even born in that time.

Reply 27

gemgems89

15

Howard

Absolutely. It's nonsense to suggest that the Germans didn't know what was going on. Given the very visible and absorbing environment of anti-semitism that preceeded the holocaust from 1933 onwards I think it would be very difficult to round up six million folks onto cattle trucks without anyone suspecting something a bit odd was going on.

Exactly. Don't tell me that they didn't smell death. Didn't see millions of people being taken away. Didn't suspect a thing. Didn't hear the screams.

Reply 28

Bigcnee

11

gemgems89

Exactly. Don't tell me that they didn't smell death. Didn't see millions of people being taken away. Didn't suspect a thing. Didn't hear the screams.

Ever thought of a career as a writer?

Reply 29

ben2111

Bigcnee

Ever thought of a career as a writer?

hahaha very good :biggrin:

Reply 30

Howard

5

Muffle

Alot of 1939-45 Germans didnt vote for the Nazis, and the majority of those who did did so out of desperation. Many Germans who lived in that era are full of remose, how can we forigve the people who ran Britiain during the empire-era who brutally invaded nations killing many thousands if not millions?

I think that's a good point. This forum is full of folks who are unable to let go of the impact of British colonialism and feel that British citizens today "owe something" to citizens of former colonies in compensation, regardless of the fact that probably 90% of Brits in Victorian England lived in conditions of poverty, and probably never left their home counties, let alone surpressed anybody in India.

I'm surprized therefore to find so many folks willing to forgive the Germans for something far more recent, which after all occurred in their own back yards.

Double standards, I'd say.

Reply 31

gemgems89

15

Bigcnee

Ever thought of a career as a writer?

I've considered it. :rolleyes:

Reply 32

ben2111

gemgems89

Exactly. Don't tell me that they didn't smell death. Didn't see millions of people being taken away. Didn't suspect a thing. Didn't hear the screams.

Very poetic indeed, I can just tell you my personal opinion, nobody can know.
According to my grandparents (three of them which still live) the population in the cities (especially Berlin) rather knew what was going on, there was the biggest Jewish community. Apparently in the smaller cities people knew there was something going on but only few had a more exact idea about the concentration camps. In the rural areas people were not too touched by politics until the war started, I would say.
I agree, the Germans can never deny the fact that not ebough people stood up, especially in the beginning. Only one little excuse can be that Hitler was underrated for a long time, people outside the south (Munich) just did not take him serious, with all his stupid aggressive statements. And when Hitler had won the 1933 election it was in fact too late - I do not know if I would stand up, quite honestly. It was plain suicide and very few who spoke a word are still alive.

Much of this has been said in the thread, I think it is still a very serious issue! I believe in historical guilt (as vienna might know ;-), on my side and on other sides (respect muffin, your post about the imperialists was impressive! wanted to give you rep but couldnt). It can maybe help prevent things from repeating.

but thanks to all who forgive us!!! :biggrin:

Reply 33

gemgems89

15

ben2111

but thanks to all who forgive us!!! :biggrin:

"Who forgive us" ? Who is "us" ?

Reply 34

TK

gemgems89

Who forgive "us" ? Who is "us" ?

the germans :smile:

- he is from Munich :biggrin:

Reply 35

gemgems89

15

Tinykates

the germans :smile:

- he is from Munich :biggrin:

Ah. Well it's not you who needs forgiving. It's the Nazis and the pro-Nazis over 50 years ago.

Reply 36

lilmissnaughty

surely the germans should be forgiven, because those germans who are alive today are a completely differnt generation, so have nothing to do wit the holocaust. those germans of the older generation who may have been around at that time surely did not wish for this to happen, however were scared by hitler.

eg) shelter jews - no rations

this is why many did not shelter the jews, as they feared for their own familys. my grandma, however did house 4 jewish people. for reasons such as these surely you cannot condemn all people and unless you are a genius (or psychic) im doubtful you would be able to work out which to condemn and 'not forgive' for the holocaust

-steph
xxxx

btw, i'm german, lol! :biggrin:

Reply 37

Howard

5

gemgems89

Ah. Well it's not you who needs forgiving. It's the Nazis and the pro-Nazis over 50 years ago.

No, by his own standards Benn also needs forgiving. He's a believer in historical guilt don't forget.

Reply 38

gemgems89

15

lilmissnaughty

surely the germans should be forgiven, because those germans who are alive today are a completely differnt generation, so have nothing to do wit the holocaust. those germans of the older generation who may have been around at that time surely did not wish for this to happen, however were scared by hitler.

eg) shelter jews - no rations

this is why many did not shelter the jews, as they feared for their own familys. my grandma, however did house 4 jewish people. for reasons such as these surely you cannot condemn all people and unless you are a genius (or psychic) im doubtful you would be able to work out which to condemn and 'not forgive' for the holocaust

-steph
xxxx

btw, i'm german, lol! :biggrin:

Well maybe they were scared of Hitler which is why they didn't speak out but I, personally, if it meant saving millions of lives, would speak out. Millions of people for just one life.