LLB What uni? HELP!
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Is what a serious question?
ADVICE FROM PUPIL SUPERVISOR (Pupil Master)
You will always find that the majority of people that gain places on Pupilages at most chambers will be from the best universities, have the best A levels and typically from Private schools. This is because they have had access to Universities, the chambers know for certain provide an excellent Law education. This is not to say that other people do not gain a pupilage because they do. It is not a case of who but why.
He went on to explain that if you have proved yourself to be excellent by way of skills as a Barrister and show excellent academic ability, you will not be turned away simply on the university you attended.
The lower ranked university you attended, the busier you will need to be proving your ability. He said "Beleieve me, people from the top 5 apply for Pupilages who have done nothing more then fly through their degree, we are not going to take a chance on someone like that, it takes more than a first degree to become a Barrister and the best Barristers come from all different walks of life and have very different stories to tell"
He also advised that it depends on what area you are interested in.
As I have always known and have never argued, those in the majority will always have a better chance and are more likely to get to the Bar. I am not interested in this because I will never be in the minority. I am simply interested in knowing what is possible and what is factually impossible, that facts can back up.
I have yet to speak to someone in the profession that has told me it is impossible.
You will always find that the majority of people that gain places on Pupilages at most chambers will be from the best universities, have the best A levels and typically from Private schools. This is because they have had access to Universities, the chambers know for certain provide an excellent Law education. This is not to say that other people do not gain a pupilage because they do. It is not a case of who but why.
He went on to explain that if you have proved yourself to be excellent by way of skills as a Barrister and show excellent academic ability, you will not be turned away simply on the university you attended.
The lower ranked university you attended, the busier you will need to be proving your ability. He said "Beleieve me, people from the top 5 apply for Pupilages who have done nothing more then fly through their degree, we are not going to take a chance on someone like that, it takes more than a first degree to become a Barrister and the best Barristers come from all different walks of life and have very different stories to tell"
He also advised that it depends on what area you are interested in.
As I have always known and have never argued, those in the majority will always have a better chance and are more likely to get to the Bar. I am not interested in this because I will never be in the minority. I am simply interested in knowing what is possible and what is factually impossible, that facts can back up.
I have yet to speak to someone in the profession that has told me it is impossible.
Original post by Eternal*
have you considered city university london instead of kingston. Even though their requirements are ridiculous, i got in with BCC through clearing.
Hello,
No, I am considering applying to Croydon University Centre to study LLB, which is provided by London Metropolitan university, for reasons that can be found nearer the beginning of this thread.
I have the grades required to get into UCL and more than enough to get into Kingston but want to attend a university that is a lot closer to me. If it was possible for me to move, I would go to UCL no question but it is not and I do not want to waste over 3 hours a Day travelling when I could be putting my time towards research, mooting, mini pupilage etc.
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
Is this a serious question?
Is what a serious question?
Original post by crystal1330
Is what a serious question?
Out of those choices UCL is so obvious that it scarcely needs to be said.
Yes I KNOW that UCL is far better. What I have been trying to find out is how your chances are effected by graduating from a lower ranked uni.
I have never questioned which one is better, I know they are one of the best and this is why I have a dilemma. Better ranked over connivance..
I have never questioned which one is better, I know they are one of the best and this is why I have a dilemma. Better ranked over connivance..
in·gé·nue also in·ge·nue (zh-n)
n.
1. A naive, innocent girl or young woman.
You see these people who are telling you it doesn't matter what university you go to, they are being un-frank.
Yes, someone from Croydon College might get a job as a barrister. But it is an almost vanishingly unlikely occurence.
n.
1. A naive, innocent girl or young woman.
You see these people who are telling you it doesn't matter what university you go to, they are being un-frank.
Yes, someone from Croydon College might get a job as a barrister. But it is an almost vanishingly unlikely occurence.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Norton1
in·gé·nue also in·ge·nue (zh-n)
n.
1. A naive, innocent girl or young woman.
You see these people who are telling you it doesn't matter what university you go to, they are effectively lying.
Yes, someone from Croydon College might get a job as a barrister. But it is an almost vanishingly unlikely occurence.
n.
1. A naive, innocent girl or young woman.
You see these people who are telling you it doesn't matter what university you go to, they are effectively lying.
Yes, someone from Croydon College might get a job as a barrister. But it is an almost vanishingly unlikely occurence.
Excuse me? I'm a naive, innocent young girl or woman? I'm actually a successful business woman who is a MATURE student and I have the grades to attend the tops universities, not to mention further study right up until this point.
Can I ask what you are studying and where or what you hope to? You clearly think you know far more than all of the professionals I have spoken to. Excusing them of lying? Do you have some substance behind this allegation, are you a pupil supervisor yourself?
I would also like people on here to know that I will be receiving extra tuition, whom will provide references AND an evaluation of my ability once I apply for pupilage. She is one of the most respected female Barrister, studied at Cambridge (as that seems to be of importance to you and many on here) and is a very successful Barrister, whom I regularly shadow in and out of trials at our loyal Crown Courts and the Old Bailey. So I feel this is a huge benefit when coming from a disadvantaged background.
Would you know like to rephrase that?
Original post by crystal1330
I have yet to speak to someone in the profession that has told me it is impossible.
I have yet to speak to someone in the profession that has told me it is impossible.
That's because impossible is such a strong word. I don't think anyone who says that you should go to UCL, myself included, claims that it is impossible that you will become as a barrister if you attend Croydon College.
What all of us, I think, are saying, is that you will find it many orders of magnitude more unlikely. Norton1 describes it as a 'vanishingly small possibility'. I perhaps wouldn't go so far, if you are spectacularly good, get the top first in your year at Croydon Uni, pick up mini-pupillages and do well in national mooting competitions, then I don't see why you shouldn't have a more than de minimis chance. But you will need to be the single best student that ever attended Croydon College. Your ideas about getting to the bar with a 2:1 from there are, in my opinon at least, a complete pipe-dream. If you attend UCL you have a chance of pupillage with a 2:1, and with a first, minis, national mooting success there's no reason you shouldn't be an 'odds-on' candidate.
Original post by Forum User
That's because impossible is such a strong word. I don't think anyone who says that you should go to UCL, myself included, claims that it is impossible that you will become as a barrister if you attend Croydon College.
What all of us, I think, are saying, is that you will find it many orders of magnitude more unlikely. Norton1 describes it as a 'vanishingly small possibility'. I perhaps wouldn't go so far, if you are spectacularly good, get the top first in your year at Croydon Uni, pick up mini-pupillages and do well in national mooting competitions, then I don't see why you shouldn't have a more than de minimis chance. But you will need to be the single best student that ever attended Croydon College. Your ideas about getting to the bar with a 2:1 from there are, in my opinon at least, a complete pipe-dream. If you attend UCL you have a chance of pupillage with a 2:1, and with a first, minis, national mooting success there's no reason you shouldn't be an 'odds-on' candidate.
What all of us, I think, are saying, is that you will find it many orders of magnitude more unlikely. Norton1 describes it as a 'vanishingly small possibility'. I perhaps wouldn't go so far, if you are spectacularly good, get the top first in your year at Croydon Uni, pick up mini-pupillages and do well in national mooting competitions, then I don't see why you shouldn't have a more than de minimis chance. But you will need to be the single best student that ever attended Croydon College. Your ideas about getting to the bar with a 2:1 from there are, in my opinon at least, a complete pipe-dream. If you attend UCL you have a chance of pupillage with a 2:1, and with a first, minis, national mooting success there's no reason you shouldn't be an 'odds-on' candidate.
Obviously I intend to study and achieve at a higher level than normally achieved by Croydon University. Its not like I do not have the grades to study somewhere "better" but my circumstances means its quite unrealistic to. I know that the chances are slim regardless of university, its an extremely though profession.I believe in myself more then anything and I will continue to evaluate my ability throughout the LLB degree, as I will not apply if I do not think I have what it takes. I am far too early on in the process to judge that right now.
A factor that could come into play you haven't mentioned is what practice area you want to go into.
Whilst it is true all the Bar is currently very hard to break iinto, the Criminal Bar for example is not quite as mental as ComBar or Chancery, which your interest in business suggests you may be interested in. Also, these areas probably prize pure academic achievement more than say criminal, where exceptional advocacy is key.
As shown the path to the top of commercial bar can be achieved from lower ranked unis at undergrad, such as Hull, but you would likely have to then to get onto the track of a BCL (most likely), Harvard LLM or Cam LLM, which most others aiming for that follow post Oxbridge undergrad, to be in with a chance at such sets.
Whilst it is true all the Bar is currently very hard to break iinto, the Criminal Bar for example is not quite as mental as ComBar or Chancery, which your interest in business suggests you may be interested in. Also, these areas probably prize pure academic achievement more than say criminal, where exceptional advocacy is key.
As shown the path to the top of commercial bar can be achieved from lower ranked unis at undergrad, such as Hull, but you would likely have to then to get onto the track of a BCL (most likely), Harvard LLM or Cam LLM, which most others aiming for that follow post Oxbridge undergrad, to be in with a chance at such sets.
(edited 11 years ago)
Hello,
roh,
My interest is Criminal Law. I have shadowed at trials in other areas but it is Criminal Law that I want to go into, to be more precise, defense.
roh,
My interest is Criminal Law. I have shadowed at trials in other areas but it is Criminal Law that I want to go into, to be more precise, defense.
Hello,
I also completed the Access to Medicine and I was accepted to study the foundation year at St Georges university but I had to weigh up what career I really wanted, it was though to not accept but I knew that it wasnt best suited for me, not the whole journey...I have always been interested in Law, Psychology and Medicine, I did not apply for Law because I was going through my Medical route at the time.
Hope this answers your question
I also completed the Access to Medicine and I was accepted to study the foundation year at St Georges university but I had to weigh up what career I really wanted, it was though to not accept but I knew that it wasnt best suited for me, not the whole journey...I have always been interested in Law, Psychology and Medicine, I did not apply for Law because I was going through my Medical route at the time.
Hope this answers your question
Original post by crystal1330
Excuse me? I'm a naive, innocent young girl or woman? I'm actually a successful business woman who is a MATURE student and I have the grades to attend the tops universities, not to mention further study right up until this point.
Can I ask what you are studying and where or what you hope to? You clearly think you know far more than all of the professionals I have spoken to. Excusing them of lying? Do you have some substance behind this allegation, are you a pupil supervisor yourself?
I would also like people on here to know that I will be receiving extra tuition, whom will provide references AND an evaluation of my ability once I apply for pupilage. She is one of the most respected female Barrister, studied at Cambridge (as that seems to be of importance to you and many on here) and is a very successful Barrister, whom I regularly shadow in and out of trials at our loyal Crown Courts and the Old Bailey. So I feel this is a huge benefit when coming from a disadvantaged background.
Would you know like to rephrase that?
Can I ask what you are studying and where or what you hope to? You clearly think you know far more than all of the professionals I have spoken to. Excusing them of lying? Do you have some substance behind this allegation, are you a pupil supervisor yourself?
I would also like people on here to know that I will be receiving extra tuition, whom will provide references AND an evaluation of my ability once I apply for pupilage. She is one of the most respected female Barrister, studied at Cambridge (as that seems to be of importance to you and many on here) and is a very successful Barrister, whom I regularly shadow in and out of trials at our loyal Crown Courts and the Old Bailey. So I feel this is a huge benefit when coming from a disadvantaged background.
Would you know like to rephrase that?
Your profile - a profile you set up - lists you as 20. That's young to me. Even if you are older than that, you are behaving like a child. You created this thread to confirm your bias towards studying at Croydon College.
I perhaps should have phrased that as being 'un-frank', nobody enjoys having a difficult conversation with someone about how the place they really want to go to is going to shoot them in the foot.
So no, I would not like to rephrase that other than substituting un-frank for 'effectively lying'.
I think Forum User perhaps did better than I in explaining how exceptional you would need to be, viz.
What all of us, I think, are saying, is that you will find it many orders of magnitude more unlikely. Norton1 describes it as a 'vanishingly small possibility'. I perhaps wouldn't go so far, if you are spectacularly good, get the top first in your year at Croydon Uni, pick up mini-pupillages and do well in national mooting competitions, then I don't see why you shouldn't have a more than de minimis chance.
So if you get the top first in your year and do well in national mooting competitions you may well have a chance. But realistically going to UCL would do so much of that work for you.
Original post by Norton1
Your profile - a profile you set up - lists you as 20. That's young to me. Even if you are older than that, you are behaving like a child. You created this thread to confirm your bias towards studying at Croydon College.
I perhaps should have phrased that as being 'un-frank', nobody enjoys having a difficult conversation with someone about how the place they really want to go to is going to shoot them in the foot.
So no, I would not like to rephrase that other than substituting un-frank for 'effectively lying'.
I think Forum User perhaps did better than I in explaining how exceptional you would need to be, viz.
So if you get the top first in your year and do well in national mooting competitions you may well have a chance. But realistically going to UCL would do so much of that work for you.
I perhaps should have phrased that as being 'un-frank', nobody enjoys having a difficult conversation with someone about how the place they really want to go to is going to shoot them in the foot.
So no, I would not like to rephrase that other than substituting un-frank for 'effectively lying'.
I think Forum User perhaps did better than I in explaining how exceptional you would need to be, viz.
So if you get the top first in your year and do well in national mooting competitions you may well have a chance. But realistically going to UCL would do so much of that work for you.
Im behaving like a child? But your incorrect assumptions were not childish, not to mention pointless. You seem an extremely judgmental person. My real age is not correct here, I have not edited my profile and I do not pay any attention to whats in my profile, I do not think it matters.
As I have to keep explaining. I never started this thread to ask what Uni is better. I asked if it is possible, to do well in Law, particularly as a Barrister, if you attended a university that is lower in ranks. BECAUSE I am quite set on attending Croydon, for the reasons I explained. UCL and some others are within my choices. They wouldn't be in there if I had already made up my mind. You are missing the point of my thread and then proceeding to call me childish because??? Oh right, because ive decided not to simply jump into the best unis. I personally know Barristers that attended Hertfordshire and South Bank, two were Mothers, one had little education before his degree and they are successful Barristers. I have thankfully had to opportunity to spend a lot of time with Barristers and research into their backgrounds. However, I came on here to see what else I could find out.
I appriciate that your chances are increased by attending say UCL but that was never my question.
Can I suggest something that I think would help EVERYONE studying or wishing to study LLB?
If anyone knows where to find or has already got the link to where each uni posts their post grad success rates, more particularly how many students from their university go onto getting pupilages within the five year limit? Then please could you post them here.
Someone provided the Bar Council statistics, which was very informative, however it just showed acceptance from Oxford, Cambridge and then "other universities"
Thanks
If anyone knows where to find or has already got the link to where each uni posts their post grad success rates, more particularly how many students from their university go onto getting pupilages within the five year limit? Then please could you post them here.
Someone provided the Bar Council statistics, which was very informative, however it just showed acceptance from Oxford, Cambridge and then "other universities"
Thanks
Original post by crystal1330
If anyone knows where to find or has already got the link to where each uni posts their post grad success rates, more particularly how many students from their university go onto getting pupilages within the five year limit? Then please could you post them here.
Thanks
If anyone knows where to find or has already got the link to where each uni posts their post grad success rates, more particularly how many students from their university go onto getting pupilages within the five year limit? Then please could you post them here.
Thanks
Most universities don't provide these statistics. If you email them and ask, they won't tell you.
A cynic might suggest that the reason they do not do so is because applicants would then realise that their vague blandishments about 'a great route to a career as a solicitor or at the bar' are complete rubbish.
I have found this that may be helpful.
Over 22% of gradutaes that obtained pupilage, they attended a For clarity, The Russell Group university, comprised of 20 major research-intensive universities, namely: Birmingham, Bristol, Cambridge, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Imperial College London, King’s College London, Leeds, Liverpool, LSE, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham, Oxford, Queen’s College Belfast, Sheffield, Southampton, University College London and Warwick
24% were from Oxford and Cambridge
MOST ACCEPTED HAD A
Upper Second = 243 (52.8%)
MOST ACCEPTED WERE AGED
216 pupils aged 25-34 (47%)
So, in all, if you attended UCL or Kings for example, achieved at least a upper second class and were aged about 27 at the time of applying for pupilage, you stand the best chance.
That leaves room of 11% (approx) to people from other Universities like BPP and London Met, to gain a place. Out of the 400, 11% is just 40 odd places. Considering you get an excellent result and have a lot to put on your CV with relevance, I think the chance is there. To improve your chance, go to a better uni but if you just want A chance, you can study wherever. Although, obviously if someone had terrible teaching standards I would not consider it. The profiles of the teachers at Croydon are not bad to be fair, it seems that UCL is better "connected" and as explained to me by a pupil supervisor, the Bar Council invest in Law departments at the BEST performing universities as there is not enough to go around (in his words). So they are investing in those students and therefore typically more interested in their applications.
Over 22% of gradutaes that obtained pupilage, they attended a For clarity, The Russell Group university, comprised of 20 major research-intensive universities, namely: Birmingham, Bristol, Cambridge, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Imperial College London, King’s College London, Leeds, Liverpool, LSE, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham, Oxford, Queen’s College Belfast, Sheffield, Southampton, University College London and Warwick
24% were from Oxford and Cambridge
MOST ACCEPTED HAD A
Upper Second = 243 (52.8%)
MOST ACCEPTED WERE AGED
216 pupils aged 25-34 (47%)
So, in all, if you attended UCL or Kings for example, achieved at least a upper second class and were aged about 27 at the time of applying for pupilage, you stand the best chance.
That leaves room of 11% (approx) to people from other Universities like BPP and London Met, to gain a place. Out of the 400, 11% is just 40 odd places. Considering you get an excellent result and have a lot to put on your CV with relevance, I think the chance is there. To improve your chance, go to a better uni but if you just want A chance, you can study wherever. Although, obviously if someone had terrible teaching standards I would not consider it. The profiles of the teachers at Croydon are not bad to be fair, it seems that UCL is better "connected" and as explained to me by a pupil supervisor, the Bar Council invest in Law departments at the BEST performing universities as there is not enough to go around (in his words). So they are investing in those students and therefore typically more interested in their applications.
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