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Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?
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Original post by cowsforsale
Hi.
As far as I'm aware, devo max wasn't an option because of the unionists. And even if it was offered and was chosen by the majority, westminster would still be in charge? Is it asking for much for Scotland to have more rights on the going ons in Scotland, especially when you see images like this?
To be honest, I don't think three options would have been viable anyway, how could they ever put forward full independence vs a wee bit of independence but not really.
I'm actually new to this whole thing and have been quite ignorant on the matter, so if you have any sources of worth from the oppoiste side then that'd be great. I've glanced over stuff like the McCrone report and bits of the mainstream media. Stuff like this just makes me think that independence wouldn't be that bad in all honesty.
Linky.
I'm all for getting rid of trident too.
Even a nobel winning economist think the Scottish should go independent.
And I normally don't care about neg rep, but to those that have done so, could you please explain? Despite making my mind up, I'm really keen on viewing this from all angles.
As far as I'm aware, devo max wasn't an option because of the unionists. And even if it was offered and was chosen by the majority, westminster would still be in charge? Is it asking for much for Scotland to have more rights on the going ons in Scotland, especially when you see images like this?
To be honest, I don't think three options would have been viable anyway, how could they ever put forward full independence vs a wee bit of independence but not really.
I'm actually new to this whole thing and have been quite ignorant on the matter, so if you have any sources of worth from the oppoiste side then that'd be great. I've glanced over stuff like the McCrone report and bits of the mainstream media. Stuff like this just makes me think that independence wouldn't be that bad in all honesty.
Linky.
I'm all for getting rid of trident too.
Even a nobel winning economist think the Scottish should go independent.
And I normally don't care about neg rep, but to those that have done so, could you please explain? Despite making my mind up, I'm really keen on viewing this from all angles.
an independent Scotland based on greed and trying to screw our neighbours over. The whole arguments based on we want the the oil. I still find it amazing that the SNP can claim to be socialist.
Do we claim seperation every time something good announces whilst ignoring all of the bad things? And there are many bad things. Many created by our politicians. We can't keep blaming others.
This always happens in times of economic downturn. A smooth talking politician gives the working classes a boogie man and claims that all of their problems will go away if they follow him based on nationalistic lines.
its the fact that he's trying to blame Westminster yet screw over the welsh, northern Irish and the north of England. Why? Because he's convinced that they are somehow fundamentally different to us because they were born another side of an arbitrary line on a map. That argument normally only works for the narrow minded if people and quite frankly I don't see a prosperous future for us with such an insular outlook.
devomax wasn't an option as the SNP had no mandate for it. The public consultation didn't support it and its equally unfair on other parts of the uk.
yes. We have a noble laurete saying it should happen. But it's from a noble laurete who's being paid, and let's also remember there's many noble laureates with many different opinions and Obama and the European Union have also won Nobel prizes so that badge of honour doesn't really mean as much as it used to.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Midlander
OK, well it's bigotry then. I've encountered enough from Scots telling me I murdered people in the 14th century and should be ashamed accordingly.
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
The proper terminology is xenophobia.
tell me, we're these small minded people who had never really moved around and seen the world?
For England/Wales it will be a good thing. Scotland leans left due to its higher than average receipt of state spending. If they are removed England will shift right and will have a chance to fix some of the horrendous damage that the past 50 years of "liberal creep" has wrought on this country.
Original post by STBUR
For England/Wales it will be a good thing. Scotland leans left due to its higher than average receipt of state spending. If they are removed England will shift right and will have a chance to fix some of the horrendous damage that the past 50 years of "liberal creep" has wrought on this country.
http://www.yesscotland.net/scotlands_got_what_it_takes_to_be_independent
Good for them. They need to get going then. The need to reform the political balance in the UK is urgent.
Except that these numbers have been proven to be wrong as they've fudged the figures by cherry picking information that doesn't jive.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Except that these numbers have been proven to be wrong as they've fudged the figures by cherry picking information that doesn't jive.
Well prove them wrong
Original post by Left Hand Drive
Well prove them wrong
There's enough of that in the media as you very well know.
except the figures published today quite conclusively showed that when oil is taken into account...
we received: 9.3% of public spending
we contributed: 9.9% to uk taxes
if you're going to claim the figures are fudged then you should produce figures/sources to back up what you're saying
we received: 9.3% of public spending
we contributed: 9.9% to uk taxes
if you're going to claim the figures are fudged then you should produce figures/sources to back up what you're saying
Original post by penniroyaltea
except the figures published today quite conclusively showed that when oil is taken into account...
we received: 9.3% of public spending
we contributed: 9.9% to uk taxes
if you're going to claim the figures are fudged then you should produce figures/sources to back up what you're saying
we received: 9.3% of public spending
we contributed: 9.9% to uk taxes
if you're going to claim the figures are fudged then you should produce figures/sources to back up what you're saying
Stop it! You're cherry picking!
Original post by penniroyaltea
except the figures published today quite conclusively showed that when oil is taken into account...
we received: 9.3% of public spending
we contributed: 9.9% to uk taxes
if you're going to claim the figures are fudged then you should produce figures/sources to back up what you're saying
we received: 9.3% of public spending
we contributed: 9.9% to uk taxes
if you're going to claim the figures are fudged then you should produce figures/sources to back up what you're saying
Would those be SNP published cherry picked numbers?
So what you saying is if we cut Northern Ireland and Wales free England and Scotland would be better off?
better still she we move a flat rate tax system in Scotland so we can shaft the poor as they're obviously not paying their way. We can keep even more of our money then.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by cowsforsale
Stop it! You're cherry picking!
do you care to explain how I'm cherry picking?
it's the basic essence of the report
the SNP cherry picked numbers? hmm well first off the report was not commissioned by the SNP. secondly, I'm repeating what is in the report. the figures speak for themselves.
oh, and I'm still waiting for figures. have you read the report?
oh, and I'm still waiting for figures. have you read the report?
Original post by penniroyaltea
the SNP cherry picked numbers? hmm well first off the report was not commissioned by the SNP. secondly, I'm repeating what is in the report. the figures speak for themselves.
oh, and I'm still waiting for figures. have you read the report?
oh, and I'm still waiting for figures. have you read the report?
You haven't sent me the link yet.
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scotland-public-spending-deficit-better-than-uk-1-2821963
you mean that one? So a depressed uk economy gives us advantage for one or two years. What about the rest of the time?
what I can't get my head around is why you're being so Whiney about this? Do you feel that the welsh and northern Irish are stealing from you?
nd let's be honest, the SNP have recently been caught out fiddling NHS waiting times so what makes you so sure they haven't fiddled these. After all they have moved to a very centralised system of government.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
You haven't sent me the link yet.
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scotland-public-spending-deficit-better-than-uk-1-2821963
you mean that one? So a depressed uk economy gives us advantage for one or two years. What about the rest of the time?
what I can't get my head around is why you're being so Whiney about this? Do you feel that the welsh and northern Irish are stealing from you?
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scotland-public-spending-deficit-better-than-uk-1-2821963
you mean that one? So a depressed uk economy gives us advantage for one or two years. What about the rest of the time?
what I can't get my head around is why you're being so Whiney about this? Do you feel that the welsh and northern Irish are stealing from you?
jeezo, i'm not being whiney about anything. I'm reading the report and coming to my own conclusion. You seem to like moving on to other topics on a tangent. did I say anything about the welsh or northern irish?
I'm merely discussing the figures evident in the report published today.
Well the actual report is on the Scottish Govt webpage, you can read different slants on it many places on the web.
nd let's be honest, the SNP have recently been caught out fiddling NHS waiting times so what makes you so sure they haven't fiddled these. After all they have moved to a very centralised system of government.
Again, it wasn't the SNP who commissioned the report. It was carried out by the office for national statistics
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by penniroyaltea
do you care to explain how I'm cherry picking?
Well, let's start off by asking if you would be worried that the Scottish economy derives about a fifth of its total revenue from oil, or that the Scottish share of the British EU rebate (which will disappear as far as Scotland is concerned upon independence, since it won't initially be in the EU and will have to re-join on newby's terms) is about £300 million.
it's the basic essence of the report
Hardly. The report contains about 50 spreadsheets.
You've taken one short snap shot in time. You haven't taken into account that we've already got the easy stuff out, so although NSO is still getting invested in its getting more expensive to get out. That means lower tax receipts unless Alex is planning to nationalise North Sea oil combined with the fact we've already hit peak production done time ago. All that we can do is arrest the decline.
Price per barrel is estimated to drop over the next few years. It's been artificially high due to problems in the Middle East and newer reserves are coming online elsewhere. The US has recently announced that its going to be energy self sufficient soon so there goes the biggest market.
you'll excuse me for thinking ahead into the future rather than planning around whats happening today? If there's a no vote, and that's looking likely will you be taking the moral high ground and demand holyrood doesn't take any of Lancashire's shale gas? Or is it just our stuff you don't want to share but are happy to take other people's stuff when it suits you?
Not going off on a tangent talking about Wales and Northern Ireland. The SNP is great at pointing the finger at London and the south east...... They're actually earning more than we are without oil. It's the north of England and Wales and Northern Ireland that ate benefitting from North Sea oil revenues as well as they're some of the poorer areas of the uk. So I'm asking are you happy to see those areas suffer?
Price per barrel is estimated to drop over the next few years. It's been artificially high due to problems in the Middle East and newer reserves are coming online elsewhere. The US has recently announced that its going to be energy self sufficient soon so there goes the biggest market.
you'll excuse me for thinking ahead into the future rather than planning around whats happening today? If there's a no vote, and that's looking likely will you be taking the moral high ground and demand holyrood doesn't take any of Lancashire's shale gas? Or is it just our stuff you don't want to share but are happy to take other people's stuff when it suits you?
Not going off on a tangent talking about Wales and Northern Ireland. The SNP is great at pointing the finger at London and the south east...... They're actually earning more than we are without oil. It's the north of England and Wales and Northern Ireland that ate benefitting from North Sea oil revenues as well as they're some of the poorer areas of the uk. So I'm asking are you happy to see those areas suffer?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Good bloke
Well, let's start off by asking if you would be worried that the Scottish economy derives about a fifth of its total revenue from oil, or that the Scottish share of the British EU rebate (which will disappear as far as Scotland is concerned upon independence, since it won't initially be in the EU and will have to re-join on newby's terms) is about £300 million.
Hardly. The report contains about 50 spreadsheets.
Hardly. The report contains about 50 spreadsheets.
Has he taken one spreadsheet out if fifty and not bothered looking at the bigger picture?
Original post by cowsforsale
Well that's the way I think you should live life, not just politics.
I'm getting neg reps, which means people disagree with me. If I'm wrong and you are right, then why are these people leaving me hanging in there to play with my own ignorant beliefs to the whole situation?
I'm getting neg reps, which means people disagree with me. If I'm wrong and you are right, then why are these people leaving me hanging in there to play with my own ignorant beliefs to the whole situation?
I know -but sadly people like us aren't that rational
there are so many people who would rather vote for Stalin rather than the conservatives regardless of the facts ...
Apologies, I meant that in jest 
Original post by penniroyaltea
do you care to explain how I'm cherry picking?
it's the basic essence of the report
it's the basic essence of the report
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