Insulting religion...
A musical ridiculing the Mormon religion has opened to rave reviews on Broadway. "The Book of Mormon," a hilarious piss take of Mormonism which left audiences roaring with laughter has won nine Tony awards.
As the sophisticated culturati, with Hillary Clinton in the lead, left the theatre wiping tears of laughter from ther eyes, they were confronted with horrifying news. Someone had posted a film clip on Youtube mocking the prophet Muhammed. The culturati, the liberal left and much of the media as well as politicians around the world were incandescent with rage at this insult to the faith of Muslims. Hillary Clinton, still a little hoarse from laughing her way through "The Book of Mormon" issued a stern statement condemning the "disgusting and reprehensible" Youtube insult to the Prophet of Islam.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444450004578002010241044712.html
In order to protect Islam and its Prophet from insult, the 67th session of the United Nations General Assembly will consider the adoption of international legislation against insulting religion when it meets next week.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-to-ask-un-for-legal-action-on-film.aspx?pageID=238&nID=30628&NewsCatID=338
As the sophisticated culturati, with Hillary Clinton in the lead, left the theatre wiping tears of laughter from ther eyes, they were confronted with horrifying news. Someone had posted a film clip on Youtube mocking the prophet Muhammed. The culturati, the liberal left and much of the media as well as politicians around the world were incandescent with rage at this insult to the faith of Muslims. Hillary Clinton, still a little hoarse from laughing her way through "The Book of Mormon" issued a stern statement condemning the "disgusting and reprehensible" Youtube insult to the Prophet of Islam.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444450004578002010241044712.html
In order to protect Islam and its Prophet from insult, the 67th session of the United Nations General Assembly will consider the adoption of international legislation against insulting religion when it meets next week.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-to-ask-un-for-legal-action-on-film.aspx?pageID=238&nID=30628&NewsCatID=338
(edited 11 years ago)
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I think I've said enough already on this, anything I say now would just be a repeat of what myself and countless others have mentioned. I can only just sigh and hope that muslims worldwide will grow a pair of balls and not take a tantrum out on those who don't deserve it every time says something bad about Muhammad.
Difference is Mormons don't generally care if someone makes a joke about their religion and they recognize that things like the book of Mormon musical are just satire and are not meant to be taken seriously. How religions are treated is defined by their followers, Mormons are generally westernized, peaceful and despite many holding some quite fundamentalist views pretty tolerant so when someone makes a joke at their expense they just laugh along. Religions are not equal, a bit of legislation might say that all religious beliefs are treated equally but in reality that simply isn't the case.
Anyway the UN has about as much legislative power over this kind of thing as my left testicle, the only way this would ever go through is if the ECHR approved it which will never happen since it would probably result in a number of countries refusing to accept the judgment and put a massive amount of strain on an already fragile EU.
Anyway the UN has about as much legislative power over this kind of thing as my left testicle, the only way this would ever go through is if the ECHR approved it which will never happen since it would probably result in a number of countries refusing to accept the judgment and put a massive amount of strain on an already fragile EU.
Original post by Darth Stewie
Difference is Mormons don't generally care if someone makes a joke about their religion and they recognize that things like the book of Mormon musical are just satire and are not meant to be taken seriously. How religions are treated is defined by their followers, Mormons are generally westernized, peaceful and despite many holding some quite fundamentalist views pretty tolerant so when someone makes a joke at their expense they just laugh along. Religions are not equal, a bit of legislation might say that all religious beliefs are treated equally but in reality that simply isn't the case.
Anyway the UN has about as much legislative power over this kind of thing as my left testicle, the only way this would ever go through is if the ECHR approved it which will never happen since it would probably result in a number of countries refusing to accept the judgment and put a massive amount of strain on an already fragile EU.
Anyway the UN has about as much legislative power over this kind of thing as my left testicle, the only way this would ever go through is if the ECHR approved it which will never happen since it would probably result in a number of countries refusing to accept the judgment and put a massive amount of strain on an already fragile EU.
It just goes to show that changing one's behaviour in response to the immature tantrums of one sector of the world only encourages repetition. Imagine the respect that the Muslim world would get if just once, when something like this happened, they decided to react maturely and have no violent demonstrations at all but simply make their point that causing gratuitous offence is neither big nor clever, but everyone has the right to an opinion? They would be recognized as a civilized and mature culture.
(edited 11 years ago)
It really does amaze me.
What do these people hope to achieve? Oh no people are starting to ridicule religion and not put it on a pedestal. Everybody is starting to see how ridiculous it is so if we lock up those who don't agree with it then people won't criticise it and suddenly religion which is dying off will slow it's decline.
Pathetic. If somebody insults your god you don't go killing people and causing havoc, you take firm relief in the fact that nothing can disturb your faith and that they will suffer the consequences in the after life.
Maybe they're all really that insecure?
What do these people hope to achieve? Oh no people are starting to ridicule religion and not put it on a pedestal. Everybody is starting to see how ridiculous it is so if we lock up those who don't agree with it then people won't criticise it and suddenly religion which is dying off will slow it's decline.
Pathetic. If somebody insults your god you don't go killing people and causing havoc, you take firm relief in the fact that nothing can disturb your faith and that they will suffer the consequences in the after life.
Maybe they're all really that insecure?
Original post by marcusfox
It just goes to show that changing one's behaviour in response to the immature tantrums of one sector of the world only encourages repetition. Imagine the respect that the Muslim world would get if just once, when something like this happened, they decided to react maturely and have no violent demonstrations at all but simply make their point that causing gratuitous offence is neither big nor clever, but everyone has the right to an opinion? They would be recognized as a civilized and mature culture.
tbh even if they made insulting Muhammad and Islam illegal these kinds of things would still happen, they are rioting and killing people because they know it works. I honestly think whoever is in charge of dealing with these kinds of issues could benefit from watching a few episodes of super nanny. If a kid wants a cupcake and starts screaming and throwing tantrums you don't give the kid a cupcake because all that will happen is he will learn acting a certain way gets results. Likewise when Muslims start jihading all over the place you don't apologize for for upsetting them you sit their asses on the naughty step until they learn to behave.
Haha yeah right, that's going to happen, it automatically criminalizes the entire population of the world (including Muslims) because someone somewhere always has an opinion which is considered insulting to some faith or another.
Turkey's Islamist leader can go **** off.
Turkey's Islamist leader can go **** off.
People seem to take religion way more seriously than anything else. This not only applies in the real world, but also on TSR. If I say something critical about someones political views, music tastes or any other views they have or choices they have made, I will often find I have recieved a few of either reps or neg reps. But I am never silenced on such topics and the criticism is accepted as constructive. If however one says something critical about religion, and especially one religion in particular (
), one will find themselves bombarded with neg reps.
), one will find themselves bombarded with neg reps.(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Historicity
It really does amaze me.
What do these people hope to achieve? Oh no people are starting to ridicule religion and not put it on a pedestal. Everybody is starting to see how ridiculous it is so if we lock up those who don't agree with it then people won't criticise it and suddenly religion which is dying off will slow it's decline.
Pathetic. If somebody insults your god you don't go killing people and causing havoc, you take firm relief in the fact that nothing can disturb your faith and that they will suffer the consequences in the after life.
Maybe they're all really that insecure?
What do these people hope to achieve? Oh no people are starting to ridicule religion and not put it on a pedestal. Everybody is starting to see how ridiculous it is so if we lock up those who don't agree with it then people won't criticise it and suddenly religion which is dying off will slow it's decline.
Pathetic. If somebody insults your god you don't go killing people and causing havoc, you take firm relief in the fact that nothing can disturb your faith and that they will suffer the consequences in the after life.
Maybe they're all really that insecure?
But why insult in the first place?
Original post by squishy123
But why insult in the first place?
Because freedom to criticise is just as important as freedom to compliment.
People can criticise it because they think it is unfair to women, dangerous, a huge lie. Why should people not be able to say what they think?
Original post by marcusfox
A musical ridiculing the Mormon religion has opened to rave reviews on Broadway. "The Book of Mormon," a hilarious piss take of Mormonism which left audiences roaring with laughter has won nine Tony awards.
As the sophisticated culturati, with Hillary Clinton in the lead, left the theatre wiping tears of laughter from ther eyes, they were confronted with horrifying news. Someone had posted a film clip on Youtube mocking the prophet Muhammed. The culturati, the liberal left and much of the media as well as politicians around the world were incandescent with rage at this insult to the faith of Muslims. Hillary Clinton, still a little hoarse from laughing her way through "The Book of Mormon" issued a stern statement condemning the "disgusting and reprehensible" Youtube insult to the Prophet of Islam.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444450004578002010241044712.html
In order to protect Islam and its Prophet from insult, the 67th session of the United Nations General Assembly will consider the adoption of international legislation against insulting religion when it meets next week.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-to-ask-un-for-legal-action-on-film.aspx?pageID=238&nID=30628&NewsCatID=338
As the sophisticated culturati, with Hillary Clinton in the lead, left the theatre wiping tears of laughter from ther eyes, they were confronted with horrifying news. Someone had posted a film clip on Youtube mocking the prophet Muhammed. The culturati, the liberal left and much of the media as well as politicians around the world were incandescent with rage at this insult to the faith of Muslims. Hillary Clinton, still a little hoarse from laughing her way through "The Book of Mormon" issued a stern statement condemning the "disgusting and reprehensible" Youtube insult to the Prophet of Islam.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444450004578002010241044712.html
In order to protect Islam and its Prophet from insult, the 67th session of the United Nations General Assembly will consider the adoption of international legislation against insulting religion when it meets next week.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-to-ask-un-for-legal-action-on-film.aspx?pageID=238&nID=30628&NewsCatID=338
The difference between the two is that TBOM is actually really nice to the Mormons themselves, praises the fact that their faith is a good thing for them and doesnt insult them, merely having a couple of good natured jibes about the more insane stuff that they believe in, like magical underwear and everyone getting their own planet. It mocks elements of what they believe, but in a nice and kind way which is respectful that they do truly believe what they are saying, and that it drives them to do good in the world. It benefits the world by paying testament to those of the Mormon faith, explaining how important their beliefs are to them and how it benefits the world by motivating them to commit good acts
The 'Innocence of Muslims' bit is needlessly crass and childish, portraying a well known philosopher and religious/historical figure with a sexuality and hedonism that he never had, insulting his character and followers with little wit or conception of what it means to be a muslim. It does not respect those who follow such a faith in a way which benefits their own lives without hurting others, and is specifically designed to wind them up and insult them so that the people making it feel edgy. It has absolutely no artistic merit or positive contribution to the worlds understanding of others, which means there is little public interest in it being made or broadcast.
The two examples really arent the same
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Historicity
Because freedom to criticise is just as important as freedom to compliment.
People can criticise it because they think it is unfair to women, dangerous, a huge lie. Why should people not be able to say what they think?
People can criticise it because they think it is unfair to women, dangerous, a huge lie. Why should people not be able to say what they think?
Isn't debating a better choice than criticism?
Original post by squishy123
Isn't debating a better choice than criticism?
Debates involve criticism, you're just being picky.
People say that religion shouldn't be free of being insulted, but you're not exactly allowed to be anti-Semitic.... and people who think that it's OK to insult Muslims,but not Jews are deeply hypocritical and have double standards
If however you think that both the religions can be insulted or none can, then of course the double standards don't exist however the public does seem to have double standards when it comes to religion
If however you think that both the religions can be insulted or none can, then of course the double standards don't exist however the public does seem to have double standards when it comes to religion
The Arab media and general Arabic public are perfectly comfortable with satire, just as long as it's satirizing Jews and Westerners. If you want to see a racist children's tv show or magazine cartoons involving Jews? Look no further. Want to see a hilarious report warning people about the dangers of western society and culture, and how it's infinitely inferior to Sharia and Arab culture? No worries, there's a never ending supply of that. Want to read an astonishing number of creative insults which amount to saying you are less than dirt for being an atheist? Crack open a Koran.
You see, satire and insults are fine for the mainstream Arab media (no, not all Muslims before you accuse me of sweeping generalizations).
You see, satire and insults are fine for the mainstream Arab media (no, not all Muslims before you accuse me of sweeping generalizations).
Original post by Historicity
Debates involve criticism, you're just being picky.
And here I was thinking debates were an exchange of ideas kind of thing.
Debate Definition:
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing.
Oh look, Wikipedia says it too:
"Debate is a method of interactive and representational argument."
Now, tell me which part of the video was "interactive" or "discussing"...
Original post by squishy123
And here I was thinking debates were an exchange of ideas kind of thing.
Debate Definition:
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing.
Oh look, Wikipedia says it too:
"Debate is a method of interactive and representational argument."
Now, tell me which part of the video was "interactive" or "discussing"...
Debate Definition:
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing.
Oh look, Wikipedia says it too:
"Debate is a method of interactive and representational argument."
Now, tell me which part of the video was "interactive" or "discussing"...
You're trying to be clever and you just look pretentious.
If you oppose something what do you do? Criticise it. Therefore we are open to criticism.
What are you talking about the video for? I never mentioned the video once, I was talking about criticism in general.
Original post by Historicity
You're trying to be clever and you just look pretentious.
Nope, just stating facts.
If you oppose something what do you do? Criticise it. Therefore we are open to criticism.
You discuss it with a person who doesn't want to criticize it (i.e: engage in debate) and then after that, come to a rational and logical conclusion. The guy made no attempt to debate or criticize, he just slap bang started to ridicule and mock.
What are you talking about the video for? I never mentioned the video once, I was talking about criticism in general.
So do you believe the video was really trying to criticize or just making a mockery?
Original post by squishy123
Nope, just stating facts.
You discuss it with a person who doesn't want to criticize it (i.e: engage in debate) and then after that, come to a rational and logical conclusion. The guy made no attempt to debate or criticize, he just slap bang started to ridicule and mock.
So do you believe the video was really trying to criticize or just making a mockery?
You discuss it with a person who doesn't want to criticize it (i.e: engage in debate) and then after that, come to a rational and logical conclusion. The guy made no attempt to debate or criticize, he just slap bang started to ridicule and mock.
So do you believe the video was really trying to criticize or just making a mockery?
If I'm in a debate with somebody who doesn't want to criticise what we are talking about it is not a debate, it is them supporting the cause. Especially on both sides. And so what, he mocked it, why do no cancer patients kick off over family guy jokes or Americans kick off over 9/11 comedy jokes? We can actually see them affecting people too. The video didn't even directly hurt somebody (unless somebody was killed in the making.).
I can't comment because I've only seen the first ten seconds of the video and realised it was absolute drivel not worth my time. The video is wrong but it does not justify the reaction.
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